try to remain unbiased

[YankeeRebel]

Does this last playoff run and SB comeback make TB12 the greatest of all time in your eyes. I know SF fans will hand there hat on Montana and the whole never threw a playoff INT but I think it's a done deal now.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Yes.

I thought so after 4.
Won 4 Superbowls and 6 AFC Championships at that point.
The whole argument that Joe never lost in the SB is BS. He lost before he got there.
Losing before you get to the SB is not, somehow, more honorable than losing in it.
Joe had 4 SB's to go with his 4 NFC championships. That's less on the trophy mantle.
Joe might claim he's not jealous, but you know he is.


Bill Walsh traded for Steve Young to push Joe to be his best.
Bill has NEVER had to do that with Tom.

That says it all.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

For me...I never got into the whole GOAT thing, it never made sense to me. The NFL changes from year to year. QB's form 10 yrs ago played under different rules, QB's from 20 years ago played under different rules than those from 10 yrs ago. I mean just look at how much the NFL changes from year to year now? This has become an offensive league. Look at the rule changes put in place after NE beat the crap out Indy's WR, an then the next yr, you could hardly touch them. Back then, they returned kickoffs, now about 95% of Offensive drives start from the 20, so today's NFL QB's have on average 80 yards to work with instead of a KO returner taking the return down to the other teams 30. So ya, they are going to have more passing yards, more completions and more attempts, more TD passes.

However, after that SB I am leaning towards yes he is. Look at the state of the NFL and how many teams don't get back to the SB or even the playoffs. Sure he lost a couple, but they were not blow outs and it came down to the last drive and some amazing catches and great Defense by the Giants. He was down 25 and came back and won. The guy just wins. You don't have 5 SB for no reason. I mean the dude has been to 7 SB, that is pretty amazing.

In the end, I am just glad that I got to see these Brady vs Manning rivalries. Watching Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben play, they all have a different style. I remember briefly the Young's and Elway's, they were fun. Let's hope Luck and Cam can bring some stability when these guys are gone.

I never got to see these older QB's play. Seriously though, looking at these QB's being drafted now....do you really see anything from these guys that will Rival what we have seen over the last 20 yrs of Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Cam, Luck?? I don't.....

Gun to my head, yeah he is the GOAT.....

 

[NEhomer]

Prior to last February I always said no.

....then I watched that game.

 

[YankeeRebel]

For me...I never got into the whole GOAT thing, it never made sense to me. The NFL changes from year to year. QB's form 10 yrs ago played under different rules, QB's from 20 years ago played under different rules than those from 10 yrs ago. I mean just look at how much the NFL changes from year to year now? This has become an offensive league. Look at the rule changes put in place after NE beat the crap out Indy's WR, an then the next yr, you could hardly touch them. Back then, they returned kickoffs, now about 95% of Offensive drives start from the 20, so today's NFL QB's have on average 80 yards to work with instead of a KO returner taking the return down to the other teams 30. So ya, they are going to have more passing yards, more completions and more attempts, more TD passes.

However, after that SB I am leaning towards yes he is. Look at the state of the NFL and how many teams don't get back to the SB or even the playoffs. Sure he lost a couple, but they were not blow outs and it came down to the last drive and some amazing catches and great Defense by the Giants. He was down 25 and came back and won. The guy just wins. You don't have 5 SB for no reason. I mean the dude has been to 7 SB, that is pretty amazing.

In the end, I am just glad that I got to see these Brady vs Manning rivalries. Watching Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben play, they all have a different style. I remember briefly the Young's and Elway's, they were fun. Let's hope Luck and Cam can bring some stability when these guys are gone.

I never got to see these older QB's play. Seriously though, looking at these QB's being drafted now....do you really see anything from these guys that will Rival what we have seen over the last 20 yrs of Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Cam, Luck?? I don't.....

Gun to my head, yeah he is the GOAT.....

The GOAT Thing IMO makes perfect sense no matter how much the game may change the one constant is the QB is the leader of the team and the most important position on the field. Its about the ability to call the correct play, adjust or audible out of the play called when needed, the ability to read defenses, the ability to choose the correct target, command of his huddle and his offense, the ability to lead from behind and protect a lead when you have one, accuracy with the ball most of the intangibles that make one great remain the same regardless of the era.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Prior to last February I always said no.

....then I watched that game.

I was the same to me last Feb it was a toss up with me leaning hard toward TB12, then the whole playoff run last year iced the cake for me.

 

[GeekSportsFan]

Does this last playoff run and SB comeback make TB12 the greatest of all time in your eyes. I know SF fans will hand there hat on Montana and the whole never threw a playoff INT but I think it's a done deal now.

I don't see why he wouldn't. The combination of Brady, Belichick, and Kraft has to be the best trio in all of sports history. The consistency is remarkable.

 

[YankeeRebel]

I don't see why he wouldn't. The combination of Brady, Belichick, and Kraft has to be the best trio in all of sports history. The consistency is remarkable.

Yeah as a fan that grew up watching Pats footlball since around 73 I can say we are both luck and blessed for that combination

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Prior to last February I always said no.
.

Why?

Just curious.

 

[Carnzo]

Yeah as a fan that grew up watching Pats footlball since around 73 I can say we are both luck and blessed for that combination

73? The bad old days, never on TV, Shaffer stadium and terrible teams.
<Shudders>

 

[YankeeRebel]

73? The bad old days, never on TV, Shaffer stadium and terrible teams.
<Shudders>

Yes Sir I remember at Schaffer the cops handcuffing drunks to a chain link fence

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

It's been TB12 for me for awhile. Montana was amazing. Amazing. He also played on some pretty dominant teams in the pre-FA and salary cap era. It's certainly impressive he never threw a pick in those 4 SB's. But in three of them his team never trailed and two were blowouts. The Boomer Esiason game was the only time he ever had to lead his team on a crucial scoring drive in the 4th quarter of a SB. Now of course he did it, and did it beautifully, and there's nothing to say he couldn't've done it the other times if he'd needed to, as well. But ultimately he only did it once, whereas TB's done it 5 times. That's the great separator for me.

Someone wants to call them 1 and 1A, I got no quarrel with that.

 

[NEhomer]

Why?

Just curious.

Because I never saw Joe do anything like that and I'm skeptical that he could.

Minus the poor decision to toss the ball to Benett in the corner of the endzone on the second to last play, he was PERFECT in that OT drive.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Because I never saw Joe do anything like that and I'm skeptical that he could.

Minus the poor decision to toss the ball to Benett in the corner of the endzone on the second to last play, he was PERFECT in that OT drive.

My question...poorly worded...was more to why not Brady prior to SB 51?

 

[NEhomer]

My question...poorly worded...was more to why not Brady prior to SB 51?

Well because the game that numerically pulled him even with Joe in SBs was one play from not happening and even though this past game too could have been a loss on any number of plays, Brady just fucking willed it to happen.

When Slater won the coin toss to start overtime.....the game was over and we all knew it. It was the same feeling you used to get when Joe had the ball down a score with 2 minutes left.

Every time I re-watch parts of SB 51, I still think the Pats are gonna lose!

 

[nefansince75]

Here's my take... Tom won 5 Super Bowls in 15 years as a starter (excluding injury year)... The fact that JM was 4 for 4 discounts the fact that he lost before he reached in the other years... However, Joe was 4 in roughly 12 years matching Tom with 1 SB every 3 years... GOAT 1A and 1B? or better yet, just have no GOATs and just appreciate them for being them.

 

[nefansince75]

Because I never saw Joe do anything like that and I'm skeptical that he could.

Minus the poor decision to toss the ball to Benett in the corner of the endzone on the second to last play, he was PERFECT in that OT drive.

I'll argue the play call was probably the bad decision... Blounts in the game so lets try to pull a Bevell?

 

[YankeeRebel]

Here's my take... Tom won 5 Super Bowls in 15 years as a starter (excluding injury year)... The fact that JM was 4 for 4 discounts the fact that he lost before he reached in the other years... However, Joe was 4 in roughly 12 years matching Tom with 1 SB every 3 years... GOAT 1A and 1B? or better yet, just have no GOATs and just appreciate them for being them.

But there are a lot of variables to consider FA being a huge one. I can't agree 1 A and 1B I did last year not anymore.

 

[nefansince75]

But there are a lot of variables to consider FA being a huge one. I can't agree 1 A and 1B I did last year not anymore.

And I respect that... I don't like naming a GOAT, but like it or not.... It's Tom.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Something else to consider typically the GOAT Moniker really begins to stick after retirement I feel a lot of opinions are still up in the air because TB is still playing.