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What the pros think about superstars ring chasing

trojanfan12

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Wiggy might be homer of the year.

But he happens to be right on this one. I think even if you take out the history of the city and the back story, it is still up there as one of the greatest upsets in Finals history and one of the best individual performances of all time.

Still doesn't make it any more "special" than any other title anywhere except Cleveland. I'd say Dirk and the Mavs ranks pretty close as far as upsets too.
 

DorianRo

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Its been going on since the 2000s. Mainly Payton/Malone jumping ship to the Lakers. Then Payton and others bouncing to the Heat in 2006.. Lebron went big time overboard in Miami and Cleveland. Now everyone is taking the bitch way out and we have a team in GS that were already dominant be even MORE dominant next season.

I don't mind stacked teams if there at least 4-5 stacked teams. But we don't have that in the NBA. We have the Warriors then whatever BITCH SUperTeam Le3for9 tries to create.

These rings don't mean shit and Carry LITTLE weight. Durant/Lebron (the two best players in the world) have also had far and away the most SUPPORTING HELP over anyone since this pussy shit began in 2010 with Lebron.

Ive always said if DurCant/Le3for9 are "so good" why have they needed 3x the help to win anything compared to anyone else?

They're all bitcehs taking the easy way out these days instead of EARNING something. But Le3-6 started it all for the modern era. So most of the blame goes to him.

This is why most people will NEVER put guys like KD/Lebron up there with the past all time great elites. They don't deserve to be ranked among them because of what they pulled.

In the end it hurts their legacies. No doubt about it
 
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tlance

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Still doesn't make it any more "special" than any other title anywhere except Cleveland. I'd say Dirk and the Mavs ranks pretty close as far as upsets too.

As far as upsets?

Sure.

As far as individual performance in leading their team to an upset?

In 2016, LeBron averaged 29.7, 11.3 boards, 8.9 assists, 2.6 steals, 2.3 blocks, shot 49.4% from the field and 37.2% from 3.

Dirk, on the other hand, averaged 26.0, 9.7 boards, 2.0 assists, .7 steals and .7 blocks on 41.6% from the field and 36.8% from 3.

That is even before we get to the down 3-1 against a 73 win team and the whole Cleveland narrative.

The Mavericks upset was impressive, but when we are talking about individual achievement in route to the upset win, it isn't even in the ballpark of being close.
 

Heatles84

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I would never take anything away from Dirk and what Dallas accomplished that year. It was awesome.

I just think LeBron beating the 73 win Warriors (even with their injuries, suspensions, etc.) was slightly more awesome.

I don't.

In terms of comparable star power, both teams were equal when you factor in all stars (3 vs 3).

Dirk was the lone all star on his team. What Dirk did was more impressive to be quite honest.

Granted, Golden State was the deeper team than Cleveland.
 

tlance

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I don't.

In terms of comparable star power, both teams were equal when you factor in all stars (3 vs 3).

Dirk was the lone all star on his team. What Dirk did was more impressive to be quite honest.

Granted, Golden State was the deeper team than Cleveland.

Look at the numbers man.

Dirk may have been the lone allstar, but it isn't like he carried the Mavs on his back the way LeBron carried Cleveland. Yeah, LeBron had a lot of help too, but I don't see how anybody can say Dirk's individual play in 2011 was anywhere close to LeBron's.

You could make a case for the Mavs team upset being more impressive. That is subjective and I won't athlete that. Saying Dirk was more impressive just isn't supported by the numbers. Because again, they aren't close.
 

trojanfan12

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As far as upsets?

Sure.

As far as individual performance in leading their team to an upset?

In 2016, LeBron averaged 29.7, 11.3 boards, 8.9 assists, 2.6 steals, 2.3 blocks, shot 49.4% from the field and 37.2% from 3.

Dirk, on the other hand, averaged 26.0, 9.7 boards, 2.0 assists, .7 steals and .7 blocks on 41.6% from the field and 36.8% from 3.

That is even before we get to the down 3-1 against a 73 win team and the whole Cleveland narrative.

The Mavericks upset was impressive, but when we are talking about individual achievement in route to the upset win, it isn't even in the ballpark of being close.

At what point did I say Dirk was more impressive. I said the Mavs upset ranks right there with the Cavs upset.

Individual performance has nothing to do with what made either upset special, imo. The fact that they were both enormous upsets and both were there teams first, and so far only, titles is what made them special.
 

tlance

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At what point did I say Dirk was more impressive. I said the Mavs upset ranks right there with the Cavs upset.

Individual performance has nothing to do with what made either upset special, imo. The fact that they were both enormous upsets and both were there teams first, and so far only, titles is what made them special.

I agree with that.

@Heatles84 said what Dirk did was more impressive than what LeBron dis. Which is ridiculous to me.
 

Heatles84

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I agree with that.

@Heatles84 said what Dirk did was more impressive than what LeBron dis. Which is ridiculous to me.

I meant in respect to what Dirk had compared to the team he beat. I also find the notion that certain rings are valued more than others is ridiculous as well. I guess Lebron has MJ beat by ring count then since that one in '16 is equal to like 5 titles based on the opinion of some around here. Shit's just strange to me.
 

Heatles84

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I meant in respect to what Dirk had compared to the team he beat. The Mavs were also underdogs against Miami in 2011, but he and the Mavs got it done.

I also find the notion that certain rings are valued more than others is ridiculous as well. I guess Lebron has MJ beat by ring count then since that one in '16 is equal to like 5 titles based on the opinion of some around here. Shit's just strange to me.
 

tlance

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I meant in respect to what Dirk had compared to the team he beat. I also find the notion that certain rings are valued more than others is ridiculous as well. I guess Lebron has MJ beat by ring count then since that one in '16 is equal to like 5 titles based on the opinion of some around here. Shit's just strange to me.

That is why I think the whole ring count thing is so stupid. Because "Dirk" didn't beat Miami. The Dallas Mavericks did.

Same with LeBron and MJ.

Championships are a very important part of a player's resume in all time great debates, but that is all they should be. There are many other factors to consider.
 

Heatles84

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That is why I think the whole ring count thing is so stupid. Because "Dirk" didn't beat Miami. The Dallas Mavericks did.

Same with LeBron and MJ.

Championships are a very important part of a player's resume in all time great debates, but that is all they should be. There are many other factors to consider.

But all of the players mentioned are the catalysts behind their teams winning. So taking the ring argument as the sole reason to define why said player is inaccurate. But including it along with context is more than suitable.
 

tlance

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But all of the players mentioned are the catalysts behind their teams winning. So taking the ring argument as the sole reason to define why said player is inaccurate. But including it along with context is more than suitable.

Sure.

BUt again, there is a lot more to the equation. Not all catalysts have the same level challenges facing them.

Hypothetically, had LeBron played his entire career in Cleveland, he might not have ever won. But would that make him any less great? He wouldn't be in the GOAT conversation because his resume wouldn't be as strong, that much is sure, but it wouldn't change how good he actually is as a player.
 
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