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Urban Meyer: 'Penn State deserved to be in playoff'

4down20

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The first year the playoff was implemented I heard a lot of talk about how it wasn't necessary because the top two teams were almost always really clear. That year the 4 seed won the title. Yeah, most of the time the 1 and 2 seeds will meet in the championship game, that's why they're seeded 1 and 2. But the committee and voters can get stuff wrong like they did three years ago with Ohio St.

Ohio St was the hot team and they made the most of it. By this logic, does this mean everytime we expand and the last place seed wins, it's justification for even more expansion?
 

TheRobotDevil

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We're not talking about making the P5 autobids the only way into the playoff. If you have at-large spots you still have to schedule well out of conference to get considered for that at-large if you don't win your conference. You could also argue that teams will still schedule well out of conference because they know they're not automatically eliminated from the playoff if they lose more than 1 game. I would think most programs would want to avoid playing three garbage teams that present no challenge before they go into conference play.

Not that I don't understand your argument, that's for sure a possible mindset some teams might have. But it seems like a bad strategy give that you're putting all your eggs in the conference championship basket.

All things considered I'm not sure an 8 team playoff would change much in regards to OOC scheduling.
This is about as perfectly on point as it gets.Theres a balance between the auto bids and at large bids.That makes this system extremely functional.It runs a lot deeper and provides a lot more clarity when it comes down to it
 

4down20

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We're not talking about making the P5 autobids the only way into the playoff. If you have at-large spots you still have to schedule well out of conference to get considered for that at-large if you don't win your conference. You could also argue that teams will still schedule well out of conference because they know they're not automatically eliminated from the playoff if they lose more than 1 game. I would think most programs would want to avoid playing three garbage teams that present no challenge before they go into conference play.

Not that I don't understand your argument, that's for sure a possible mindset some teams might have. But it seems like a bad strategy give that you're putting all your eggs in the conference championship basket.

All things considered I'm not sure an 8 team playoff would change much in regards to OOC scheduling.

Record means a hell of a lot more than SoS when it comes to those at large bids, which is basically what all the spots are now. Only after equal records does SoS seem to kick in - not that I agree with it.

And again, if you have 8 spots, why the hell do you still need the conferences to be AQ? If your conference champion can't make the top 8, then shouldn't that be a clue? I mean shit.
 

ralphiewvu

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True, and if you extend to 8 teams, Alabama would have made the playoffs every single year since 2010. We'd probably have even more national championships.



You aren't understanding how odds work. If only Alabama was affected by these things, then Alabama's odds would decrease, just as you suggest. However, since this effect is applied to everyone, not just Alabama, then the team with the most depth will get the better odds. Alabama or otherwise.



True, but you are assuming Alabama will always be in the top4 as your base for saying I'm against it. Can't have it both ways.

First not at all considering you would have had to won more games. So at best you'd be where you are in the playoff era.

Next, of course this is applied to everyone. But in an expanded playoff Alabama or who ever else winning the second game is a drastically different meaning then Alabama or whoever else winning the second game now. We weren't talking odds in this stage, we were talking about the difference between expanded playoffs and playoffs we have now. A distinction you said was no different.

You know you think Alabama will be in the top 4 till Saban goes. Don't try an deny that, but still ill play along. Any team has a better chance not losing while playing no one then playing that extra expanded playoff game(s).
 

Cave_Johnson

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Ohio St was the hot team and they made the most of it. By this logic, does this mean everytime we expand and the last place seed wins, it's justification for even more expansion?
Of course not. That's not the point I was trying to make. We actually do agree that at a certain point down the rankings there are teams that just don't belong in the playoff. My number is just higher than yours. I believe if you win a P5 conference title then you have earned the right to compete for a championship. Beyond those champions there's usually another team that has the resume to suggest they belong.

I brought up the Ohio State example because you specifically said that the number of teams that deserve a chance for the title never exceeds three. Ohio State was the fourth seed.
 

Cave_Johnson

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Record means a hell of a lot more than SoS when it comes to those at large bids, which is basically what all the spots are now. Only after equal records does SoS seem to kick in - not that I agree with it.

And again, if you have 8 spots, why the hell do you still need the conferences to be AQ? If your conference champion can't make the top 8, then shouldn't that be a clue? I mean shit.

You make them AQ just to guarantee less committee involvement and fuckery. You don't want people saying "That conference was trash this year and this other one was way stronger so three teams from League B get in and none from League A get in."

I would expect all P5 champions to fall in the top 8 anyway excluding situations like the one you mentioned with Wisconsin where arguably the best two teams in the conference get suspended from the post season.
 

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Of course not. That's not the point I was trying to make. We actually do agree that at a certain point down the rankings there are teams that just don't belong in the playoff. My number is just higher than yours. I believe if you win a P5 conference title then you have earned the right to compete for a championship. Beyond those champions there's usually another team that has the resume to suggest they belong.

There is a reason why in 3 playoffs thus far, last year was the only year that had a team that wasn't it's conference champion. Most of the time, the conference champion is going to get in. Not because they are "conference champions" but because of the resume that comes along with that accomplishment.

When that isn't the case, it's going to be for a reason. You can accept that reason or not, but this basically comes down to you wanting to the change the system because you think Penn St should have gotten in over Ohio St.

I brought up the Ohio State example because you specifically said that the number of teams that deserve a chance for the title never exceeds three. Ohio State was the fourth seed.

Ohio St got the benefit of the open spot needed to settle the title, and they made the best of it.
 

4down20

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You make them AQ just to guarantee less committee involvement and fuckery. You don't want people saying "That conference was trash this year and this other one was way stronger so three teams from League B get in and none from League A get in."

I would expect all P5 champions to fall in the top 8 anyway excluding situations like the one you mentioned with Wisconsin where arguably the best two teams in the conference get suspended from the post season.

Where is all the fuckery?
 

Cave_Johnson

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There is a reason why in 3 playoffs thus far, last year was the only year that had a team that wasn't it's conference champion. Most of the time, the conference champion is going to get in. Not because they are "conference champions" but because of the resume that comes along with that accomplishment.

When that isn't the case, it's going to be for a reason. You can accept that reason or not, but this basically comes down to you wanting to the change the system because you think Penn St should have gotten in over Ohio St.
What? No. The Penn St. thing is just an example of how the system is flawed. If they're going to not require a conference championship to get into the playoff then they need to get rid of conference championship games. It makes no sense to have Penn St. play and win an additional game for a championship if it means nothing. If there had been no championship game last year then fine. Put Ohio St. in. They had a better OOC win and fewer losses. No one would debate that. But don't make Penn St. play in and win an additional game and earn a championship on the field while Ohio St sits at home and then reward Ohio St.

Yeah, weird divisions are the only reason we didn't have an OSU vs. PSU B1G title game. But the rules were the rules last year even if they were flawed.

And for the record, I've wanted an 8 team playoff since the beginning.
 

Cave_Johnson

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Where is all the fuckery?
IDK man, imagine some hot big-titted bitch walks in the committee room and she's like "I'll eat all y'all's asses if you let Chico State in the playoff."

If you're in the committee room are you saying no to that? I sure ain't.
 

4down20

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What? No. The Penn St. thing is just an example of how the system is flawed.

We disagree fundamentally and there is no way we are going to come to agreement. Penn St is an example of why the system WORKS.
 

trojanfan12

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AQ's are lame.

If they playoffs are extended to 6 or 8 and your conference champions STILL can't make the playoffs, there is a reason for it.

Automatic disqualifiers because there are only 4 playoffs spots for 5 conference champions is more lame.

If the playoffs expanded to 6 or 8, I really don't think a conference champ missing the playoff would be an issue.
 

4down20

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Automatic disqualifiers because there are only 4 playoffs spots for 5 conference champions is more lame.

If the playoffs expanded to 6 or 8, I really don't think a conference champ missing the playoff would be an issue.

Nobody is automatically disqualified.
 

trojanfan12

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Nobody is automatically disqualified.

There are 5 conferences and 4 playoff spots. By definition 1 conference champion is automatically disqualified. You could have 5 unbeaten conference champs and 1 would still be left out. It may not be textbook automatic disqualification because there would have to be a vote by the committee...but 1 conference champion is automatically disqualified due to the lack of available spots.

Thus...automatic disqualification.
 

4down20

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There are 5 conferences and 4 playoff spots. By definition 1 conference champion is automatically disqualified. You could have 5 unbeaten conference champs and 1 would still be left out. It may not be textbook automatic disqualification because there would have to be a vote by the committee...but 1 conference champion is automatically disqualified due to the lack of available spots.

Thus...automatic disqualification.

Ok, then by the same logic, 123 FBS teams are automatically disqualified every year.
 

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What? No. The Penn St. thing is just an example of how the system is flawed. If they're going to not require a conference championship to get into the playoff then they need to get rid of conference championship games. It makes no sense to have Penn St. play and win an additional game for a championship if it means nothing. If there had been no championship game last year then fine. Put Ohio St. in. They had a better OOC win and fewer losses. No one would debate that. But don't make Penn St. play in and win an additional game and earn a championship on the field while Ohio St sits at home and then reward Ohio St.

Yeah, weird divisions are the only reason we didn't have an OSU vs. PSU B1G title game. But the rules were the rules last year even if they were flawed.

And for the record, I've wanted an 8 team playoff since the beginning.

I'm not sure Ohio State not having a BIG Championship game to get practice time in is a reward.
 

AlaskaGuy

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I'm not sure Ohio State not having a BIG Championship game to get practice time in is a reward.
I'm pretty sure Ohio St. didn't have to chance losing to Wiscy in that game after they failed to win their division.
 
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