Top 32 tournament 1B Beckley vs Helton

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

1basemen Bracket is:

1 L Gehrig 6
32 J Giambi 0

16 J Beckley
17 T Helton

8 F Thomas
25 B Terry

9 J Thome
24 G Sisler

4 C Anson
29 N Cash

13 W McCovey
20 D Allen

5 R Connor
28 F McGriff

12 E Murray
21 J Olerud

3 J Foxx
30 L Berkman

14 M Cabrera
19 K Hernandez

6 J Bagwell
27 J Clark

11 J Mize
22 H Greenberg

2 A Pujols
31 M Teixeira

15 M McGwire
18 H Killebrew

7 D Brouthers
26 T Perez

10 R Palmeiro
23 W Clark

 

[obxyankeefan]

Jake Beckley Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

Todd Helton Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[obxyankeefan]

This IMO is the first one that is not a no brainer.

Beckley played in Anson's shadow when discussing players from the 1800s.

Helton get knocked down for having played his entire career in Coors Field.

 

[calsnowskier]

I can't vote for either one. As you said, they both have MAJOR scars.

Helton's numbers are bastardized by playing in Coors AND during the PED era. Beckley played during the infancy of the game, and his reputation does not exist (at least to me).

 

[obxyankeefan]

I can't vote for either one. As you said, they both have MAJOR scars.

Helton's numbers are bastardized by playing in Coors AND during the PED era. Beckley played during the infancy of the game, and his reputation does not exist (at least to me).

I understand your feelings towards players that played pre 1900, because stats were kept differently if at all back then.

As far as Helton goes, I believe he will be the first true Rockie to make the HOF. While playing in the PED ERA, he has never been associated with them to my knowledge. Even with the Coors Field factor his numbers are good enough that he should be seriously considered.

 

[calsnowskier]

I understand your feelings towards players that played pre 1900, because stats were kept differently if at all back then.

As far as Helton goes, I believe he will be the first true Rockie to make the HOF. While playing in the PED ERA, he has never been associated with them to my knowledge. Even with the Coors Field factor his numbers are good enough that he should be seriously considered.

I hate not voting. That hurts the process, IMHO.

I guess I have to weigh Coors vs infancy (PEDs is a side-issue, even for the biggest culprits), and early baseball loses that argument, I think.

Helton (while holding my nose).

 

[calsnowskier]

Just to pile on a bit (and to propose that he is NOT a HOFer)...

Career on the road...

.287/.386/.469/.855, 142 HR, 1125 hits, 4612 PA

doubled...

.287/.386/.469/.855, 284 HR, 2250 hits, 9224 PA

Good player. NOT HOF-worthy.

 

[obxyankeefan]

162 game have of 43 doubles 27 homers 101 runs and RBIs with a career ops+ 133.

Yes Coors played into that, but most Rockies while reaching those numbers in a few years do not maintain them over a career.

I would grant that he is not a first ballot, but I believe he is one that will make it over the ten years he is on the ballot.

 

[calsnowskier]

Eventually, a Rockie will get in. Not ALL Rockies are simply products of the park/city. Maybe Helton will be that player. Maybe it will be Tulo or CarGo or Walker. Of the four, if I HAD to induct one, it would be between Helton and Walker. But I suspect I would go with Walker first, because he played a "skill" position instead of 1B.

Helton was important for the Rockies organization. I would be in favor of his number getting retired if the Rockies wanted to do that, but the HOF, IMHO, is too much.

 

[Wamu]