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To the LeBron haters

Discussion in 'NBA Basketball Forum' started by msgkings322, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. LAD

    LAD Well-Known Member

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    did either of them WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP that year? NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which means neither were good enough that year. Now, certainly the Warriors had a better team than the Knicks as they were able to win more individual games - however, what prize did GS get for that??? Asking if the 2016 Knicks are equal to the 2016 Warriors is such a flawed logic. Here's why. Because team A (in this case GS) can be better than team B (in this case Knicks) but also still not good enough to win the ultimate prize. :doh:
     



  2. LAD

    LAD Well-Known Member

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    For the last time, this was NOT my point.
     
  3. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    Yes it was. You said it over and over and over again. You LITERALLY said that winning percentage in finals matters. It is an absurd argument and you constantly try to dance around it when challenged.

    6-0 or 6-7 mean the same thing to me.
     
  4. trojanfan12

    trojanfan12 R.I.P. Robotic Dreams. Fight On!

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    I think a better question is how many more titles would he and Bird have if he convinced Larry to come to the Lakers. lol
     
  5. LAD

    LAD Well-Known Member

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    LOL

    just because you can't follow my point doesn't mean I'm dancing. Just say you don't understand & move on - remember, you don't have to agree with everyone or anyone for that matter. But don't make things up.
     
  6. trojanfan12

    trojanfan12 R.I.P. Robotic Dreams. Fight On!

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    First you say this:

    Then you say this:

    Kareem is 6-4 in the finals. If 6-0 and 6-7 mean the same thing to you...then 6-0 and 6-4 should also mean the same.

    So, shouldn't you then have Kareem as at least co-GOAT with MJ?
     
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  7. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    No. Because there are other metrics that come into play. Otherwise Bill Russell would be the GOAT or, if we were to discount his rings as being too long ago, Robert Horry would be the GOAT because he's got 7 rings. Or John Havlichek who has 8 rings. And neither of them lost a finals either.

    Rings matter of course. But they aren't the end all be all.
     
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  8. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    Well your point is pretty easy to follow.

    I don't have any interest in arguing about your opinion. You are free to believe whatever you want. But I will argue against specious logic.
     
  9. LAD

    LAD Well-Known Member

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    To each his own if you like going round & round in circles.
     
  10. StanMarsh51

    StanMarsh51 Well-Known Member

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    As pointed out though, Kareen wasn't 'the guy' on all of those 6 teams championship teams...that's the big difference between his 6 rings and Jordan's. On the '88 championship team, Kareem was probably the 4th best player, and on the '87 team he was probably 3rd best on his team, he was either 2nd or 3rd best.

    That's the difference between him and Jordan - Jordan was clearly his team's best player in all of his 6 winning finals...Kareem wasn't.
     
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  11. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    I am not talking about LeBron vs. Jordan. Jordan is better. I have never once said I though LeBron is better than MJ. Not once.

    I am not sure about Jordan being more skilled. His shot wasn't great when he entered the league. Stats show LeBron is the better shootet overall, although late career MJ was clearly a very good shooter.

    The fire part? Hell yes. It was defense and most of all will that makes Jordan better than LeBron. Not anything tangible.
     
  12. Shaqdaddy11

    Shaqdaddy11 MVP

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    Bullshit. It was just defense and will that make Jordan better than lebron?

    How come you don't view Kobe better than him too then?
     
  13. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    I'm not rating him GOAT either. Because like you said, 3 isn't enough.

    I just don't think the 5 matters at all. At least not in a negative light.
     
  14. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    Kobe has more will. He was not as good defensively or offensively as LeBron. He was a better pure scorer. That was it. Kobe isn't even in the conversation.
     
  15. Shaqdaddy11

    Shaqdaddy11 MVP

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    :crazy:
     
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  16. Wamu

    Wamu whats-a-matta-u?

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    Here are LeBron & Kobe's #'s through 14 full seasons.

    LeBron: 27.1 ppg, 7.3 rebs, 7.0 asts, 1.7 stls, 0.8 blks / FG%: .546 & 3 pt. %: .342
    Kobe: 24.9 ppg, 5.3, rebs, 4.7 asts, 1.5 stls, 0.5 blks / FG%: .479 & 3 pt. %: .331

    LeBron > Kobe
     
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  17. Shaqdaddy11

    Shaqdaddy11 MVP

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    Kobe: 9 x All Defensive First Team, 3 x Second Team
    Lebron: 5 x All Defensive First Team, 1 x Second team

    Yeah, lebron is clearly the better defender :rolleyes2:
     
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  18. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    Nice response.

    But yeah.

    In 14.5 seasons, LeBron has had 150 offensive win shares and 63 defensive win shares.

    Kobe had 122.3 offensive win shares and 50.7 defensive win shares in 20 seasons. It is an open and shut case. Kobe isn't even in the ballpark with LBJ.

    But you know who is in the ballpark with LeBron?

    Jordan had 149.9 offensive win shares and 64.1 defensive win shares in 15 seasons. Nearly identical to where LeBron is now.
     
  19. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    By accolades voted on by humans?

    Maybe.

    Not by stats.

    Also, you must consider that the competition for all defense teams at SG is nowhere near as tough as it is at SF.

    But, I am impressed that you actually came back with legit data for once.
     
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  20. Shaqdaddy11

    Shaqdaddy11 MVP

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    Oh, so we can discredit All-Star selections and MVPs too when discussing and comparing players?