• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

The State of VT Recruiting

Sleepy T

....zzzz...
6,218
1,348
173
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Location
Old Dominion
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.73
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
While browsing other VT sites/boards, I am glad that this one isn't in all out "jump off the cliff" and "coaches fire sale" mode that the other ones are. I know none of us are particularly happy with the results on and off the field the last couple of years and some of that does fall on the coaches, some of it the players. With that being said, I think it is fairly unreasonable to think that the coaches can have a Top 15 type recruiting class with the on field results we have had.

So what gives? How does this team get back to what it once was? IMHO, it all starts ON the field.

The team is young and the offensive woes have led us to this place we now live in called mediocrity. This is directly attributed to the lack of offensive identity, willingness to push the envelope wrt new scheme and ideas, and yes...recruiting the Jimmys and the Joes on the offensive side of the ball. This is PARTICULARLY evident on the Offensive Line, where is where I think it all starts and ends. As the OL goes the Offense goes, this is typical for any program. We can all blame the coaches (looking at you Curt Newsome) for not only under recruiting the OL wrt numbers, ability, as well as not developing what we have managed to get, into some sort of starter. The skill positions have been lacking a bit as well, but I think we are getting there. Those positions seem to be in good shape moving forward... Thank you Stinespring and Moorehead. We shall see what the future of the OL and QB position hold soon enough.

I am not quite sure what the deal is with defensive recruiting? Sure it sucks to lose Dalton, probably will suck if/when we miss out on Sweat and Settle. But I trust that Bud Foster will continue to do what he has done. His scheme is a bit different than most but he has managed to consistently field top defensive units, despite maybe not being loaded up with NFL talent.

Winning cures everything. If this very young and loaded team can come out next year, stay healthy, play well, and have some good coaching behind them, it has a chance to be pretty good.. certainly an ACCCG contender. When VT starts winning again ... the results will be seen on the recruiting front. What is the plan after Beamer?? I really don't know... but it is obviously hurting us on the trail. I am not sure what the answer is there... a coach in waiting situation would be ideal, but doubt it will happen.

What do you guys think?
 

NickVT10

annnnnnnd its gone
4,287
21
38
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Location
Virginia
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
While browsing other VT sites/boards, I am glad that this one isn't in all out "jump off the cliff" and "coaches fire sale" mode that the other ones are. I know none of us are particularly happy with the results on and off the field the last couple of years and some of that does fall on the coaches, some of it the players. With that being said, I think it is fairly unreasonable to think that the coaches can have a Top 15 type recruiting class with the on field results we have had.

So what gives? How does this team get back to what it once was? IMHO, it all starts ON the field.

The team is young and the offensive woes have led us to this place we now live in called mediocrity. This is directly attributed to the lack of offensive identity, willingness to push the envelope wrt new scheme and ideas, and yes...recruiting the Jimmys and the Joes on the offensive side of the ball. This is PARTICULARLY evident on the Offensive Line, where is where I think it all starts and ends. As the OL goes the Offense goes, this is typical for any program. We can all blame the coaches (looking at you Curt Newsome) for not only under recruiting the OL wrt numbers, ability, as well as not developing what we have managed to get, into some sort of starter. The skill positions have been lacking a bit as well, but I think we are getting there. Those positions seem to be in good shape moving forward... Thank you Stinespring and Moorehead. We shall see what the future of the OL and QB position hold soon enough.

I am not quite sure what the deal is with defensive recruiting? Sure it sucks to lose Dalton, probably will suck if/when we miss out on Sweat and Settle. But I trust that Bud Foster will continue to do what he has done. His scheme is a bit different than most but he has managed to consistently field top defensive units, despite maybe not being loaded up with NFL talent.

Winning cures everything. If this very young and loaded team can come out next year, stay healthy, play well, and have some good coaching behind them, it has a chance to be pretty good.. certainly an ACCCG contender. When VT starts winning again ... the results will be seen on the recruiting front. What is the plan after Beamer?? I really don't know... but it is obviously hurting us on the trail. I am not sure what the answer is there... a coach in waiting situation would be ideal, but doubt it will happen.

What do you guys think?

I agree a lot of it starts on the field but the counter argument is what is on the field starts in recruiting... We will need to out perform our recruiting rankings(subjective, I know) and that will help draw in some more of the big recruits. Our recruiting classes the last 2 years have been pretty impressive and this year still has a ton of potential. We will miss out on some more guys we really want but that happens. The OL recruiting has improved but that will take 2-3 years from when that started to see the results on the field. The skill position recruiting has been much better and our secondary recruiting has been stellar as always. Getting Minor last year at LB was a big get for us.

I think we will be ok and bounce back from this slump. We had a handful of subpar recruiting years in the late 2000s-2011 area and it is biting us now. It will come back full circle though.

I had to take a break from TKP because the sky is falling over there and I hate that crap. Apparently many TSL posters came there and they are the doomsday crowd for the most part.
 

Sleepy T

....zzzz...
6,218
1,348
173
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Location
Old Dominion
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.73
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Yeah, winning does have a lot to do with the talent on the field. The upper tier SEC teams recruit at a high level and that has a lot to with their success. Recruiting rankings and national rankings often (not always) go hand in hand.

The thing is, VT has been very successful for a long time with 20-25ish ranked classes. Right about where we have still ended up the last few years.

The wild card that always put us ahead over the top were special teams, a tenacious D that gets tons of takeaways, and dual threat QBS that could make things happen with their feet. Minus the D, we have none of that now. Have we even tried to go after a punt this year? The fun to watch, inconservative, risk taking/go for broke attitude has been replaced by an ultra conservative game plan. It's painful to watch at times. The coaches need to coach and plan every game with a nothing to lose mentality.
 

Forty_Sixand2

Sleeper Pick
39,016
90
48
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Location
The Nation's Capital (where the news comes from)
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I have opinions on this but don't want to shirt change the discussion. I will respond tonight. Shirt answer is it is complicated, IMO, and not amenable to a quick fix. Also each individual recruit is different which makes it hard to really apply changes broadly to an individual situation.
 

Sleepy T

....zzzz...
6,218
1,348
173
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Location
Old Dominion
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.73
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I'm sure it is very complicated. A legendary coach on his way out in a few years (or less??), who is next up??? Will the defensive coaches be retained?? I know other coaches use the "retirement" thing against us in recruiting and that CFB and Bud have not been known to be ass kissers/high octane recruiters.

One douchebag poster (who does seem to have some inside info) on another board described these kids as thinking of Beams as the "Great grandpa " and guys like Jimbo as the "cool uncle". I don't know Bud personally, but he seems like he could be the "cool uncle" type.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ckhokie

Supporting Member Level 69
14,803
1,808
173
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
DC
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I don't buy the "it starts on the field" stuff. How does Clemson repeatedly land a top 10 classes when they were going through rough patches? How does Ole Miss land multiple 5* players in a single cycle when they've been nothing more than an afterthought in recent history? How does UNC or UVA outrecruit us? Why didn't our recruiting pick up when we were winning 10+ games every year? We consistently have had recruiting classes in the 20-35 range regardless of whether we were a top 10 program or not.

It doesn't start on the field. It starts with the coaches and the importance they view it, and the effort they then do (or do not) put in
 

757Hokie83

Captain Spaulding
19,219
23
38
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Location
OBX
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I don't buy the "it starts on the field" stuff. How does Clemson repeatedly land a top 10 classes when they were going through rough patches? How does Ole Miss land multiple 5* players in a single cycle when they've been nothing more than an afterthought in recent history? How does UNC or UVA outrecruit us? Why didn't our recruiting pick up when we were winning 10+ games every year? We consistently have had recruiting classes in the 20-35 range regardless of whether we were a top 10 program or not.

It doesn't start on the field. It starts with the coaches and the importance they view it, and the effort they then do (or do not) put in

cash payments and african american studies?
 

ckhokie

Supporting Member Level 69
14,803
1,808
173
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
DC
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
cash payments and african american studies?

Could be. And I'm not going to promote any sort of cheating on our part. Just pointing out that there is a lot more that goes into recruiting than claiming (hoping) "win games and they'll come." That never has, nor will it be the case.
 

ACC_HOKIES

4 ACC Championships
1,258
1
0
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Location
Richmond Area
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Our team has systemic problems beyond recruiting. The same problems we've had for years have finally been exploited. In the past decade, we've seen special teams advantages evaporate, a greater demand on quarterbacks to account for yards and points, a steady decline in offensive line production, and a devastating fall off in the run game. These flaws are coaching based more than player based, IMO, and unaddressed were and are a deterrent to taking the next step (on-field and in recruiting).

These flaws were accounted for by strategy (ball control, smart play, and superior defense) and some well managed mix of talent during our 10-win streak. It was ugly, and painful to watch, but it was how Tech played, and won. It's why we were so extremely consistent, regardless of who started at any position. In short, the coaches put the flawed teams into a position to win.

Not only are those well managed talents unapparent to the gameplan right now, but the team cannot control the ball and cannot play smart. Even the defense has underperformed. Opportunities are wasted across the board, and not enough is being done to nudge the resources available to succeed. Recruiting is hampered, if not meaningless, until these issues are addressed. Five star recruits aren't going to stop our inabilities to get the play call in.

This team might have figured out how to win 10 games if it had its heads on straight. This is the same team that beat up Ohio State. We have talent! I really think Frank needs to really get tough with his staff these final weeks. When the coaches get their shit together, Virginia Tech will be back to its winning ways. Only then will recruiting truly make a positive difference. At that point, I think the staff will continue to make strides.
 

Sleepy T

....zzzz...
6,218
1,348
173
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Location
Old Dominion
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.73
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Could be. And I'm not going to promote any sort of cheating on our part. Just pointing out that there is a lot more that goes into recruiting than claiming (hoping) "win games and they'll come." That never has, nor will it be the case.

What... Like flying into a high school game in a chopper like it's some kind of a fucking circus or something?? Well if you are expecting that from our coaches then don't hold your breath. Personally, I don't want that. It's bush league and if that single incident is what makes or breaks a recruitment in their favor... Then I don't want that player... Because all that says about them is me, me, me... All about me....I'm the man.

Now, Having Josh Sweat and his family over for a VERY nice dinner at the Beamer residence on his official. Sure, for a recruit of his caliber, that should be the norm. The head coach having in home visits and staying in touch with the top targets personally during the process, sure that should be the norm. But this notion that FB and BF should be blowing up these guys phones like some psycho bitch.. C'mon now.

And yeah... I think it does have to start on the field. The coaches have nothing left to sell and are being recruited against for various reasons. The best way to combat that is to show the country that VT is still here, is still relevant, and can be a force. If this team somehow would break it open and be in the playoff next year (big if), then the recruiting would turn around overnight. Just like it did following the '99 season.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ckhokie

Supporting Member Level 69
14,803
1,808
173
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Location
DC
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
What... Like flying into a high school game in a chopper like it's some kind of a fucking circus or something?? Well if you are expecting that from our coaches then don't hold your breath.

Go to extremes much? No where did I even allude to anything like that.

Fact of the matter is we have another scenario in Dalton where we see a VHT recruit mentions that he felt like VT had just kind of lost contact with him. Remember "Bud Foster is my favorite coach...but I haven't heard from him in a while"? This isn't new. It actually seems to happen every year, sometimes on multiple occasions. No one is asking for a circus. Just more effort than the staff has given. They should see that their tactics have hurt us in the past, and they're apparently not getting any better.

Now, Having Josh Sweat and his family over for a VERY nice dinner at the Beamer residence on his official. Sure, for a recruit of his caliber, that should be the norm. The head coach having in home visits and staying in touch with the top targets personally during the process, sure that should be the norm. But this notion that FB and BF should be blowing up these guys phones like some psycho bitch.. C'mon now.

I agree. But this needs to happen for a lot of recruits, not just the #1 recruit in the nation. You better believe other coaches are inviting these kids into their homes. I would expect something like this should happen with 5-10 guys per cycle

Whether or not you or I agree with the recruiting tactics and successes or failures of this staff, it's apparent that whatever we're doing, isn't enough. Obviously it's a bit ridiculous at times what some of these schools do for 16 and 17 year olds, but if that is what it takes to land the players in this day in age, you evolve. It seems like so much of our program is just stuck in the past and needs to catch up.
 

VTscores

Observer
1,733
0
36
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Location
Florida
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
This team might have figured out how to win 10 games if it had its heads on straight. This is the same team that beat up Ohio State. We have talent! I really think Frank needs to really get tough with his staff these final weeks. When the coaches get their shit together, Virginia Tech will be back to its winning ways. Only then will recruiting truly make a positive difference. At that point, I think the staff will continue to make strides.

I agree with that. The coaches need to get their head in the game, and the players need to realize it's a game of inches, and that if they miss out on an inch they're letting the team down.

Too many losses on one score this season, too many senseless penalties, and too many basic mistakes. That said, at least they're within a score in these games, and they're not giving up. But now it's time to find a way to win. Coaches, too. The brass ring is just out of reach, so they'll just have to reach a little further, even if they're really, really tired.
 

sparko

Active Member
1,422
2
38
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Location
The Noke
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
I think that some of the recruiting issues are beyond the coaches control to an extent. Blacksburg may be a great place to all of us but it's not for most, when compared to other college towns. Staff is short-timing it = easy to recruit against. Bud Foster, while very successful with HIS system, can't get guys to the NFL. His defensive scheme depends on smaller, quicker lineman, gap fitters = doesn't translate to NFL defenses. Kids know what they're getting when they come to VT and right now it's not a good thing. This program has hit its peak and there is no HOPE to sell a kid on, no freshness in the program. Butch Jones, James Franklin, Fedora .. they can sell the FUTURE WELL. That's why has done well with some kids. Frank Beamer has had 15 years between his national title run to make VT's future the present .. and it hasn't happened and it won't happen. Saban can sell previous success and NFL aspirations. Virginia is a recruiting hotbed but there is no allegiance to in-state schools or "teamSEC" like in other states. A lot of these kids are transplants and DC/NOVA is a hodge-podge of Maryland/PennSt/Pitt/NotreDame lovers, not to mention some snooty-ass areas where their kids grow up thinking that they're too good to go to a backwoods hillbilly school. I don't think that ... but some of these kids do.

Now -- the results on the field could fix a lot of these problems and the egg is coming before the chicken for a lot of these teams (take Tennessee for instance). But Butch Jones is working his AZZ off to get it done. That's what it takes and this staff obviously doesn't have the heart or stomach for big-time, kiss your ass, show me the love recruiting. Should they have to do that? No. Is that what it takes? Unless you're Nick Saban and a select few who can sell the recent successes of their program -- hell yes that's what it takes.
 

Forty_Sixand2

Sleeper Pick
39,016
90
48
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Location
The Nation's Capital (where the news comes from)
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
OK, I am going to take this piece by piece because I have the Hokie Buzzketball game on one comp, the Pitt game on another and the Caps on the TV. So let's ale this one piece at a time.

(deleted because unnecessary and I am not going down that road)

Now wrt recruiting, i have a ton to say so where to start:

As far as a whole hearted clean sweep or firing of Beamer, that is really tricky. If he is forced out without his sendoff tour, it would have a major impact on recruiting for that season and the next, IMO. A lot of players and families feel really really tied to him. A lot of them would leave in a heartbeat and you may see a four or five year impact on one of the local coaches in VA, even if you hit a home run hire. That can be OK in basketball where you need 3-4 recruits each year but in a sport where you need numbers as well as high end recruits, burning local coaches is iffy. You let them out (especially guys like Beamer) the right way. For this reason, I think even a 4-8 finish gives him one more sunset season. It also helps with maintaining staff members that you want to keep (remember Beamer has done a ton to get his assistants paid well and they are very loyal).

(to be cont'd.....)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Forty_Sixand2

Sleeper Pick
39,016
90
48
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Location
The Nation's Capital (where the news comes from)
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
OK, part two:

As much as I just said we can't just fire someone like Beamer, he HASSSS to make more of an effort on the trail. Between he and Foster, we get zero buzz in recruiting kids. they are far and away the faces of the program and yet getting them to go to a HS game or an in home visit (or hell even to make a phone call) is like pulling teeth. They have a ton of clout and need to use it. Hell Frank coaches the punters and that's about it these days, so take your cell phone out to the practice field and make some calls (even commit a class 3 violation or two because everyone does now and then) as a phone call can mean a lot.

Stinespring works his ass off as does TG, CB and AMo. I don't know as much about Shane, Wiles or Serles but those four are driving 500 miles a night on weekends to spend a quarter at some poduck HS game and they should be embraced for it. Loeffler does it as well. Frank and Bud need to get out on the trail and into these kids heads some more. All of the good ones do it.
 

wildturkey

Well-Known Member
25,987
8,296
533
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Hoopla Cash
$ 98,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I said it in one of the other topics but I really think its just an effort thing. I don't think location hurts us all that much because we have built up a very solid brand the last 20 years. Recruits recognize that brand and will endure Blacksburg for it so long as the coaches make them feel apart of it. But that's not happening enough imo. Read all the Hokie dirt sheets over the years and I think its apparent our approach to recruiting isn't what it should be in the modern game. Some of our guys work their ass off at it, some don't. That doesn't cut it anymore. To get top guys and top classes, every guy has to be relentless at it. Our football staff needs to take notes from Buzz Williams' crew. The sports are different sure, but the mentality should be the same from the HC all the way down to the bottom peg guy. If that changes, there's no doubt we'll get more 4 and 5 star guys, especially the ones in our backyard.

EDIT: What 46 said.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

hokiecat

Member
197
0
16
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Edit ^^^^What 46 said in PT1 and what ACC_Hokies said. I think we are seeing a 60-something year old head coach at "work". The guy is not going to be what he was 15 years ago. And the results show it on the field. Look at special teams. Beamerball has been dead for years. It used to be I would love to see us coming out on 4th down. Will we block it? Will Andre Davis take it back all the way? Now I am just hoping we don't run into the punter and give up an automatic first down. And it feels like we get more kicks blocked than we block.

The staff turnover a couple years ago helped with recruiting malaise. I like a lot of the young talent. But there is no identity? Are we going to be a run first team? Then get some linemen. Where are the Jake Grove and Matt Lehr type guys? Or are we going to pass more? Then truly move to an offense that will attract the QB and WR.

Even the defense isn't what it used to be. What happened to Engelberger and Moore types. Bud used to blow smoke about how some decent lineman (Ellis, Brown, Gayle) was the best we'd ever had. Anyhow, Torian Gray seems to be keeping DBU going but the front 7 are not what they were a decade ago.

I think you hope talent keeps coming in and FB steps down in a year or two. I still think he wants to stay until the Bristol game in 2016.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sleepy T

....zzzz...
6,218
1,348
173
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Location
Old Dominion
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.73
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I had heard Frank and Bud were lazy recruiters but I honestly didn't realize the situation was THAT bad. If it is like pulling teeth to get them to make a phone call, then that is completely unacceptable.

Maybe they are blinded (as maybe I am??) that on field results will be good enough to bring in these top flight recruits. I was exaggerating about the chopper thing ck, but some coaches actually do that and some other pretty over the top things that I think is rather ridiculous. I don't think the philosophy will change a whole lot at this point. Frank is in his twilight years, will be paid handsomely for years to come, and is obviously stuck in the past wrt how recruiting is nowadays. Or maybe <gulp> he really doesn't care enough about the future to put in the effort and isn't willing to sacrifice his time to go out and see these kids on their turf. Once again... Very troubling, especially in the state of VA where the travel is minimal, and the talent here is very very good.

Bud Foster's lack of motivation is a whole other matter. Once again, I don't know what his personality is really like, but he seems like he could be a well liked, very very cool dude. Someone who could relate to the kids and once again be the "cool uncle" type. If he can't do any better than this then he doesn't deserve a chance at being the next head ball coach. And I have went on record of saying that I would be for that.

I am sure the situation is very very complicated. I will be very interested in how the coaching change is handled by Babcock over the next several years.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top