The second half

[JohnU]

Did anyone else hear the stories of how pissy Brandon Phillips was when he came to GABP as a Braves players? He was mad beause they assigned his number 4 to Scooter Gennett. Wasn't anything to do with Scooter, just that the Reds didn't retire his number. Any thoughts on that subject?

The freaky season Scooter has had modifies the notion that the Reds probably DID intend to honor Phillips at some point. He may have hit himself in the thumb with his own hammer when he bitched about his contract years back whenever Votto signed and I know he annoyed the FO by pissing around with his no-trade clause a year ago.

I think the fans would have been happy with BP had he not done those two things and I really think they'd have not given away No. 4 to Scooter on other terms. Meaning, he pissed off the FO and that's how they handled it. Childish? Perhaps, but understandable. it wasn't like Gennett asked for that number.

Phillips may eventually be forgiven.

In the end, Phillips was a very good 2B in an era when it became easy to laud a guy by simply showing a peculiar highlight of a play he made. He plays in an era when flashy ballplayers became the norm.


If they retired his jersey, I'd be OK with that. But I think now, it belongs to Scooter who made this summer quite exciting.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Phillips remains a fan favorite, but I agree he's probably not on the FO Christmas card mailing list. I'd have to consider him the 2nd best position player to wear a Reds uniform this century.

Personally, I've always felt they should have retired #4 in honor of Ernie Lombardi. He's depicted on Crosley Terrace wearng #4. He's one of the few HOF players inducted wearing a Reds cap prior to the BRM honorees.

But, you don't sell many tickets honoring a dead guy that current living fans never saw play.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Larkin and Griffey Jr both had superior careers to Phillips and played in this century, but I think both had their best years prior to Y2K.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of pitchers that had great seasons came from AA Pensacola.

Castillo, Mahle, Austin Reed, and Deck McGuire to name a few. Even Ariel Hernandez had his best showing to date pitching in AA.

The common denominator would have to be the hiring of Danny Darwin.

IMO, the Reds need to figure out what Danny Darwin is doing different than the rest of the clowns they've hired and build from there.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Castillo, Mahle, Austin Reed, and Deck McGuire to name a few. Even Ariel Hernandez had his best showing to date pitching in AA.

Austin Ross, not Austin Reed

 

[JohnU]

Reds who wore No. 4 in the last 30 years. Prior to that, for a very long time, Nos. 1 through 4 were reserved for managers or coaches. That was a numbering system that defined a lot of players. (Cubs had it too for some reason, apparently to make it easier for fans. Infielders 10-19, catchers 5-9, outfielders 20-29, pitchers 30-and up. Since guys sometimes changed positions, this was not absolute.

I think before 1932, not all teams wore numbers. I know that the reason Ruth wore 3 and Gehrig 4 was that was their spot in the batting order, so it just was automatic they'd get those numbers.

Hence, the lowest number Bench could get was 5. That changed in the 1980s.

1, Harvey Hendrick 1932 Cincinnati Reds
2. Chick Hafey 1933 Cincinnati Reds
3. Sparky Adams 1934 Cincinnati Reds
4. Billy Sullivan 1935 Cincinnati Reds
5. Kiki Cuyler 1936 Cincinnati Reds
6. Kiki Cuyler 1937 Cincinnati Reds
7. Ernie Lombardi 1939 Cincinnati Reds
8. Ernie Lombardi 1940 Cincinnati Reds
9. Ernie Lombardi 1941 Cincinnati Reds
10. Al Lakeman 1942 Cincinnati Reds
11. Al Lakeman 1943 Cincinnati Reds
12. Al Lakeman 1944 Cincinnati Reds
13. Al Lakeman 1945 Cincinnati Reds
14. Al Lakeman 1946 Cincinnati Reds
15. Al Lakeman 1947 Cincinnati Reds
16. Steve Christmas 1983 Cincinnati Reds
17. Alan Knicely 1983 Cincinnati Reds
18. Brad Gulden 1984 Cincinnati Reds
19. Jacob Brumfield 1994 Cincinnati Reds
20. Damian Jackson 1997 Cincinnati Reds
21. Jeffrey Hammonds 1998 Cincinnati Reds
22. Damian Jackson 1998 Cincinnati Reds
23. Jeffrey Hammonds 1999 Cincinnati Reds
24. Brandon Larson 2001 Cincinnati Reds
25. Ray Olmedo 2003 Cincinnati Reds
26. Ray Olmedo 2004 Cincinnati Reds
27. Ray Olmedo 2005 Cincinnati Reds

Phillips is next and wore the number longer than anybody in team history.
Looks like Al Lakeman would be next.

 

[JohnU]

I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of pitchers that had great seasons came from AA Pensacola.

Castillo, Mahle, Austin Reed, and Deck McGuire to name a few. Even Ariel Hernandez had his best showing to date pitching in AA.

The common denominator would have to be the hiring of Danny Darwin.

IMO, the Reds need to figure out what Danny Darwin is doing different than the rest of the clowns they've hired and build from there.

Could be, all the real talent is of the age/experience that they were just going to be at Pensy.
I heard Darwin's name a lot in the last couple of weeks now that the minor seasons are over.

 

[eburg5000]

I was why The Reds gave Phillips number away so soon. I guess I know now. Not sawing I agree with the FO doing that, but at least I understand.
The whole Phillips situation really never made any sense to me. The rush to get rid of him. Trading him,. but still paying most of his contract. Loyalty is long gone in todays game.

 

[JohnU]

I was why The Reds gave Phillips number away so soon. I guess I know now. Not sawing I agree with the FO doing that, but at least I understand.
The whole Phillips situation really never made any sense to me. The rush to get rid of him. Trading him,. but still paying most of his contract. Loyalty is long gone in todays game.

I don't know that anybody "officlal" was involved in saying the No. 4 was given to Scooter just to offend Phillips, but I never heard anybody deny it either. I think BP tried to become his own industry toward the end, thinking the fans would overwhelmingly support his ascendancy into Reds historical greatness.

He probably ought to have left his game to do the talking for him, as Votto will do and as Rolen has done.

Cincy wasn't desperate to give No. 4 to Gennett and they knew full-well what they were doing when they did it. It's hard to not attach importance to BP's comments and contract status. Reds were trying to rebuild and everyone knew that Peraza and Herrera needed the innings.

Also, I think it was really REALLY coincidental that Cincy was able to get Scooter from the Brewers so easily just when it was clear that Peraza and Herrera weren't ready. And ... presto! "Here's No. 4, Scooter!"

The Dan Straily move a year ago also made me scratch my head, but I also remember when the Cardinals just coincidentally were able to trade for Jason Heyward a week after their star prospect died in a car crash.

Baseball is weird, but it should not be THAT weird.

 

[eburg5000]

Well, Deck didn't make much of an impression last night. The bullpen did fairly well though.

As each game goes by. The reality of the Reds not winning another game this year, is more evident. Outside of looking to see what the score is, I haven't watched a game in a week or 2. I am getting a little tired of watching pitchers who don't belong or aren't ready making their first starts for the Reds. I didn't look it up, but I think it's somewhere around 30+. And It is probably safe to say at least 90 % of those starts, were loses I hope they can start showing some improvement next year, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[eburg5000]

In a way, that many rookies starting their 1st major league game. Is a travesty, and an embarrassment to the game. I know the Reds have had injuries. but that's way to many

 

[JohnU]

I think there's a lot of fantasy smoke surrounding the pitching for next year.
The idea that all will be well in March is based on paperwork.
Two of these guys haven't combined for 30 innings in 2 years. How suddenly are they going to beef up the rotation?
At least one of these auditions is coming to camp next year as the No. 4 or No. 5 starter.
I really don't think Romano is much of an answer. Stephenson might be. Mahle is a year away, and Castillo is not as ready as we think -- yet. Homer is a .500 pitcher at best.
If you want to see a winner, you are gonna need to wait until they trade for some pitchers.

 

[JohnU]

Not much more to discuss this year other than some final observations.
I don't really expect to be contributing much until the time comes for contract talks.
Looks like the only deal that needs to be made is on Cozart and maybe whether to give Suarez a contract.
Maybe the Reds deal Gennett or Duvall, though I honestly don't see how those players yield much that turns the program around.
Either way, if it's interesting we can discuss it.

 

[eburg5000]

I think pitching is much harder to come by. If anyone has any pitching to trade. They will want a lot.

Todays game has changed so much it's hard for me to keep up with it all. So I really don't know what any player is worth in todays market. I think pitching is more valuable, but who knows.

 

[JohnU]

I think pitching is much harder to come by. If anyone has any pitching to trade. They will want a lot.

Todays game has changed so much it's hard for me to keep up with it all. So I really don't know what any player is worth in todays market. I think pitching is more valuable, but who knows.

I think managers and coaches have wrecked their own rice with their absorption by mega and meta-stats. They have decided to force pitchers into situations based on what the data tells them. Too much attention to pitching on certain rest, in day games following night games, lefty-righty matchups, even who's umpiring that day. Now pitchers have the mindset that certain things have to happen or else they have to modify their game.

If the hitters are teeing off on his on-the-corner slider, the pitcher goes to the 12-6 curve and he can't throw it for a strike because hitters never swing at that pitch anymore. Now he tries to learn a cutter or a variation of a forkball, and now his elbow hurts a little.

So he throws a 99 mph 2-seamer that nobody will ignore and will foul off the first 5 or 6 ...

Now the manager is keeping track of the pitches and has his Mister Specialty in the bullpen.

Managers have fucked up the game by being owned by the sabrmetrics people. The GMs have bought into it so the pitching has become a meat market of mediocre idiots who might last 3 or 4 years in the league if there's room for him in the Reds bullpen.

Reds bullpen isn't worse than anybody else's.

 

[eburg5000]

I think managers and coaches have wrecked their own rice with their absorption by mega and meta-stats. They have decided to force pitchers into situations based on what the data tells them. Too much attention to pitching on certain rest, in day games following night games, lefty-righty matchups, even who's umpiring that day. Now pitchers have the mindset that certain things have to happen or else they have to modify their game.

If the hitters are teeing off on his on-the-corner slider, the pitcher goes to the 12-6 curve and he can't throw it for a strike because hitters never swing at that pitch anymore. Now he tries to learn a cutter or a variation of a forkball, and now his elbow hurts a little.

So he throws a 99 mph 2-seamer that nobody will ignore and will foul off the first 5 or 6 ...

Now the manager is keeping track of the pitches and has his Mister Specialty in the bullpen.

Managers have fucked up the game by being owned by the sabrmetrics people. The GMs have bought into it so the pitching has become a meat market of mediocre idiots who might last 3 or 4 years in the league if there's room for him in the Reds bullpen.

Reds bullpen isn't worse than anybody else's.

And that's what I'm talking about!

 

[Hit-n-Run]

The Reds finished with 68 wins. A bit disappointing after a good August and 1st half of September. Losing 9 of 10 to round out September will do that.

I was hoping Cozart could hang on and finish with a .300+ BA. But he had a great season nonetheless.

Scooter had an incredible season when you consider he wasn't an everyday player the 1st half. His RBI total (97) was the most impressive stat.

All three outfielders hit below .250, but each have peripheral skill sets that the Reds apparently like. I think they need an upgrade there sooner or later.

Suarez showed improvement at the plate and more so in the field. Where he plays when Nick Senzel arrives will be interesting.

Votto steadily put together a great season. A few more of that caliber and he'll be cementing his path to the HOF.

Barnhart got a well deserved contract extension. Beyond him the catching situation is a bit cloudy.

Peraza disappointed the 1st half losing his everyday status, but seemed to get the message with improved play the 2nd half. He's only 23 and could improve if the work ethic is there.

Then there's the pitching. Where to begin?

 

[JohnU]

Pitching is still too immature to contend for a divisional run.

 

[eburg5000]

It really surprised me that all three of the outfielders hit under 250. Not so much Hamilton but, Duvall and Schebler. Duvall hit 249. with 99 RBI's and 31 HR's pretty consistent to last year. Schebler 233, 67 HR's 67 RBI's. Low RBI's but he batted 7th. Hamilton hit in the high 240's and that's pretty much what he's hit sense he came up.
I know fans love the HR, but myself I think a guy who hits around 300 with 10 to 15 HR's is more valuable

I'm wondering what they are going to do with Cozart this off season. Also I'm wondering about Mesoraco. Will an off season of rest bring back the Mesoraco of old , or just enough to back up Barnhart. I really don't mind a two catcher system it saves both catchers in the long run, and keeps them fresh.

I'm also not sure how much longer Mesoraco is under team control

 

[JohnU]

I'm wondering what they are going to do with Cozart this off season. Also I'm wondering about Mesoraco. Will an off season of rest bring back the Mesoraco of old , or just enough to back up Barnhart. I really don't mind a two catcher system it saves both catchers in the long run, and keeps them fresh.

Cozart is the one who has to make the decision since he's a free agent.
I think Mesoraco will be OK. The broken foot isn't a chronic injury.
The problem is he is running out of time to be useful.