The second half

[eburg5000]

I don't know what the Reds plans for Garrett are, but might as well let him finish the season in the rotation. Same with Reed.

 

[JohnU]

Garrett may never be a starter or a big-leaguer at all but he's a lefty with some gettup on his fastball. I think coaching will help him.

If I were the Reds, I'd just see if somebody will take Reed in a prospects deal.

 

[eburg5000]

I don't know but the Reds have been making the Met's look like they are a much better team than they are. The Reds inconsistency is hard to figure. One series they look great, then the next, well.....
I know they're young, but it seems they would be just a little more consistent than they are

 

[JohnU]

If the objective for the remainder of the year is to let Homer Bailey do his lab work on the mound, just let me know. I would rather go looking for an Iowa Wesleyan football game than watch this paint dry.

Yeah, they faced Montero last week. You'd think they had a scouting report on him. He gave up 5 walks, 4 hits and all 4 hits couldn't break a pane of glass.

Boring. I am done for the year.

 

[eburg5000]

Time for a new thread. "The off season" or something of that matter.

 

[JohnU]

Not much more reason to sustain this. Not much activity anyhow.
I might recommend the NL Central thread on the main forums. I started it but haven't really been all that active there. Baseball was pretty slow this year due to the fact that the only race was the NL-C and even that was pretty dull. Every other division was wrapped up in July.
Cleveland ... wtf?

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Less than three weeks to go. May as well ride this dead horse into October's barn.

Castillo, Romano, Mahle, and Stephenson have renewed my faith in whatever you choose to call this process we've been enduring. They may all be rotten eggs come next April, but for now they have shown improvement. That's all I'm looking for as the season winds down.

That group will be as good as their walk ratio. Hard to compete with a 4.5+ walks per 9 innings, especially when you follow it up with a bleacher souvenir for the fans.

IMO, Garrett is behind all those guys in quality of stuff. He's an over slotted draft pick that had to improve a ton to get where he currently is. I think he's near his ceiling and it's probably not high enough.

Cody Reed is probably the most hyped prospect that disappointed the most. I like his fastball- slider combo, but he can't pitch. Hard and harder is his preferred method. Good luck with that.

We should be taking odds on Homer's next injury or if Desclafani will ever pitch again. Then there's Finnegan coming off double shoulder surgery. Hard to imagine any of those three factoring in next April.

 

[JohnU]

Gotta agree on Finnegan. He's not even been discussed to much when the pundits talk about the 2018 staff, so I gotta think the blanket has been thrown on him and they aren't making that public. I honestly think they would be smart to move on from Desclafani and if he shows up, great. Bailey? Meh ... he's a 4th starter now. I think the Reds should just at least admit that developing young pitchers is way more complicated than it was when Don Gullett came up.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Stephenson struggled from the first batter to the shower early. The Matt Carpeter at bat set the tone and it snow balled from there. Three walks and a ROE that all scored. Think I've seen enough of this game.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Homer is owed nearly $44M and at least $5M to buyout the 2020 season, so he's here for the minimum of another two seasons. Will his performance warrant him holding down a rotation spot? We'll see. The amount of money owed dictates he'll be afforded the opportunity.

The handling of Desclafani's elbow has the guy in limbo. He doesn't need surgery, but gets shut down at the first sign of tenderness. At some point he either has to pitch through the pain or update his resume and explore a career change.

There's a lot of names in the mix.
Castillo, Romano, Mahle, Stephenson, Bailey, Desclafani, Finnegan, Garrett, Davis, Stephens, and eenie meenie mine mo. Are there 5 good ones in that group? May as well go with eenie meenie mine mo.

Hard to harvest a rotation from your farm system. Most playoff caliber rotations have at least a couple ready to plug in acquisitions to fill out the required five.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Who are the keepers in this bullpen? You couldn't find an ERA under 3.00 after Iglesias with a search warrant.

Lorenzen and Peralta have been Price's go to guys most of the season. But neither have been consistently reliable.

The thought that all failed starters can be quality relievers is a myth. Some pitchers are more suited to being relievers and excel at it. We're not seeing much in the way of Reds prospects excelling in relief at the MLB level. Reed, Davis, and others haven't pitched well regardless of their role.

 

[eburg5000]

Price seems to go to Shackleford a lot. He was pretty good at AAA. Peralta pitched well the 1st half of the season. He might just be tired from the long season

If Disco and Finnagan don't come back. This team could be in a lot of trouble. Castillo looks good so far. But can he keep it up into next year. Romano, is pitching better along with Shephenson. except for last night.

I have a question. I read the other day that someone had 4 or 5 "plates". what's wrong with "RBI's". If that's what they are talking about. could be it's how many plates of food they had, I guess. Just me being old I guess

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I've seen plates used for the base runner scoring.
Example: Votto's rbi double plates Cozart.

 

[JohnU]

Plates is just another scribe cliche ... back when I did sportswriting for a living, I learned early on that a touchdown was not paydirt, a free throw was not a trip to the charity stripe and the mound was not the same thing as the bump. We did not tickle the twines when we made a basket and hogs and ponies were on a farm, not a football team.

Back to baseball.

Lorenzen wants to start. I think he should get the chance.
Yes, it's next to impossible to develop a rotation from a farm system and if I can find a team that did, they are the Reds, 20 games under .500 with 2 weeks to play.

Bullpens should be the result of a solid rotation and a rotation that is based on the arcane and ridulous premise that you need 5 of them ... in today's game, THAT IS NOT going to succeed if you have 5 or 6 mediocre pitchers not named Kershaw or Greinke. There are too many shifts, data points and matchups. You need to find pitchers who can pitch to the opponent's weaknesses. It may mean having 6 or even 8 guys who can start and go 60 pitches.

Cincy ain't even close to that.

Why the FUCK are they using Ariel Hernandez for any reason at all? Finish out the season with him? Sorry, but he doesn't belong in MLB, let alone in a game. He should just be "fired." Even if the ship is sinking, go down with the notion that the objective is to build a better ship, not insult the fans by saying you don't give a fuck.

Shackleford might actually not be a bad pitcher overall. I think Wojo might be OK if he learns to stop tipping his pitches.

At least we got rid of Cingrani and replaced him with Chacin or some other Latin kid who is on a work visa.

Yeah, this rotation in 2018 is leading up to a painful joke. Desclafani's career isn't developing, Bailey is a 4th starter, Romano is going to pull an oblique, Stephenson will yank an elbow and I have no idea about Castillo or Mahle. Maybe they are OK. That other list of EMMM ... I think we should trade somebody.

After all, we have Peraza.

And Iglesias.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Michael Lorenzen has made it clear he wants to be in the rotation, but I'm not sure Bryan Price is going to give him that opportunity. I think Price likes having him in the bullpen.

Every time I hear Lorenzen talk about pitching the less I think he can be a quality SP. He's another guy that has the philosophy of throwing hard and trying to throw harder if that doesn't work.

I'm a fan of the Tom Seaver philosophy. Putting more emphasis on location, movement second, and ranking velocity as the third in importance. The Reds have plenty of guys with velocity and movement. The ones that not only figure it out, but can also execute location will be the SP that excel. The throw harder mentality guys will have shorter careers as a SP.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Kevin Shackleford has been good in September, but was awfull in August.

One bad outing can skew your ERA, so I try and look at game logs more than a guys season stat line. He's appeared in 19 games and allowed runs in 6 of those appearances. His problem has been the crooked numbers. Two or three runs in a single outing for a reliever is a killer.

He is on a nice run tossing 8 consecutive scoreless appearances. I'd say he's moving up the pecking order in guys Bryan Price likes.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Asher Wojciechowski has been night and day when starting and relieving. As a starter he's been terrible, but has been ok in relief. I think Tim Adleman hasn't done much to secure his future. I think they only keep one of those two loving forward.

Chacin has been an over achiever rising through the system. I don't see anything that suggest he's going to be able to handle MLB hitters. Smoke and mirrors can only take you so far.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Ariel Hernandez is a guy that every scout becomes enamored with. Great fastball/ breaking pitch combo, but can only throw to four locations- east, west, north, and south. Danny Darwin helped the guy some, but he'll probably always be a 2 plus pitch guy that remains a work in progress until his arm is shot.

I think the Reds really need to move beyond most of the guys we've seen in the 2017 bullpen.


Iglesias, Peralta, Lorenzen, and Shackleford would be the only ones I'd head into ST feeling comfortable with.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Tyler Mahle threw a ton of pitches the first two innings, but to his credit he bent without breaking. He was better his last 3 IP.

Has an awkward looking cross his body delivery. A lot of guys with unorthodox deliveries have success. It adds deception and makes it tough for the batter to pick the ball up.

 

[eburg5000]

Mahle pitched well last night. He's pitched well in several games. But I have said the same things about other rookie pitchers on the Reds staff. most are inconsistent. I keep hoping for some of these guys to step forward, but so far outside of Castillo. None really has

I think Winkler can be a consistent every day player, if they had a place for him. But who in the outfield do you ship out? Probably the best outfield the Reds have had in years.