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Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs- who was better

WHo was better

  • Wade Boggs

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • Tony Gwynn

    Votes: 15 53.6%
  • Torii Hunter

    Votes: 3 10.7%

  • Total voters
    28

MilkSpiller22

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So there is a terrible thread out there pairing Tony Gwynn with Torii Hunter... So thought to make a thread up for an actual good comparison...

Yes, one played 3B and the other is a RF... who would you take??
 

soxfan1468927

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Boggs and I wouldn't really need to think twice.

Fun Fact: Boggs and Gwynn played the exact same amount of games. 2440
 

MilkSpiller22

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Boggs and I wouldn't really need to think twice.

Fun Fact: Boggs and Gwynn played the exact same amount of games. 2440


I am actually leaning towards Gwynn... Both were insane contact hitters with great batting averages... Boggs was better at getting on base... But Gwynn was the more valuable base runner, with 3 seasons of 30+ SB at better than 70% rate...

But it is really splitting hairs for me...
 

RobToxin

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Since one is 3B and one is RF....

I'll take both!
 

Carnzo

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Homer pick for the chicken man and doing Margro. Wade Boggs
 

soxfan1468927

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I am actually leaning towards Gwynn... Both were insane contact hitters with great batting averages... Boggs was better at getting on base... But Gwynn was the more valuable base runner, with 3 seasons of 30+ SB at better than 70% rate...

But it is really splitting hairs for me...
Yeah but the "break even" rate hovers between 70 and 75%. He really only had 2 really good baserunning seasons. I think the positional difference and defensive difference makes up for that.
 

MilkSpiller22

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Yeah but the "break even" rate hovers between 70 and 75%. He really only had 2 really good baserunning seasons. I think the positional difference and defensive difference makes up for that.


Sure, wade boggs is known to be a very good defensive 3B... But we all know defensive metrics are questionable... and it is not like tony Gwynn was seen to be a bad defender... He did win more GG than Boggs... Yes, GG are a terrible metric, but it does show to some extent how they were perceived... so can we really give boggs the bonus for his defense and take it away from gwynn?? or is it more of a wash??

the way I see this comparison,

Gwynn was SLIGHTLY better in BA, he had the better BEST seasons...

Boggs was significantly better at getting walks, and therefore had the better OBP

Neither were power hitters, so we can ignore all power stats...

Gwynn was significantly better at base running, as Boggs was not a base runner... Yes, I am only talking about SB for base running, even though there are other things... point is that Gwynn had speed, Boggs didn't...

When splitting hairs don't we have to talk about stadium/team/league... in all 3 of those, didn't Gwynn have a significant disadvantage??
 

navamind

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Boggs because he was a much better defender at a more demanding position.
 

soxfan1468927

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Sure, wade boggs is known to be a very good defensive 3B... But we all know defensive metrics are questionable... and it is not like tony Gwynn was seen to be a bad defender... He did win more GG than Boggs... Yes, GG are a terrible metric, but it does show to some extent how they were perceived... so can we really give boggs the bonus for his defense and take it away from gwynn?? or is it more of a wash??

the way I see this comparison,

Gwynn was SLIGHTLY better in BA, he had the better BEST seasons...

Boggs was significantly better at getting walks, and therefore had the better OBP

Neither were power hitters, so we can ignore all power stats...

Gwynn was significantly better at base running, as Boggs was not a base runner... Yes, I am only talking about SB for base running, even though there are other things... point is that Gwynn had speed, Boggs didn't...

When splitting hairs don't we have to talk about stadium/team/league... in all 3 of those, didn't Gwynn have a significant disadvantage??
1. Defensive metrics are certainly questionable. But I don't think it's a wash in defense either.

2. I disagree that Gwynn had the better "best" season. I think Boggs in 1987 was better than anything Gwynn did.

3. Sure, Gwynn was a better baserunner. But he wasn't a consistent force out there. '86/'87 were the only years he was really a factor on the bases and outside of that he had just a 68% success rate in 330 attempts. That's a detriment. But, you can't just take out those two very good seasons so I think overall he was above average while Boggs wasn't.

4. You mentioned defense, but the one thing you didn't mention was positional value. And this is where I think Boggs has a significant edge. The average 3rd baseman during Boggs career at a .739 OPS while the average RFer during Gwynn's had a .770

5. Gwynn had a disadvantage in terms of stadium and OPS+ and wRC+ adjust for that. I wouldn't call opponents a significant disadvantage for Gwynn. Over a career that stuff washes out.
 

navamind

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1. Defensive metrics are certainly questionable. But I don't think it's a wash in defense either.

2. I disagree that Gwynn had the better "best" season. I think Boggs in 1987 was better than anything Gwynn did.

3. Sure, Gwynn was a better baserunner. But he wasn't a consistent force out there. '86/'87 were the only years he was really a factor on the bases and outside of that he had just a 68% success rate in 330 attempts. That's a detriment. But, you can't just take out those two very good seasons so I think overall he was above average while Boggs wasn't.

4. You mentioned defense, but the one thing you didn't mention was positional value. And this is where I think Boggs has a significant edge. The average 3rd baseman during Boggs career at a .739 OPS while the average RFer during Gwynn's had a .770

5. Gwynn had a disadvantage in terms of stadium and OPS+ and wRC+ adjust for that. I wouldn't call opponents a significant disadvantage for Gwynn. Over a career that stuff washes out.

agreed. Wade's 1987 season is just jaw dropping. his first ten seasons are amazing

.363/.461/.588, 174 OPS+, 40 doubles, 6 triples, 24 HR (granted everyone was hitting home runs in 87), 105:48 BB:K (it was even better in 88, 125:34 BB:K)
 

Shoeshine Boy

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Gwynn was awesome, but given the positional advantage and the 27 point difference in OBP, I'd take Boggs, easily.
 

Rock Strongo

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So there is a terrible thread out there pairing Tony Gwynn with Torii Hunter... So thought to make a thread up for an actual good comparison...

Yes, one played 3B and the other is a RF... who would you take??
they played different positions. do you mean hitter?
 

Rock Strongo

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I am actually leaning towards Gwynn... Both were insane contact hitters with great batting averages... Boggs was better at getting on base... But Gwynn was the more valuable base runner, with 3 seasons of 30+ SB at better than 70% rate...

But it is really splitting hairs for me...
boggs could have been a 25 HR a year guy, if he wanted to. thats true. im not sure about gwynn.
 

MilkSpiller22

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1. Defensive metrics are certainly questionable. But I don't think it's a wash in defense either.

2. I disagree that Gwynn had the better "best" season. I think Boggs in 1987 was better than anything Gwynn did.

3. Sure, Gwynn was a better baserunner. But he wasn't a consistent force out there. '86/'87 were the only years he was really a factor on the bases and outside of that he had just a 68% success rate in 330 attempts. That's a detriment. But, you can't just take out those two very good seasons so I think overall he was above average while Boggs wasn't.

4. You mentioned defense, but the one thing you didn't mention was positional value. And this is where I think Boggs has a significant edge. The average 3rd baseman during Boggs career at a .739 OPS while the average RFer during Gwynn's had a .770

5. Gwynn had a disadvantage in terms of stadium and OPS+ and wRC+ adjust for that. I wouldn't call opponents a significant disadvantage for Gwynn. Over a career that stuff washes out.


I agree that Gwynn wasn't consistent force at base running... But outside of the great ones, not many were... being a 4 time 30+ SB guy is something pretty special, even if his ratios were not anything special... and again, that is comparing him to a player who was not a SB guy at all... a slow footed man...

I also agree that there is positional value... But I will admit, I don't like using offensive numbers to show them... I think they are a separate factor...

IMO when comparing players there are 3 categories(some have sub categories of course)

1. Offense( I don't care what defensive position you played- all players are compared equally)
2. Defense
3. Base running

I am pretty much disregarding defense because I will admit, I have no clue how to compare a 3B who'se defensive metrics show he was a good defensive 3B with 2 GG compared to a RF with 5 GG but his defensive metrics don't show he was anything special...

either way IMO it is splitting hairs...

I do find it funny, that all the posters so far are red sox fans...
 

MilkSpiller22

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boggs could have been a 25 HR a year guy, if he wanted to. thats true. im not sure about gwynn.


I really hate that logic... We heard it all the time with ichiro too... You are what your stats show... could he have hit 25+ HRs?? maybe, but we can not analyze his career with the WHAT IF...
 

Rock Strongo

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I really hate that logic... We heard it all the time with ichiro too... You are what your stats show... could he have hit 25+ HRs?? maybe, but we can not analyze his career with the WHAT IF...
the one year he said he "tried to hit for power" he hit 24. boggs had the upper body strength and he was a big dude at 6'2.
he just hit like he was taught. pure contact hitter. we dont see many of those left.
 

Rock Strongo

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never knew this about boggs


Never batted .400 in a season. But he maintained a .401 batting average over a 162 game span from June 9, 1985 to June 6, 1986. His career-best .476 on-base percentage in 1988 is higher than Ty Cobb’s on-base percentage in any of his three .400 batting average seasons.
 

navamind

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that's a very speculative what if. 1987 was also (at the time) the year of the home run ball. Dale Sveum also hit 25 home runs that year and he only hit 69 in his career (.142 ISO).

1987 Major League Baseball Standard Batting | Baseball-Reference.com

a little more power would be nice, but it's hard to complain about a lack of power from a guy with a career .328 average and .415 OBP.
 
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MilkSpiller22

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the one year he said he "tried to hit for power" he hit 24. boggs had the upper body strength and he was a big dude at 6'2.
he just hit like he was taught. pure contact hitter. we dont see many of those left.


That is interesting that he hit 24 HRs in 1987, before the big Steroid era... and then never had more than 11 in any other season...

Also interesting that in this comparison, Gwynn had 5 double digit HR seasons compared to only 2 by Boggs... But again, i cant really use the power numbers because that is not either players game... and don't forget, Fenway was a much friendlier park than Jack Murphy was
 
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