Trying to Maintain Perspective

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

As some of you know, I've been a Hoke supporter these past couple of years. And honesty part of that is a backlash against those that do things like the "H/Joke" thing (come on folks, we are Michigan fans, we are better than resorting to ad hominem!) but also because I hate this notion of instant gratification. There is a reason most college HC contracts are 5+ years, because it does take time.

But I will admit, last weekend did shake that support to the core. And should the season start a death spiral, I will be right with you looking for change. But let's at least hold off until then. Because one, making a change now is a surefire way to kill any chance of this team having a quality season. Which two, remember the start of the 2007 season? Not only did Michigan have the embarassment of the App. St. game, there was a similar beat-down by Oregon (in the Big House no less). Yet, that turned out to be a pretty good season, and if not for some key injuries down the stretch could have been great. So one never knows how the season will play out, until it does.

So as have mentioned before, let's consider the case of Bill McCartney at Colorado. He had three terrible seasons, four medicore, but then the program took off, won a national title, became a dominate power, and McCartney is now in the Hall of Fame. Not say I am predicting Hoke will do the same, but given your crystal ball is just as good as mine, you cannot say for certain that won't happen.

Because yes, there are some troubling signs, but there is some postives as well. Do we just forget that Hoke did go 11-2 and won the Sugar Bowl? Do we just forget that even still in transition mode, for the most part these past couple of years they've been compeative in nearly all their games, including some heavy hitters (like Ohio St.)?

Bobby Bowden once said "First you lose big, then you lose close, then you win close before you win big. The problem is, you don't know exactly how long each step is going to take."


I get it, this isn't something Michigan fans have had to deal with in a long time. But every program, every program, goes through stuff like this from time to time. So let's not lose our heads.

 

[TK21775]

Well said GoBlue, been a Hoke supporter but I have to admit, the game against Notre Dame had me questioning him but if we fire him it's starts all over. Coach hiring has been horrible the last two times and I think we need to look at the season as a whole at the end of the year instead of judging after one bad game.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

That is it, no more defending this coaching staff. I really thought they would turn the corner this season, it's not so much that they are 2-2, but they've looked good in only one game. Unless somehow Hoke turns it around and wins the Big Ten, beating both MSU and OSU (which odds are against that), a change needs to be made.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

On a side note, where is everyone (like MB09 for example)?

Kinda would like to discuss Michigan football without all the OSU trolls, isn't that the point of having a separate area?

 

[uofmarmyguy]

Board seemed to die midway through last season. Not sure what happened. I was a huge Hoke supporter, but find myself deflated but the vast underperforming of our team at every level. He needs to go, but who replaces him? This search needs to start now, not at season's end.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Yes and no.

If there is a change at the head spot, I still think it should be at the end of the season. Doing it now would kill any chance, no matter how remote, of salvaging the season. Because yes, technically Michigan can still win the Big Ten.

But that doesn't mean informal feelers can't be put out on the DL.

 

[TK21775]

I just hope Brandon doesn't botch the coach hiring like he's done the last two times. It seemed he never had a plan, just thinking that coaches would call him asking for the job. I agree that we shouldn't make a change until end of the season but I hope they behind the scenes they start the process so that they are actually prepared this time around.

 

[TK21775]

I also think Gardner needs to sit, I'd rather watch and see what Morris can do for the next couple of games and get him some playing time in. Even my 10 year old son asked me who Gardner was throwing to on that last interception. He's seem to regress each season, indecisive in his play. At least sit him for one game, maybe that would light a fire for him

 

[The Authority]

That is it, no more defending this coaching staff. I really thought they would turn the corner this season, it's not so much that they are 2-2, but they've looked good in only one game. Unless somehow Hoke turns it around and wins the Big Ten, beating both MSU and OSU (which odds are against that), a change needs to be made.

We tried to tell you. You just couldn't remove the blinders.

 

[jdwills126]

Sadly, Hoke is in over his head!

The comment about fans and supporting the team showed how unprepared he is to be a big time college coach, imo. Then you factor in how he has gotten some of the best talent in the country but is unable to develop it. Plus arguing with his D-Coordinator in the middle of the game!!??!!

When he had an entire offseason to get ready for Alabama and was still blown out made me think the Wolverines made a mistake and everything he has done since has only confirmed it.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

We tried to tell you. You just couldn't remove the blinders.

You had blinders on just as much as I did. There was enough evidence to go either way at the beginning of the season.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Sadly, Hoke is in over his head!

The comment about fans and supporting the team showed how unprepared he is to be a big time college coach, imo. Then you factor in how he has gotten some of the best talent in the country but is unable to develop it. Plus arguing with his D-Coordinator in the middle of the game!!??!!

When he had an entire offseason to get ready for Alabama and was still blown out made me think the Wolverines made a mistake and everything he has done since has only confirmed it.

I didn't/wouldn't read too much into that Alabama game.

Not saying another coach wouldn't have done better, but they still would have been in year 2 transitioning from a far worse coach (at Michigan) than Brady Hoke is.

 

[The Authority]

You had blinders on just as much as I did. There was enough evidence to go either way at the beginning of the season.

No there wasn't and that is the whole point. The only evidence you pointed to was smoke, mirrors, and excuses.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

No there wasn't and that is the whole point. The only evidence you pointed to was smoke, mirrors, and excuses.

No, there was reasons to think he could do well this year, and reasons to doubt it.

You might as well claim of " I told you so" on a coin flip when it came out heads, when you clearly thought it would be tails.

 

[The Authority]

No, there was reasons to think he could do well this year, and reasons to doubt it.

The reasons were only wishful thinking.

Almost beating Ohio State isn't a valid reason because its a rivalry game.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

The reasons were only wishful thinking.

Almost beating Ohio State isn't a valid reason because its a rivalry game.

And that sound's awfully like an excuse.

Besides, you are forgetting all the other games that were close. If one were to exclude the MSU game, Michigan only lost the remaining regular season games by a grand total of 11 points!

Ohio State - lost by 1
Iowa - lost by 3
Nebraska - 4
Penn St. - 3 (in the 4th OT no less)

And let's go the year before:
Notre Dame - lost by 7
Ohio State - by 5
Nebraska - okay, this one was by 14. But could easily be explained by the injury to Denard.


That's the thing a troll like you forgets, there are these thing called "explanations" that are not excuses.

At the beginning of the season, outside of a handful of games each lost very easily could have been a win. That is all I ask for a coach that was still clearly in transition mode. And those exceptions were to top rated teams (MSU last year and Alabama the year before).

That's why the Utah game was the tipping point, Michigan should have started coming out of transition mode this season, so to get beat that bad by a middling Utah team just should not have happened.

 

[aar000n]

I see a lack of fundamentals. The touchdown run in the first half. Poor discipline the piss poor tacles all on coaching. The qb diciplin. Michigan has talent they need coaching and holes no the man.

 

[The Authority]

And that sound's awfully like an excuse.

Besides, you are forgetting all the other games that were close. If one were to exclude the MSU game, Michigan only lost the remaining regular season games by a grand total of 11 points!

Ohio State - lost by 1
Iowa - lost by 3
Nebraska - 4
Penn St. - 3 (in the 4th OT no less)

And let's go the year before:
Notre Dame - lost by 7
Ohio State - by 5
Nebraska - okay, this one was by 14. But could easily be explained by the injury to Denard.


That's the thing a troll like you forgets, there are these thing called "explanations" that are not excuses.

At the beginning of the season, outside of a handful of games each lost very easily could have been a win. That is all I ask for a coach that was still clearly in transition mode. And those exceptions were to top rated teams (MSU last year and Alabama the year before).

That's why the Utah game was the tipping point, Michigan should have started coming out of transition mode this season, so to get beat that bad by a middling Utah team just should not have happened.

you are using close games as an excuse. College football is about winning. Your team doesn' t seem to have the nack. But if you are okay with that. By all means. Continue to back your coach and your team. The rest of College Football expects wins.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

you are using close games as an excuse. College football is about winning. Your team doesn' t seem to have the nack. But if you are okay with that. By all means. Continue to back your coach and your team. The rest of College Football expects wins.

Again, as Bobby Bowden once said, "First you lose big, then you lose close, then you win close before you win big. The problem is, you don't know exactly how long each step is going to take."

Losing a close game is no shame, especially when it's 7 points or less. In those games one play could make the difference, and as the saying goes it's a game of inches. And sometimes, the ball just doesn't bounce your way. So when a team is transition mode, as Michigan was the past couple of years, losing close is not a bad thing, so long as the team makes progress in how they play, win or lose. Like I said before, it seems that "quality" Ohio State education taught you to only look at the surface, and in depth analysis is beyond your cognitive abilities.



Now, that being said, these last two games have been a huge tipping point. I stand by my defense of Hoke up until the start of the season, all I ever said this is the season we will get our first true look at what Michigan would look like under a Hoke regime, they should start exiting transition mode. So in the season where they should be turning the corner, to lose, and lose badly to a middling Utah and a middling Minnesota team is unacceptable. All previous loses where understandable, but not those two. So I have officially jumped on the fire Hoke bandwagon.

I wish him best on his next job, but it looks like he is Michigan's Ron Zook, and has set up the next coach for success, which I personally am looking at John Harbaugh.

 

[The Authority]

Again, as Bobby Bowden once said, "First you lose big, then you lose close, then you win close before you win big. The problem is, you don't know exactly how long each step is going to take."

Losing a close game is no shame, especially when it's 7 points or less. In those games one play could make the difference, and as the saying goes it's a game of inches. And sometimes, the ball just doesn't bounce your way. So when a team is transition mode, as Michigan was the past couple of years, losing close is not a bad thing, so long as the team makes progress in how they play, win or lose. Like I said before, it seems that "quality" Ohio State education taught you to only look at the surface, and in depth analysis is beyond your cognitive abilities.

You seem to forget that along with the close losses to good teams were also losses that weren't so close.

And there were close losses to bad teams along with close wins to bad teams.

But you keep using all of that as signs that things were looking good.