Who's legacy takes the biggest hit after losing this final?

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I mean yeah but I don't see how Lebron legacy is taking any hit after this. Only way that happens if he plays how he did in the 2011 finals. If he plays how he did in all of the finals since 2012 then I don't see his legacy taking any hit

I agree in theory, and we've had this discussion before.
Short term people will remember how good the Warriors are (if they win).
Long term people see 3-5, or whatever he ends up at.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

You know how good this team would be without Lebron...welll bottom of the East adding Love so probably middle of the pack.

When Lebron is on the court the Csvs outscore their opponent by 8 points or so, when he is off the court they get outscored by 8. This is far from a Superteam but they are facing a Superteam. You are the guy that just looks a stats and W's and L's. Your legacy cant take a hit if you werent the favorite and it isnt close either.

Disagree.
With what the Cavs have talent wise combined with what they cost, they need to be super and win it all.
Maybe the Cavs have equal or better assets, but the Warriors are better coached and trained?
Forget the regular season. Obviously the Warriors cared more.
It's championship or bust moving forward.

 

[bksballer89]

Disagree.
With what the Cavs have talent wise combined with what they cost, they need to be super and win it all.
Maybe the Cavs have equal or better assets, but the Warriors are better coached and trained?
Forget the regular season. Obviously the Warriors cared more.
It's championship or bust moving forward.

Yeah Cavs are title or bust until Lebron retires.

 

[bksballer89]

IMO Steph Curry legacy probably takes the biggest if his team does not win the title

 

[Shanemansj13]

Disagree.
With what the Cavs have talent wise combined with what they cost, they need to be super and win it all.
Maybe the Cavs have equal or better assets, but the Warriors are better coached and trained?
Forget the regular season. Obviously the Warriors cared more.
It's championship or bust moving forward.

They have talent no doubt but without Lebron they probably dont make the playoffs in the East even. I mean you really think they are better than an 8 seed Bulls or 8 seed Pacers without Lebron....no chance in hell

 

[Shanemansj13]

IMO Steph Curry legacy probably takes the biggest if his team does not win the title

I still think KD's does. KD of he wins a title could be getting closer to the top 10 (I have no idea where I would rate him). Plus the fact he went to the Warriors after losin to the is always going to be a topic.

 

[tlance]

Yeah Cavs are title or bust until Lebron retires.

Or changes teams....

Don't see it any time soon, but don't be surprised if he does not retire a Cavalier.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

They have talent no doubt but without Lebron they probably dont make the playoffs in the East even. I mean you really think they are better than an 8 seed Bulls or 8 seed Pacers without Lebron....no chance in hell

With 10 being the highest give what number you think is fair to both teams top 4 players.
Example. James 10 Durant ?

 

[Kold]

Oh the answer is CLEARLY KD(also Curry should be in this too)....but make no mistake about it, Lebron will and deserves to get this work if the Cavs lose. Don't matter that he has 3 titles because Kobe had 3 chips, lost Bynum/Ariza, got beat by a superteam, and still got KILLED for it. Fair or not, it's just the way it goes when you're an Elite mega star

 

[Kold]

And if I may add to that, as I pointed out earlier with Lebron....if you use that excuse for Lebron, you might as well say KD is playing with house money because it's tough to win in the first year with a superteam

 

[larryjohn]

And if I may add to that, as I pointed out earlier with Lebron....if you use that excuse for Lebron, you might as well say KD is playing with house money because it's tough to win in the first year with a superteam

You do know he joined the team which won the most regular season games in NBA history -- right ?

Imagine if Hakeem joined the Bulls in the mid-90s after their >70 win season. Would we say "Hakeem ... it is really tough to win the first year with a superteam?"

 

[DorianRo]

What happens after this final when one of them loses?


Durant- Does he bail out of GS and join another superteam ? This is a championship or bust year for Durant.

Lebron- Does he bail out Cleveland once again or whine all summer for help again like he did this year? Does he force Love out?

People focused on what happens if both players win and what it will for them,. But what if they lose. Bottom line for both teams, its championship or BUST for either guy. Considering the salary the Cavs have, and all the talent and all the talent GS has.

How much more money can the Cavs throw at guys? They got the highest payroll in the league How much can GS add to their already stacked team?

 

[tlance]

What happens after this final when one of them loses?


Durant- Does he bail out of GS and join another superteam ? This is a championship or bust year for Durant.

Lebron- Does he bail out Cleveland once again or whine all summer for help again like he did this year? Does he force Love out?

People focused on what happens if both players win and what it will for them,. But what if they lose. Bottom line for both teams, its championship or BUST for either guy. Considering the salary the Cavs have, and all the talent and all the talent GS has.

How much more money can the Cavs throw at guys? They got the highest payroll in the league How much can GS add to their already stacked team?

It is championship or bust.

But, that doesn't mean anything drastic happens if either loses. It is the Cavs and Warriors world for the foreseeable future. Who is either player going to "jump to" to improve their chances?

San Antonio would literally be the only team that would give LBJ a better shot at the Warriors than his current squad. He isn't leaving Cleveland for slightly better odds. He will only leave Cleveland if and when their window to contend closes.

 

[Kold]

You do know he joined the team which won the most regular season games in NBA history -- right ?

Imagine if Hakeem joined the Bulls in the mid-90s after their >70 win season. Would we say "Hakeem ... it is really tough to win the first year with a superteam?"

No, that's exactly my point. If some are saying well Lebron can't be criticized if they lose, after the context I gave with Kobe...then those same people, might as well let Durant slide for the 1st year of a superteam excuse.

I personally think that there's no bus big enough, that we can't throw KD under if they lose, and I also think that Lebron deserves his fair share of criticism if the Cavs lose.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

With 10 being the highest give what number you think is fair to both teams top 4 players.
Example. James 10 Durant ?

@Shanemansj13 ??
Anyone else?

 

[tlance]

@Shanemansj13 ??
Anyone else?

For me, 10 equals the best player and 1 is replacement level. Anything above 1 is above average.

James: 10
Irving: 7
Love: 6
Smith: 3

Durant: 9.5
Curry: 9
Draymond: 7
Klay: 7

 

[Ickey Shuffle]

It is all about Durant. It hasn't been anything else otherwise this season.

 

[Ickey Shuffle]

@Shanemansj13 ??
Anyone else?

LeBron: 10
Irving: 8
Love: 5
Smith: 3

Durant: 10
Curry: 10
Draymond: 9
Klay: 9

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

For me, 10 equals the best player and 1 is replacement level. Anything above 1 is above average.

James: 10
Irving: 7
Love: 6
Smith: 3

Durant: 9.5
Curry: 9
Draymond: 7
Klay: 7

I guess I should have posted my list.

James 10
Irving 7.5
Love 7
Tristans importance in this series 6.5


Durant 9.5
Curry 9
Draymond 8.5
Klay 7.5



Cavs 31 Warriors 34.5


Most would agree Warriors deserve to be favorites.
Plus, they decided to value HCA.
That being said, if Cavs lose, the season is a bust.
Both teams healthy.
No excuses accepted either way as of now.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think Durant's legacy takes the bigger hit. We're already used to Lebron losing in the finals.

Seriously though, Durant will take the bigger hit for 2 reasons:

1.) Whether or not one has a problem with him leaving OKC for GSW (I don't), the fact is, many consider him the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league and he went to a 73 win team. To be THAT player and jump to THAT team, you have to bring home the trophy.

2.) It will feed the "KD can't beat Lebron" narrative.

Having said that, both are "super teams" and both teams (and players) are championship or bust. Losing won't look good for either of them. But it'll look a bit worse for KD.