Game Thread: Wisconsin vs. Kentucky

[MI Nightmare]

You are missing the point. We are debating Wisconsin's performance against Kentucky versus Michigan's. Kentucky shooting better against us (not based off of percentages, which are affected by defense, but actually making a greater percentage of similar looks) has nothing to do with how we played or you played. You shooting poorly has everything to do with your performance that game.

That post was not saying Wisconsin was better than Michigan this year. Do I think we were? Yes. Have I said it in other posts? Sure. But the 20 point win line deals directly with how we played versus Kentucky and how you did. And you actually missed the shots. It's not a controlled variable. It's just a result.

It's a "what if" statement, the same as mine, anyway you slice it. UK beating Michigan by 20 had UK played them the same way they played Wisconsin is an invalid point because Michigan and Wisconsin are simply two different teams. Your statement is overloaded with variables and "what ifs." Metrics don't work in projecting exact wins and losses, you have to play the game. Anything short or beyond is an excuse. My point is to illustrate the ridiculousness in stating possible outcomes had this or that happened because it's merely assumption.

The exact same Kentucky team played Michigan a week ago and Michigan played them as well as Wisconsin with extremely similar outcomes. I don't really give a shit who's better on paper or how one thinks the game would go down had x, y, or z happened (there's no proof in that). There were no what ifs, both games actually played out, and Kentucky hit the biggest shots to win the games.

 

[Codaxx]

Shooting 50% against contested shots, even if they were closer to the hoop, is much better shooting than making 53% of open shots. I posted the UK-UM highlights. Count the open shots. You'll see more in the little snippet than there was all of last night.

Everything was right around the hoop. UK's ability to play over Wisky's big men was apparent. UK missed a lot of open jumpers vs Wisky. They drained open looks from the outside vs Michigan. I didn't think Wisky played a great game defensively. That is pretty obvious by the 5 3pters attempted. Neither team was capable of stopping UK in the paint without doubling. Michigan did a better job in that area. They forced UK to make outside shots. UK made them and the inside opened up. Wisconsin never took the paint away from UK.

 

[SEC Official]

It is sad that we finally have a functioning College Basketball forum and it is overrun by the worst posters on the fucking site.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this.

I find that posting during the games everyone is great... and most posters who are on regularly with few exceptions are great.

As soon as the game ends, the trolls who weren't posting most of the game hop on and incite things with idiotic post... which is why I generally stop posting shortly after the game and leave it with a "congrat to (insert team here)" and leave the thread for good because I know it is getting ready to break down.

Basketball is not a sport where you can really rank a team #1.... or #5 for that matter. Matchups, injuries, getting hot at the right time, off shooting nights, etc. can all lead to upsets on any given night (or string of nights). To sit here and argue non-stop about what could have been or should have been is a waste of time.

But in general, I find most posters on the site who are regulars to be good people. But I also know when to ignore select posters (even if they are of my own fan base) and ignore haters responding to them.

 

[LoftonPack80]

Shooting 50% against contested shots, even if they were closer to the hoop, is much better shooting than making 53% of open shots. I posted the UK-UM highlights. Count the open shots. You'll see more in the little snippet than there were all of last night.[/QUOTE

Please share your game tape so we can breakdown every single shot from both games. Seriously you are now contesting good shots and bad shots? They made the same number of shots with the same number of attempts and shot better from 3 against Michigan than Wisconsin. This is just a completely dumb argument. If you have to reach to this point to make your asinine argument that Wisconsin is so much better then Michigan then you just prove the point. They are damn near identical teams. I guess I will make the argument that since we lost on a shot with 2.3 seconds and you lost on a shot with 5.7 seconds left we must be those 3.4 seconds better than you. That make just as much sense to me as anything you are trying to convince yourself into believing.

 

[MI Nightmare]

The whole point of this bullshit is "what if." F that noise. The real statement here is game over, Kentucky wins again.

 

[SEC Official]

And again, from an objective poster... the UK vs. Wisky game was a coin flip.

Give UK another 2 years of experience and I say they rout Wiksy, but they are young and make a lot of mistakes... so the game last night was a coin flip.

UK made plenty of mistakes. Wisky made mistakes and in my opinion allowing Token to take the last shot as a jump shot was one of them (go to the bucket and make them play you or kick to a real shooter).

But hey, that is basketball... but those were two evenly matched teams.

 

[Smart]

1. Just so we are clear on this....IF Kentucky shot as well against Michigan as they did against Wisconsin its a blowout but then the IF we shot like we do all year we win argument is disputed because we didn't. So your IF argument is valid and the Michigan fans IF argument is mute. Ok got you now.

2. Bottom line....BOTH teams ran into a buzzsaw that is Kentucky right now. BOTH teams took them to the wire. BOTH teams lost on an out of this world 3 pointer from Harrison.
The only difference I see here is the Michigan fans for the most part have no shame in the loss and are not coming up with this reason or that reason to justify the loss. I'm not. I see most of the Badger fans are making good points and being classy. You on the other hand are the stereotypical Badger fan that has out of this world thoughts on your team. They are so much better than everybody, we deserved that win, we are great, Bo is great blah blah blah. While some of that may be true, your homerism in your posts makes you look like an ass. Man up say you got beat by a better team because you did and quit trying to justify your place in the college basketball landscape. Wisconsin is a good team we all know it but don't try to say YOUR team is that much better then the 2 other great teams Kentucky just beat in identical fashion because of what you view from your homer chair as a better effort from your team.

1. Did you fail seventh-grade science? When you compare two performances, you have to control the variables, so that the only difference between the two sides is the thing we are comparing. In this case, it is Michigan's performance against Kentucky and Wisconsin's performance against Kentucky. Kentucky's shooting (not by percentage, but their actual shooting) is an outside variable...it has nothing to do with Michigan's performance or our performance. Michigan's shooting isn't an outside variable. It directly deals with how you actually performed.

It just blows my mind that somebody could graduate middle school, much less presumably high school or college, and not understand that difference. That's literally the single most important lesson from science classes between the 4th and 8th grade.

2. Part of this is right. I'm saying we played better in our loss than you did. I wasn't the first, or even the second, person in that debate. If you have a problem with that, or think its not classy to respond to a poster who I disagree with berating my team after a tough loss, fine. I disagree, but it's not absurd.

Where you are flat out wrong is implying I am in any way dissing Kentucky. My point is that we fucking brought it last night, especially on offense. That's not saying I think we are the best team ever, that's saying we played really well last night. I've said multiple times we played atypically well offensively, which just proves this. They needed to bring their A-game and they did. I don't need to defend our spot on the CBB landscape. I know the team we had this year, and I know they all return besides Brust with one of the best player development coaches in America.

 

[LoftonPack80]

It's a "what if" statement, the same as mine, anyway you slice it. UK beating Michigan by 20 had UK played them the same way they played Wisconsin is an invalid point because Michigan and Wisconsin are simply two different teams. Your statement is overloaded with variables and "what ifs." Metrics don't work in projecting exact wins and losses, you have to play the game. Anything short or beyond is an excuse. My point is to illustrate the ridiculousness in stating possible outcomes had this or that happened because it's merely assumption.

The exact same Kentucky team played Michigan a week ago and Michigan played them as well as Wisconsin with extremely similar outcomes. I don't really give a shit who's better on paper or how one thinks the game would go down had x, y, or z happened (there's no proof in that). There were no what ifs, both games actually played out, and Kentucky hit the biggest shots to win the games.

I couldn't say it any better then this so here you go

 

[Smart]

This thread is amazing. Of course a comparison of two teams is going to need "what-ifs." It's the only way to properly compare teams. But that's fine. If you don't want to properly compare teams, and you only want to go based on results, that would be simplistic but not hypocritical.

Where the thread reaches amazing levels of idiocy is when you realize that you were the very same people who argued that IT DIDN'T MATTER THAT BO RYAN HAD LOST A CLOSE GAME TO THE EVENTUAL NATIONAL CHAMPIONS IN 2005. All that matters was he had lost in the Elite Eight, and Beilein had made a Final Four. This shows Beilein is better.

But now, the two sides have flipped. In real life, Bo made the fucking Final Four. And in real life, Beilein didn't. So your argument is now "well, we played them tightly just like you, so you have no business saying Wisconsin is better." It's such blatant, pathetic hypocrisy. Do circumstances matter or not? Your answer seems to be "only results matter when that helps Beilein, but circumstances come in if the circumstances favor Beilein."

But I'm the homer. Got it.

 

[jonvi]

If Syracuse had played either of these teams, SU would have kicked their ass.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

Now you are gonna say that Wisconsin was better than Illinois in 2005. Illinois only lost 1 regular season game all year, and went to the Title Game vs UNC where they had a chance to take the lead with 15 seconds left but Luther Head missed a wide open 3 that he normally hits.

Yikes.

 

[Moab]

This thread is amazing. Of course a comparison of two teams is going to need "what-ifs." It's the only way to properly compare teams. But that's fine. If you don't want to properly compare teams, and you only want to go based on results, that would be simplistic but not hypocritical.

Where the thread reaches amazing levels of idiocy is when you realize that you were the very same people who argued that IT DIDN'T MATTER THAT BO RYAN HAD LOST A CLOSE GAME TO THE EVENTUAL NATIONAL CHAMPIONS IN 2005. All that matters was he had lost in the Elite Eight, and Beilein had made a Final Four. This shows Beilein is better.

But now, the two sides have flipped. In real life, Bo made the fucking Final Four. And in real life, Beilein didn't. So your argument is now "well, we played them tightly just like you, so you have no business saying Wisconsin is better." It's such blatant, pathetic hypocrisy. Do circumstances matter or not? Your answer seems to be "only results matter when that helps Beilein, but circumstances come in if the circumstances favor Beilein."

But I'm the homer. Got it.

There isn't a poster here that isn't a homer to some degree. You are, however, probably not the most intelligent person for thinking that they can somehow win an internet argument, and your propensity to escalate them to immense proportions is comical. Do you wonder why they continue to throw their bait in the water?

Relax, move on and it starts over next year.

One final thing, no more of the stupid 40-0 talk, just stop. UW fans are not Kentucky fans, no need to blow anything out of proportion....

 

[MI Nightmare]

Now you are gonna say that Wisconsin was better than Illinois in 2005. Illinois only lost 1 regular season game all year, and went to the Title Game vs UNC where they had a chance to take the lead with 15 seconds left but Luther Head missed a wide open 3 that he normally hits.

Yikes.

That '04-05 Illinois team were some badass mofos.

 

[dcZONAfan]

Wisky hit right around their average from 3. Not sure how anyone could watch them game and say Wisky could have won by20. Harrison has hit that shot 3 games in a row. The game winner vs Wisconsin being the easiest of the 3. 19-20 at FT kept it very tight. Key stats were 2-5 from 3 for UK. They just did not settle for 3s. 8 vs4 in turnover game. Amazing that UK only turned it over 4 times

he meant against Arizona. The best defense in the country made a team have a tough day offensively and, naturally, it is because that team played poorly. The king of basketball has spoken, we shall all bow down before him and agree with his spot-on assessment of the Arizona Wildcats!

hahahaha at least we didn't lose to a 7-seed

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Final game will take a backseat to those two ballgames yesterday...OUTFUCKINGSTANDING!

 

[dcZONAfan]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this.

I find that posting during the games everyone is great... and most posters who are on regularly with few exceptions are great.

As soon as the game ends, the trolls who weren't posting most of the game hop on and incite things with idiotic post... which is why I generally stop posting shortly after the game and leave it with a "congrat to (insert team here)" and leave the thread for good because I know it is getting ready to break down.

Basketball is not a sport where you can really rank a team #1.... or #5 for that matter. Matchups, injuries, getting hot at the right time, off shooting nights, etc. can all lead to upsets on any given night (or string of nights). To sit here and argue non-stop about what could have been or should have been is a waste of time.

But in general, I find most posters on the site who are regulars to be good people. But I also know when to ignore select posters (even if they are of my own fan base) and ignore haters responding to them.

hahahaha then i guess you don't read about half my posts since I spend so much time telling Runeman how awful his posts are, and then responding to him claiming that pick 'em is the be-all-end-all of college basketball knowledge

 

[dcZONAfan]

If Syracuse had played either of these teams, SU would have kicked their ass.

Same with Arizona

 

[TangoBlue]

Same with Arizona

Both ya mf'ers {jonvi and dcZONA}have a good sense of humor. good at ya!

There are a fair number of teams that I wish UK would play every year. Chief among them are Duke, Syracuse and Arizona. Talk about helping your strength of schedule.... You guys got any thoughts on that?

We are going to play UCLA in the next year or two though....I think some kind of tourney...alternating sites or something,

 

[dcZONAfan]

Both ya mf'ers {jonvi and dcZONA}have a good sense of humor. good at ya!

There are a fair number of teams that I wish UK would play every year. Chief among them are Duke, Syracuse and Arizona. Talk about helping your strength of schedule.... You guys got any thoughts on that?

We are going to play UCLA in the next year or two though....I think some kind of tourney...alternating sites or something,

We would fucking LOVE that. But Sean Miller and Cal are good friends and won't be scheduling home and home series anytime soon.

SM has done a pretty good job adding home and home vs Michigan, home and home vs Gonzaga, the series against SDSU and UNLV, etc...

we will never play Duke as Coach K doesn't schedule shit like that. Izzo certainly would, he ain't scurred of anyone. Good luck getting Jimmy B to leave NY in the nonconference though

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

We would fucking LOVE that. But Sean Miller and Cal are good friends and won't be scheduling home and home series anytime soon.

SM has done a pretty good job adding home and home vs Michigan, home and home vs Gonzaga, the series against SDSU and UNLV, etc...

we will never play Duke as Coach K doesn't schedule shit like that. Izzo certainly would, he ain't scurred of anyone. Good luck getting Jimmy B to leave NY in the nonconference though

Michigan plays at Arizona next year? WOW