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The NBA rookies Thread

Discussion in 'NBA Basketball Forum' started by handicappers, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    Yeah, I think Donovan gets a lot of play with the media because of his size and expectations.

    He wasn't supposed to be.......THIS.

    The Jazz were supposed to be shipwrecked.

    If they pull out the 8th seed, in a brutal Western Conference race, it could very well come down to the last game seen.
     



  2. Mebert

    Mebert Not Mebert's Alt

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    Not all shots are equal either. Most of Simmons shots come from the flow of the offense when his defender has to go somewhere else to help. Mitchells come after he has broken down his defender and then avoided help defense in the paint. It is good for Simmons to pick up points in a smart way, but it is a luxury Mitchell lacks. I think that Mitchell TS% is nearly identical to Simmons Shows how good he is at this point.
     
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  3. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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  4. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    You make me extremely happy...lol
     
  5. CitySushi

    CitySushi Hoopla Basketball Strategist

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  6. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    All fair points.

    Ultimately it comes down to whether you believe that scoring is what matters or whether their overall impact on the game matters. You can make good arguments either way.
     
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  7. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    But it should also be pointed out that Donovan Mitchell was just a guy until Gobert came back. Without Gobert this was a cellar dweller team.
     
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  8. Mebert

    Mebert Not Mebert's Alt

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    Absolutely, Mitchell is not good enough to carry a team, and Gobert is hands down the best player there. I think in 2-3 years Mitchell will be good enough to carry a team, but that is not really relevant for a ROY discussion.

    Mitchell also make me depressed to watch, he does everything that I am still waiting for Wiggins to do. Those play styles are near identical and watching the other teams guy have the cutthroat mentality hurts me deep in the feelings.
     
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  9. Sparhawk

    Sparhawk Bojack_Horseman triggerer

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    I would disagree.

    TS% and eFG% take into account volume of 3s, 3P%, FTs, and FT%.
    It shows how efficient Simmons is given his lack of outside shot and horrid FT shooting.
    He could drastically improve his numbers by hitting 70% at the free throw line.

    Will Mitchell improve upon his 84% from the line? Maybe.
    He's already a league average 3P shooter, so maybe he can someday get to 40%.
    And maybe he can improve his shot selection to be more efficient.

    Mitchell deserves credit for being the guy and taking high leverage shots.

    That being said, they are both fantastic rooks who should be anchoring their team for an easy decade.
    Utah and the Sixers both have that international flair, so I look forward to seeing how these teams progress.
     
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  10. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    Agree completely. But I have seen some folks argue that Mitchell is a one man show in Dallas whereas Simmons has Embiid to cover for him. I don't think that is entirely accurate.

    Wiggins never established the right level of aggression. He just doesn't have that killer instinct.
     
  11. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    Mitchell is the go to guy in Utah.

    Simmons is the beta in Philly.

    That is indisputable.

    Here you go again twisting words because you feel defensive.

    Come on, Dude.

    Be better than that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  12. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    I'm not defensive. FFS, I hate when people do that shit. Offering a counter point is not being defensive. It's called a discussion.

    It is UNDENIABLE that the Jazz were a bad team with Mitchell but without Gobert. Once Gobert comes back they INSTANTLY become a much better team. Donovan Mitchell also became a much better player.

    Donovan Mitchell is the go to guy in Utah because Gobert does all the hard work down low.

    If Gobert doesn't come back, Mitchell isn't being talked about in the same way right now. Conversely, if Embiid were to go down the Sixers would most likely not be a playoff contender and Simmons likely wouldn't be talked about in the same way.

    Which is my point. Both players benefit from a huge contributor on their team.
     
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  13. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    Quote the post where someone said Mtchell is a one man show.

    You are the one who acts like a petulant, passive aggressive little girl when faced with a differing opinion.

    I don't have to dramatize your statements to strengthen my position.
     
  14. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    JFC. You just called Ben Simmons a beta while Mitchell is the go to guy.

    But since you want to make this a fight...

    You can speculate that the Simmons wouldn't be nearly as good without Embiid. We KNOW that Mitchell WASN'T nearly as good without Gobert.

    Sometimes I feel like it is a requirement for me to say in every post "I think that both Simmons and Mitchell are worthy candidates for ROY. I'll argue in favor of Simmons but I completely get why Mitchell could win and deservedly" just avoid this kind of bullshit pissing contest.

    It seems to me that you are the one who gets defensive whenever someone says anything that approaches a criticism of Mitchell.
     
  15. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    That's nice.

    But, where is the part where I , or anyone else here, said Mitchell is a one man show and Simmons wouldn't be good if not for Embiid?....lol

    Ill wait.....

    We didn't, that's just you being passive aggressive.

    Scottie Pippen- Beta

    Chris Paul - Beta

    CJ McCollum - Beta

    All great players, just like Simmons.

    All play second fiddle on their teams.

    All would still be great solo.

    Embiid does take pressure off Simmons with his play and on/off court theatrics.

    I'm not sure why you see that as me saying Simmons wouldn't be as good.

    Ben has more help...these are facts.

    If you don't like being called out for being passive aggressive, maybe stop doing it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  16. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say you said anything.

    I did say that some people, when comparing Simmons to Mitchell, will qualify Simmons accomplishments while not doing the same with Mitchell and Gobert. That's the sum total of the point I was making. Using mild hyperbole to make that point is hardly passive-aggressive.

    Simmons doesn't shoot from the mid-range or beyond which is something he will need to work on. That will limit his overall impact.
     
  17. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    If he develops a outside jumper, he's the next LeBron.

    Possibly BETTER.

    If he doesn't, at worst he's Pippen.

    That's a pretty decent floor...imo
     
  18. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Well-Known Member

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    That's a fair statement.

    To be clear I was NEVER implying that you were slagging Simmons. Sorry if you thought that. In fact I don't think anyone is.
     
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  19. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    This was the point I was trying to make about Mitchell..

    It's not just that he's scoring. It's WHEN and HOW.

    It's a couple of weeks old. But, you get the gist...


    [​IMG]
    1. Donovan Mitchell, Jazz
    Rank Last Week: No. 2

    Mitchell deserves more credit for his play of late, that's why he's now in the top spot.

    While Simmons gets to work with another franchise player in Joel Embiid, Mitchell just saw Utah's second-leading scorer traded at the deadline (Rodney Hood), and has only gotten 32 games out of center Rudy Gobert.

    The Jazz have won 11 straight, and Mitchell is the first rookie to lead his team in scoring during a winning streak that length.

    He leads all rookies in scoring (19.6) while shooting 35 percent from three, taking over six per game.

    Donovan Mitchell Ranks 7th in 4th Quarter Scoring (6.6 points on 58.6 TS%)

    Lou Williams, Lebron James, Jimmy Butler, Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, and James Harden are the only players in the NBA that average more points than Donovan Mitchell in the 4th Quarter.
     
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  20. Mecca

    Mecca Domino

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    Fun fact....

    I like debating * see arguing*..

    I REALLY like debating with you for 2 reasons:

    1. You are fiery.

    2. You actually know what the hell your talking about.

    :suds: