Time to get wise: EXPAND

[CoolBeans]

Opening up this discussion again.

I think The Big 12 needs a serious look at adding Central Florida and South Florida. Geographically, adding these two schools would allow a North/South Big 12 Division split with Oklahoma and Texas in separate divisions, allowing that possibility for a conference title game as a must-see rematch. It would open up the recruiting pipeline in Florida for the conference as a whole. Secondly, It would add TV markets in Tampa/Orlando. Thirdly, these schools would jump at the chance to come into the Big 12 with "the leftover" financially until the next contract. Once the conference is at 12.... We can attack the ACC by inviting Florida St. and Miami. Give Notre Dame a one chance invitation, and, expecting a "No", then go for Boise St. and Colorado St. or BYU in the North. Before we can do that, The Big 12 has to prove itself by getting a conference championship game and getting 12 schools.

 

[Slaton10]

No offense..but I don't know about anyone else, but I don't get "jump up and down" excited at the anticpation of playing UCF or USF every year when you have a leaguewith the cailber of programs that will perenially have 6 to 7 teams in the top 25 year in and year out...

Those to programs are commuter schools...with absolutely no football tradition to speak of...

 

[GoldRusher]

As a WVU fan out here in the east by ourselves and the other P5's seemingly being untouchable (at least for now) I'd like UCF, ECU, Cincy and a team from Georgia (maybe Georgia state or southern). That said, I can't see a way that those adds would help us and the rest of the Big12.
Monetarily they don't or I feel certain we would have them already and as far as prestige, when I imagine for example if TCU or Baylor had played one of those teams in a CCG last year that much would be different right now.

 

[outofyourmind]

adding these two schools would allow a North/South Big 12 Division split with Oklahoma and Texas in separate divisions

I don't think that Oklahoma/Texas will ever leave the Cotton Bowl game the 2nd Saturday of October. I also don't think that either school wants it to be a "permanent crossover game" with a potential "rematch" at the end of the season. Could be wrong, but don't think so.

I would love to have FSU and Miami but have a hard time thinking that's a real possibility.
Cincinnati, Louisville, GT, BYU all seem like they might be possibilities, but unless it's shown that they hold their own financially or add to the pot, my guess would be that the current arrangement will be acceptable to every member because none of us is going to give up money.

By the way, I loved the CCG format with 2 divisions and would love to see it again.

just my

 

[CoolBeans]

outofyourmind,

All good, valid points. I personally would love to see a cross division rival, played early in the football season. Second week of October would be fine with me.

I'd love to see the rivalry games. Texas Tech and Oklahoma St., TCU and WVU, Iowa St. and South Florida, Kansas and Central Florida, Baylor and Kansas St.

I love the two division format as well. To get better schools, like Florida St., Miami, etc. I feel the Big 12 first has to HAVE TWELVE. All the conferences other than us have two "weaker" schools at least. These schools usually help the profile of the conference, but usually are not that great.

PAC 12- Utah, Oregon St. or Colorado
Big 10- Northwestern, Purdue
ACC- Duke, Wake Forest
SEC- Vanderbilt and Kentucky

I think if we look at it THAT WAY, USF and UCF are not that bad of options. UCF and USF are the two largest universities in Florida. Not Florida, not Florida St. Also, I think Florida St. and Miami would jump at the chance, if two "NORTH division" schools were added, to join a "Big 16" where there'd be 1-2 road games in state AND a FOOTBALL FIRST conference.

There'd at least be an outside shot of getting the Golden Gorilla in the expansion discussion. IF, and I mean IF, someone can bring in Notre Dame, they have pulled a Football coup. Notre Dame would likely say no... but after the previous expansion mentioned, it'd be worth a legitimate shot. Adding the best two schools after that would make the "Big 16" the best football conference in America, including the SEC. Right now, like it or not, we are viewed as eating at the kiddie seat at the Big Boy table. Time to attack that notion.

 

[Slaton10]

outofyourmind,

All good, valid points. I personally would love to see a cross division rival, played early in the football season. Second week of October would be fine with me.

I'd love to see the rivalry games. Texas Tech and Oklahoma St., TCU and WVU, Iowa St. and South Florida, Kansas and Central Florida, Baylor and Kansas St.

I love the two division format as well. To get better schools, like Florida St., Miami, etc. I feel the Big 12 first has to HAVE TWELVE. All the conferences other than us have two "weaker" schools at least. These schools usually help the profile of the conference, but usually are not that great.

PAC 12- Utah, Oregon St. or Colorado
Big 10- Northwestern, Purdue
ACC- Duke, Wake Forest
SEC- Vanderbilt and Kentucky


My Friend you have tunnel vision!!...FOOTBALL and thats it!...those programs have a nitche that provides value...say like Kentucky and Duke who are your past two NC in Basketball!!...Vandy is a Baseball Power...Northwestern has been consistent in being a Bowl Eligible team...UCF and USF have literally nothing in any sport to fall back on or provide value...even Colorado has won a NC...

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I don't really see any of those scenarios as likely in the next couple of years. Until someone breaks a GOR agreement, there are really no desirable teams out there that would add value. If we go to two divisions, we lose a yearly game with either Texas or Oklahoma or maybe both. If we replace that game with a UCF, we are not doing any better.

Notre Dame could hold the key. It would take something like them being left out of the playoff when they have a good team. Watch an 11-1 Notre Dame team not make it because they did not play an 11-1 Florida State. They would then join a conference and the B12 could be as inviting as anyone else. If we got ND, then adding a BYU or Cincy would make sense to even out the numbers.

 

[outofyourmind]

I don't see any good alternatives.
The least worst alternative seems to stay put in the current arrangement.

 

[WVUDAD]

I don't see any good alternatives.
The least worst alternative seems to stay put in the current arrangement.

Sitting pat was what killed the BE, and will kill the B12 as well. People are caught up with Florida schools, which I get from a game standpoint, but they are just as far away for WVU and our fans, so to say an "Eastern" division is a misnomer in that it will nto be any closer for us. If the B12 wants to survive long term, they need to act, and act soon, the only thing that I see that could make the B12 live is for the ACC to be divided by the basketball vs football schools, and the B12 swooping in with perfect timing and grabbing Clemson, FSU, Miami, and VPI away from them before the PAC swoops in and raids the B12.

 

[outofyourmind]

Sitting pat was what killed the BE, and will kill the B12 as well. People are caught up with Florida schools, which I get from a game standpoint, but they are just as far away for WVU and our fans, so to say an "Eastern" division is a misnomer in that it will nto be any closer for us. If the B12 wants to survive long term, they need to act, and act soon, the only thing that I see that could make the B12 live is for the ACC to be divided by the basketball vs football schools, and the B12 swooping in with perfect timing and grabbing Clemson, FSU, Miami, and VPI away from them before the PAC swoops in and raids the B12.

I think that would be great.
The schools you mentioned could pull their own weight and add a lot to the conference.
But, if it comes down to adding teams and each school losing money to do it, or keeping it the status quo, i just think that the schools are too greedy to ad schools just for sake of a CCG and losing money at the same time.

I would rather add schools no matter what because I loved the 2 division CCG format. I also think that a CCG helps more than a round robin most of the time.

What I would like most of all is for Oklahoma/Oklahoma State to move to the SEC. Texas and a couple of teams to the PAC or BIG. Keep the Texas game as non conference game the way it was forever, and be done with it. That's just the selfish sided of me talking though.

 

[KnightAndDay]

No offense..but I don't know about anyone else, but I don't get "jump up and down" excited at the anticpation of playing UCF or USF every year when you have a leaguewith the cailber of programs that will perenially have 6 to 7 teams in the top 25 year in and year out...

Those to programs are commuter schools...with absolutely no football tradition to speak of...

Only started football in 1979, only been in the FBS since 1996.

All trials and tribulations considered, most teams wouldn't have much history or tradition in any sport when they've only been there a few decades and don't have the resources several other teams have.

I think, if given the opportunity, that will all change.

 

[GoldRusher]

Only started football in 1979, only been in the FBS since 1996.

All trials and tribulations considered, most teams wouldn't have much history or tradition in any sport when they've only been there a few decades and don't have the resources several other teams have.

I think, if given the opportunity, that will all change.

I tend to agree, you see a lot of people rave about what a great program Louisville is and how they were a great addition to the ACC (and both are true) but at one time not so long ago they were a CUSA program seen as so so that the BigEast brought in for basketball, not football.
Leadership and I guess a little bit of luck as far as timing is the key. I always thought USF would be a lock to have a fantastic program when they joined the BigEast after a few years of growth and to their credit they went a long way from day 1 but imo they never came close to what people were hoping for. I could be wrong but I think UCF may have the right kind of leadership if they were to be given a shot and a trip to Orlando for an away game every other year sounds pretty good to me and the rest of the family, distance be damned.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

I still believe BYU is the best option among "available" schools.

Only started football in 1979, only been in the FBS since 1996.

All trials and tribulations considered, most teams wouldn't have much history or tradition in any sport when they've only been there a few decades and don't have the resources several other teams have.

I think, if given the opportunity, that will all change.

I feel a lot more comfortable with your knights than the Bulls. I think UCF has shown more desire and drive to build the program than USF has.

My personal opinion is that UCF and BYU would be nice additions. Dedicated to building the program, good tv draw. Neither school would be a doormat or embarrassment.

 

[WVUDAD]

No offense..but I don't know about anyone else, but I don't get "jump up and down" excited at the anticpation of playing UCF or USF every year when you have a leaguewith the cailber of programs that will perenially have 6 to 7 teams in the top 25 year in and year out...

Those to programs are commuter schools...with absolutely no football tradition to speak of...

again, you spew nonsense, 6 or 7 top 25??? I dont know about you, but I do not get excited about playing Kansas, IAST, 1AA teams, TT, or even OSU. UCF has a better program right now than half the B12, to act like we are playing the Steelers every week is laughable. To laugh off schools because they do not have the long tradition is also an error, before Bowden, FSU was a joke, and if coaches move, Baylor and KSU will be right back to mediocre pretty quick, look at how many teams get a hot coach, rise up, then sink back when he moves on. If you just want to use name as a measure, there are two quality teams in the B12 right now.

 

[Slaton10]

Sitting pat was what killed the BE, and will kill the B12 as well. People are caught up with Florida schools, which I get from a game standpoint, but they are just as far away for WVU and our fans, so to say an "Eastern" division is a misnomer in that it will nto be any closer for us. If the B12 wants to survive long term, they need to act, and act soon, the only thing that I see that could make the B12 live is for the ACC to be divided by the basketball vs football schools, and the B12 swooping in with perfect timing and grabbing Clemson, FSU, Miami, and VPI away from them before the PAC swoops in and raids the B12.

I don't recall there being any Major Power schools like Texas and OU in the BE...as long as they are anchoring the conference the Big12 is always going to be secure..

 

[CoolBeans]

I don't recall there being any Major Power schools like Texas and OU in the BE...as long as they are anchoring the conference the Big12 is always going to be secure..

Slaton10, that is only "partly" true. The Old Big East did have Pitt, Syracuse, Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College. Those schools are down now but if you go back to the 90's you have a pretty strong conference. Granted, not quite up to UT or OU, but still... Very Respectable. I'd liken the current Big 12 situation to the old SWC and Big 8 days. They had to merge to survive.

I don't see an all out merger needed, but getting to 12 would put the Big 12 perception wise on equal footing with the PAC 12 and IMHO ahead of the Big 10 and the ACC. It really does not matter who we add to get to that number. Afterwards, be big game hunters. BUt for now, in survival mode, you hunt the game you can get.

Possible choices:

UCF, USF, Tulane, Memphis, Tulsa, BYU, Colorado St. Boise St., Cincinnati, and....don't laugh, Northern Iowa. Now... who would you choose. The Florida schools bring money, TV markets, a recruiting base, baseball schools, and great growth potential. A lot of people retire in Florida, meaning a lot of retirees, with retiree money, would attend games from their alma maters at UCF and USF. Each school has a nice stadium to play in. USF has a habit of scheduling Out of Conference a couple respectable schools and winning one per season.

Also, like I said earlier, the point is to GET IN POSITION to get some big boys to join. We are not there with 10 members. After getting to 12 I truly believe getting Florida St. could happen. They are not happy with the ACC but also view the Big 12 as a little unstable. IMHO, getting Florida St. and possibly Miami may make a statement that could draw interest from the Golden Cow..... Notre Dame. Getting Notre Dame and a 16th school, Like Boise St.. . Could really make things interesting.

 

[WVUDAD]

I don't recall there being any Major Power schools like Texas and OU in the BE...as long as they are anchoring the conference the Big12 is always going to be secure..

Yet again you post nonsense, before the 2003 raid, the BE was arguably stronger than today's B12. The BE champion was in three of the previous four "championship" games. Again the same thing was said about the BE, as long as Miami is there, they are safe. The B12 is behaving EXACTLY like the BE did, both got raided, made knee jerk invitations to available schools, then sat back and waited for the next raid without doing ANYTHING but saying they are happy at 8 or 10, and dont want to split the money any more ways.

 

[GoldRusher]

I don't see an all out merger needed, but getting to 12 would put the Big 12 perception wise on equal footing with the PAC 12 and IMHO ahead of the Big 10 and the ACC. It really does not matter who we add to get to that number. Afterwards, be big game hunters. BUt for now, in survival mode, you hunt the game you can get.

I disagree, if we add say a Cincy and Memphis ( the hot rumor a few months back) and take the pay cut from that move or BYU and the added travel expenses on top that move then throw in the new added expenses coming from the licensing law suit and full cost of tuitions ect.. It wont matter what the perception is, this conerence will be in trouble.
As it stands the big brand programs are close or in better shape in the Big12 than similar brands in other conferences. We start making moves that put them at a disadvantage financially then it wont take long for the phones to start ringing elsewhere with those valuable brands on the other end (and who could blame them?).

Like I say, as a fan, yes, Id like a few more teams, especially some east of the Mississippi. But if I put myself in Bowlsby's shoes, I get it, the best move for the time being is to sit tight and make more money than say, the ACC where those more desirable programs sit right now making less than us and facing the same upcoming financial challenges and still don't have that promised conference network that was ging to help them stay on par with everyone else.

 

[bbwvfan]

I don't want to see the conference expand for selfish reasons. I like the round robin, and I don't want to have teams like OU, Texas, BU, TCU and others come to Morgantown less often. I love having them come to town every other year.

The conference is just fine…

 

[GoldRusher]

I don't want to see the conference expand for selfish reasons. I like the round robin, and I don't want to have teams like OU, Texas, BU, TCU and others come to Morgantown less often. I love having them come to town every other year.

The conference is just fine…

Agree, the conference is fine as is, would I like to have a few more games closer to home as far as traveling to away games? Sure, but then again in this day n age and the coverages that games are now getting I'm not sure Id go anyway so...

That's another thing Luck did well while he was here was the future OOC scheduling. VT,PennState, UT and maybe Maryland that's plenty so in a sense we get the best of both worlds.