Trying to Maintain Perspective

[The Authority]

AND THAT WAS MY POINT!!!!

Talk about dumb.


Clearly now that we have our first five data points in Hoke's fourth year further discussion was made moot. But given the information at the moment of kickoff on August 30th, I had just as valid an argument as you. And even then, let's talk about Bill McCartney, a topic you haven't even acknowledge let alone try to rebut. Through 4 years at Colorado the man was 14-30-1. So clearly by your logic, he would never have any success as a head coach at Colorado and should have been fired.

So what was the man's final record? 93-55-5, with 3 conference titles and 1 national title punching his ticket to the college football hall of fame.

I never said Hoke should have been fired last year. I just said that there wasn't any evidence to suggest that he is a great coach.

And on your Bill McCartney take, are you really comparing Colorado Football to Michigan Football.

WOW!

 

[The Authority]

Right now Michigan has one senior who's a return starter on offense, Gardner.

Ohio State has 3

In 2013 Michigan had 10 returning starters who were upperclassmen, by comparison on Ohio's State's depth chart there were 13 of the 22 starters who were returning upperclassmen.

But of greatest note was the interior O-line. Where all three of Michigan's starters were underclassmen making their first collegiate starts. Which if you actually know anything about football, leaves both A gaps vulnerably. O-line is were you very often see a lot of senior leadership, and very few underclassmen starters.

But just to be clear, you are saying there is no difference between a wet behind the ears 17 year old true freshman and a 22 year old seasoned 5th year senior. Otherwise, what is your point?



And do you know what reading comprehension is?



Did I say that? The answer is no, no I did not.

But if you can say the almost losing to Akron is a bad thing, I can say almost beating Ohio State is a good thing.




I think you should look in the mirror. You are the one making a fool of yourself, by your clear lack of understanding of the sport you claim to be a fan of.

All we have done is speculate on your shitty coach. The bottom line is that I was right and you were wrong.

 

[The Authority]

Seriously, you guys act like football games are binary; either you win with a score of 1, or lose with a score of 0.

Through his first 3 years (and remember, that's the only time frame in discussion here), Hoke had an average point differential of +10.4359. And in his loses the average difference was only -3.35897! (and that includes those beat downs by Alabama and MSU)

Let me put it this way, if Gardner makes that 2-pt conversion against Ohio State and Gibbons 1 of the 3 missed FG against Penn St. Michigan ends the regular season last year 9-3 not 7-5 and we aren't having this discussion. Just two plays! And has the cliche goes, "coaches coach and players play." Hoke had set up Michigan to win against Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska, and Iowa last year. Some of the blame falls on Hoke for not finishing them of, but also some belongs on the players and the other coaches.

You can't just take two close losses and say "oh if those were wins" when you also had Akron on the goal line ready to win as well as Northwestern miracle field goal to win.

That hypothetical 9 - 3 could have just as easily been 5 - 7.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Seriously, you guys act like football games are binary; either you win with a score of 1, or lose with a score of 0.

Through his first 3 years (and remember, that's the only time frame in discussion here), Hoke had an average point differential of +10.4359. And in his loses the average difference was only -3.35897! (and that includes those beat downs by Alabama and MSU)

Let me put it this way, if Gardner makes that 2-pt conversion against Ohio State and Gibbons 1 of the 3 missed FG against Penn St. Michigan ends the regular season last year 9-3 not 7-5 and we aren't having this discussion. Just two plays! And has the cliche goes, "coaches coach and players play." Hoke had set up Michigan to win against Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska, and Iowa last year. Some of the blame falls on Hoke for not finishing them of, but also some belongs on the players and the other coaches.

IF IF IF IF.......well if sparty wouldve beat ND we mightve been NC. IF IF IF


Gibbons shouldnt even had been playing


What about that blowout loss to unranked kansas st?

But hey. Im all for keeping hoke. Excuses excuses. Its brady homes fault he doesnt have seniors and juniors. HIS FAULT.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Sparty went to the rose bowl with a sophmore QB. And pretty much the whole offense were underclassmen. 1 sr WR....not sure how many sr were on OL but i know we had a freshman starting. Youth is all excuses. You guys got a 5 yr sr at QB this yr. excuses excuses excuses

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Sparty went to the rose bowl with a sophmore QB. And pretty much the whole offense were underclassmen. 1 sr WR....not sure how many sr were on OL but i know we had a freshman starting. Youth is all excuses. You guys got a 5 yr sr at QB this yr. excuses excuses excuses

Yes, with an O-line that had 2 seniors and 2 juniors and a defense that had 8 upperclassmen starters (5 of which were seniors). And everyone knows that it was the defense that was the strength of the team last year.

So thanks for proving my point about upperclassmen.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

All we have done is speculate on your shitty coach. The bottom line is that I was right and you were wrong.

Yes you were right, but the only defense you have given on your position is the hindsight of history. So like I said, you might as well have predicted a coin flip.

Which, "shitty" is way to strong. Over his head, sure. But Hoke is a good coach. One doesn't get the Michigan job if they are "shitty." But it does look like his ceiling is a MW/MAC head coach.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

You can't just take two close losses and say "oh if those were wins" when you also had Akron on the goal line ready to win as well as Northwestern miracle field goal to win.

That hypothetical 9 - 3 could have just as easily been 5 - 7.

Yes you can.

Like I've stated many times, the problems last year were with the 3 underclassmen on the O-line. As such the performance was inconsistent. They would have bad games (Akron) and good (Ohio State).

So again, the fact they were 7-6 is probably right were the team was, which given the circumstances wasn't that bad. And very well could have been the foundation of a better 4th season.

Which apparently did not come to pass.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

IF IF IF IF.......well if sparty wouldve beat ND we mightve been NC. IF IF IF


Gibbons shouldnt even had been playing


What about that blowout loss to unranked kansas st?

But hey. Im all for keeping hoke. Excuses excuses. Its brady homes fault he doesnt have seniors and juniors. HIS FAULT.

In 2013 the seniors were the class of 2010, a Rich Rod class and the juniors were the class of 2011, a mostly Rich Rod class.

How many times do I have to say this? When Hoke showed up there were only EIGHT scholarship lineman. How in the flying fuck is that Hoke's fault?


And yes, you can play the "if game," because you can sell that to recruits. Which college football really comes down to what you can sell to recruits. And getting that close, is a selling point. Because you can make the case that 5 star kid can put the team over the edge.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

I never said Hoke should have been fired last year. I just said that there wasn't any evidence to suggest that he is a great coach.

And on your Bill McCartney take, are you really comparing Colorado Football to Michigan Football.

WOW!

And that's were I completely disagree. Up until September 2014 there was plenty of evidence. A BCS bowl victory, killing it on the recruiting trail, and winning ~70% of his games at Michigan, with the loses because hair tight against good competition while transitioning from the Rich Rod year.

Because that is where the Colorado comparison is fair. Because every school, whether you are Alabama or Colorado School of Mines, undergoes a complete roster turnover every 4/5 years. So if you have 3+ bad years of recruiting, like Michigan did under Rich Rod, it takes 4+ years to fully recover. So following those Rich Rod years Michigan was in a similar state as when McCartney came to Colorado (or Dantonio to MSU for that matter).

So all the argument you have made to prove your point, very well could have been said of either of those two, and yet one is in the HOF and the other will most likely join him.

So all I said up until now is there are plenty of reasons to think Hoke's career at Michigan might follow a similar path, Hell, arithmetically it is still possible (just to clarify, I am not saying it is probable, just mathematically Michigan isn't technically fulminated from Big Ten contention).

So this is why I am laughing at you, the only defense you can give to your position is the benefit of hindsight with a clear lack of knowledge in the fundamentals of the sport.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Let me put it this way, John Harbaugh, the current favorite to replace Hoke, thinks Hoke is the right man for the job:
John Harbaugh throws support behind Michigan Wolverines' Brady Hoke - ESPN

Now, how much of that is honest opinion and how much is Harbaugh coming to the defense of a friend (they were both assistants under Dave Roberts at Western Michigan)?

But in either case, I will take his word on the matter over yours.

 

[The Authority]

Yes you were right, but the only defense you have given on your position is the hindsight of history. So like I said, you might as well have predicted a coin flip.

Which, "shitty" is way to strong. Over his head, sure. But Hoke is a good coach. One doesn't get the Michigan job if they are "shitty." But it does look like his ceiling is a MW/MAC head coach.

It was hardly a coin flip. He couldn't even win a conference championship at the mid major level.

There was nothing to suggest he would win one at the next level.

 

[The Authority]

Yes you can.

Like I've stated many times, the problems last year were with the 3 underclassmen on the O-line.

Hokes Fault.

 

[The Authority]

In 2013 the seniors were the class of 2010, a Rich Rod class and the juniors were the class of 2011, a mostly Rich Rod class.

How many times do I have to say this? When Hoke showed up there were only EIGHT scholarship lineman. How in the flying fuck is that Hoke's fault?


.

That should only take one year maybe two to fix.

 

[The Authority]

And that's were I completely disagree. Up until September 2014 there was plenty of evidence. A BCS bowl victory, killing it on the recruiting trail, and winning ~70% of his games at Michigan, with the loses because hair tight against good competition while transitioning from the Rich Rod year.

Because that is where the Colorado comparison is fair. Because every school, whether you are Alabama or Colorado School of Mines, undergoes a complete roster turnover every 4/5 years. So if you have 3+ bad years of recruiting, like Michigan did under Rich Rod, it takes 4+ years to fully recover. So following those Rich Rod years Michigan was in a similar state as when McCartney came to Colorado (or Dantonio to MSU for that matter).

So all the argument you have made to prove your point, very well could have been said of either of those two, and yet one is in the HOF and the other will most likely join him.

So all I said up until now is there are plenty of reasons to think Hoke's career at Michigan might follow a similar path, Hell, arithmetically it is still possible (just to clarify, I am not saying it is probable, just mathematically Michigan isn't technically fulminated from Big Ten contention).

So this is why I am laughing at you, the only defense you can give to your position is the benefit of hindsight with a clear lack of knowledge in the fundamentals of the sport.

No benefit of hindsight what so ever. Michigan was getting worse every year.

That's evidence.

Hoke has never won a conference championship

Thats evidence

He had a .500 record coaching mid majors

That's evidence

He almost and probably should have lost to Akron

That's evidence

His players were not devolping at all

Thats evidence.



All lead to the belief that he wasn't a good coach. And now looking at this year, You can admit that I am right.

All the laughing going on is towards you and your program.

 

[The Authority]

Let me put it this way, John Harbaugh, the current favorite to replace Hoke, thinks Hoke is the right man for the job:
John Harbaugh throws support behind Michigan Wolverines' Brady Hoke - ESPN

Now, how much of that is honest opinion and how much is Harbaugh coming to the defense of a friend (they were both assistants under Dave Roberts at Western Michigan)?

But in either case, I will take his word on the matter over yours.

Right because coaches always throw each other under bus.

You are hopeless.

 

[Cleaves2000]

In 2011 UM had the 21st best recruiting class per rivals. Hardly a horrible recruiting class

 

[Cleaves2000]

Looking at UM recruiting the last 4 yrs, theres no reason for them to suck so bad. From ESPN. IN 2010. 14th ranked. 2011 21st. 2012 7th. 2013 6th. So yeah blame the youth. Fuggin tool

 

[Cleaves2000]

But hey give hoke more years. ONLY seniors can win

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

That should only take one year maybe two to fix.

And here is your ignorance full on display.

O-line is the most underrated, yet arguably most difficult position both physically and mentally. Almost all O-line recruits are red-shirted so that they can have one year in the strength and conditioning program to bulk up (because remember, they still got a lot of growing to do). Then ideally one would like to start working them in relief for a year or two, to get a feel for the game and start building the cohesion with the other members of the unit (because there is no unit that has to operate together more than the O-line). Then they become starters, and since most don't make it the NFL, you tend to have a lot of 5th year seniors on the line.

So what you says should take "only a year" to fix, realistically takes 3/4 years to fix, becomes that is how long it takes to develop these kids.


Now, that being said, they should be further along in the process than they currently are. Last year should have been a baptism by fire, and the line (as a whole) should have take a significant step forward this year, and it appears it they did not.