Why is Ichiro considered automatic for HOF?

[msgkings322]

Makes a killer General Tsos

If you're gonna be a racist you gotta at least get the reference right. He's not Chinese dummy.

 

[wazzu31]

His run support hasn't been all that bad when you look through his career....sure, there were some years where he got no run support (ie - when he won 13 games with a low 2 ERA), but on the whole the notion of him getting poor run support is a bit exaggerated...

2006 - run support of 4.49
2007 - 5.30
2009 - 4.37
2014 - 4.27
2015 - 4.10
2016 - 4.29
2017 - 5.58

So it's not like you can speculate he'd have 50+ more wins (or some number to make him easily HOF worthy) if he gotten decent run support in the years where he didn't get good run support....


Not to mention, on the whole, he generally doesn't pitch well in games he doesn't win (this holds true for most starters)....Felix has a 4.54 career ERA and 1.41 WHIP in games he hasn't won.

Your numbers are averages which doesn't tell the whole story of how piss poor his offenses were, an 8 run production in a 3 game stretch isn't terrible except when 2 of the games are 1-0 or a ND. I guess we can agree to disagree but from 07-14 he was an easily 20 game winner on just a below average offense.

 

[wazzu31]

2 time batting champ
7 times led the league in hits
10 gold gloves
503 stolen bases
3000 hits
canon for an arm
Rookie of the Year

That's a Hall of Famer

It's been said in this thread a few times but dude was going on 28 when he came over. His production is actually amazing considering a player who uses speed and hand eye coordination as his main offensive weapon usually suck mid 30's on. HOF player, first rate jackass of a teammate until he became a role player though.

 

[The Oldtimer]

3000 hits. Ticket punched.

Pretty much.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Your numbers are averages which doesn't tell the whole story of how piss poor his offenses were, an 8 run production in a 3 game stretch isn't terrible except when 2 of the games are 1-0 or a ND. I guess we can agree to disagree but from 07-14 he was an easily 20 game winner on just a below average offense.

In that 8 season stretch, just 3x did Felix finish better than 9th in the AL in ERA+, so I don't know how you can say he was easily good enough to be a 20 game winner throughout that stretch when he had some seasons with a mid-3s or near 4 ERA (unless you think 10 guys in each league are worthy of winning 20 games).

 

[PolarVortex]

The 2018 version of Ichiro seems to be a guy who is humble and appreciative, and I'm glad to see that he has transformed into a more team-friendly presence in the clubhouse. But, in his last five years with the Mariners before being traded to the Yankees, other than 2009 when Griffey returned, Ichiro was unapproachable by both the media and players, and publicly threatened the organization against lowballing him during contract negotiations.

I haven't forgotten that version of Ichiro when his personal achievement was more important to him than team success, showing great reluctance to move to CF and/or hit third in the batting order. Ichiro could have been an 85-100 RBI guy if he had embraced an RBI spot in the lineup but he publicly questioned any thought about hitting him there.

So, yeah, he's a HOFer. I don't know about first ballot. I guess if Gwynn got in on his first ballot then Ichiro probably should too, but he will never be among my all time favorite Mariners.

 

[StanMarsh51]

The 2018 version of Ichiro seems to be a guy who is humble and appreciative, and I'm glad to see that he has transformed into a more team-friendly presence in the clubhouse..

You would think, he needs to be a 'clubhouse leader' to get a job, because his play isn't good enough to be on any Major League team.

 

[DragonfromTO]

If you're gonna be a racist you gotta at least get the reference right. He's not Chinese dummy.

Well, if we're really gonna get technical about it neither is General Tso's Chicken

 

[ElTexan]

he was one of the better players in Ichiro's first ten seasons make him a HOFer, even if his last 7-8 seasons dragged those numbers down.

2001-2012: 113 OPS+
2011-2017: 114 OPS+ Dexter Fowler

 

[navamind]

2001-2012: 113 OPS+
2011-2017: 114 OPS+ Dexter Fowler

I've said before that I think Ichiro was a pretty overrated hitter, but Fowler wasn't nearly the defender or baserunner that Ichiro was. Ichiro was worth 54.7 WAR in his first ten seasons whereas Fowler was worth 16.7 from 2011-17. Ichrio stole 289 more bases over that span and at a much better success rate (69.6% for Fowler vs 81.3% for Ichiro). Ichiro hit into only 7 more double plays despite having ~3500 more PA. As for defense, Rfield has Fowler at -70 runs while it has Ichiro at +94.

 

[navamind]

4th most WAR in baseball from 2001-10 behind three inner-circle HOFers, one arguably the greatest player ever (he has more WAR than Ichiro despite having 745 fewer games!)

Major League Leaderboards » 2010 » Batters » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[Chewbaccer]

If you're gonna be a racist you gotta at least get the reference right. He's not Chinese dummy.

The douche that uses a gif as an avatar crying about a quasi offensive comment.

LOL

 

[gohusk]

Gold gloves are garbage...look at Hosmer. One cumulative stat...3K hits over 18 years. Pujols is about to push thru 3K, but he also has a 385 OBP and 950 OPS 600 HR's...that's HOF. Not just pretty good

Yeah, but his defense wasn't garbage. If the player that should have won the award did win the award it would still be him.

 

[cezero]

great premise for a thread

i love the hoop

 

[navamind]

I do think Gold Gloves are dumb, but we're talking about a guy that rated as a well above average/elite defender by most metrics and is widely viewed as an elite defender via the eye test.

UZR: 135.6
UZR/150: 9.6
DRS: +101
Plus/Minus: +78
Total Zone: +133

Doesn't seem like the best thread to make that argument.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I do think Gold Gloves are dumb, but we're talking about a guy that rated as a well above average/elite defender by most metrics and is widely viewed as an elite defender via the eye test.

UZR: 135.6
UZR/150: 9.6
DRS: +101
Plus/Minus: +78
Total Zone: +133

Doesn't seem like the best thread to make that argument.

Also you have to take into consideration that most outfielders have their best years defensively in their mid to early 20s. Ichiro broke into MLB at 27. Assuming those are his career numbers, that also includes when he was playing in the outfield well past his 40s when he was no longer the defender he used to be.

 

[rightstuff]

In my lifetime:

Carew, Boggs, and Gwynn

Between the deadball era and my birth

1. Steve Nash* .9043
2. Mark Price .9039
3. Stephen Curry .9033
4. Rick Barry* .8998
5. Peja Stojakovic .8948
6. Chauncey Billups .8940

Oh, Ray Allen is #7.

These are ALL Great Players. Baseball or Basketball.


WHY discredit Ichiro for ONLY being TOP 4 All-Time as a singles hitter?
IFF, Ichiro had entered MLB at 22 or 23, rather than 27, this argument would be mute.

 

[obxyankeefan]

1. Steve Nash* .9043
2. Mark Price .9039
3. Stephen Curry .9033
4. Rick Barry* .8998
5. Peja Stojakovic .8948
6. Chauncey Billups .8940

Oh, Ray Allen is #7.

These are ALL Great Players. Baseball or Basketball.


WHY discredit Ichiro for ONLY being TOP 4 All-Time as a singles hitter?
IFF, Ichiro had entered MLB at 22 or 23, rather than 27, this argument would be mute.

Because you are reading my post wrong. I was not trying to discredit Ichiro in any way. I was discrediting the other guys post that he was the best singles hitter since the deadball era.

I have been on the side that Ichiro deserves to be in the HOF.

 

[rightstuff]

so ignore his OBP? 355 is HOF??? Again, he has the worst OBP of any hitter with 3000 hits and all he did was slap singles...

Just stop.......you are wrong. Ichiro WILL be a 1st Ballot HOF.

Did you EVER watch him take BP?
Could Ichiro have won a HR hitting contest? If you say NO, then you NEVER saw him in BP. Man could stroke.

 

[rightstuff]

Because you are reading my post wrong. I was not trying to discredit Ichiro in any way. I was discrediting the other guys post that he was the best singles hitter since the deadball era.

I have been on the side that Ichiro deserves to be in the HOF.

Sorry man, the response was mostly against scouty.
I saw ALL those guys play, LIVE, multiple times.
My point was, ALL great hitters.

Ichiro is HOF, with ZERO doubt. ZERO.