The Assists Thread

[MHSL82]

You mean to tell me that we can't get somebody to average significant assists with these qualifying: https://deadspin.com/are-these-assists-1821437746

 

[nuraman00]

I think the Ingram to Ball one might be an assist. I agree the other two aren't.

 

[MHSL82]

https://deadspin.com/nba-court-factors-how-assists-arent-as-unbiased-as-you-1694917271

 

[nuraman00]

How did they apply the adjustment? What did they do to the raw numbers?

 

[nuraman00]

For this formula, what's the difference between oppHomeA, and RoadA?

Are these referring to different games?



So say the Jazz play Game 1 at home, and Game 2 on the road.



Would they use the (HomeA+oppHomeA) / (HomeFG + oppHomeFG) term for game 1, and the (RoadA+oppRoadA)/(RoadFG + oppRoadFG) for game 2?

 

[MHSL82]

A local radio host or analyst today said that the goal would be for Mitchell to average "9, 10, or 11 assists per game. I would love that, but that's ridiculous. There are not very many players out there who could ever average that number of assists. Asking us to draft someone who has that mindset and now has Mitchell to play alongside him could perhaps get 7 to 9 assists per game, but looking at our system, that's not how we are built and players like Stockton don't come around very often. Chris Paul has the ball a lot and Westbrook does too, but above nine assists? Those are basically it. LeBron James averages a lot of assists as well at a bit under nine.

 

[nuraman00]

Lebron James had a career high 9.1 assists per game this year. He has lead his team in assists every year of his career. I think that's a cool stat.

As you said, the only guys that can average 9 assists are James, Paul, Westbrook, John Wall.

Rondo, if given the minutes.

With Rondo, there's negatives to giving him a lot of responsibility. For one, his defense has stunk ever since 2012.

Second, he was criticized earlier for holding the ball too much until he could get an assist. I personally don't think he's detrimental at it as others do, but I can accept others' concern about his style of play. Because he is more stationary than other PGs in history.

For Paul, I still think (and I'm not alone) that he gets assists because he holds the ball a lot, not because he breaks the defense down. There's negatives to his style of assists.

Westbrook has improved as a passer during his career, but his assists aren't the same as the best passers in history.

So I'd say only James and John Wall are the current active players who generate the most beneficial assists, and can generate 9 assists per game.

As you said, there's not many players that can average those assists, and I named some flaws with even those guys can.

Ben Simmons will probably average 9 assists a few times in his career. I'm not impressed by his assist yet.

Draymond Green could average 9 assists at some point, but like Simmons, I'm not impressed by those assists either.

Marcus Camby, Karl Malone, Brad Miller were some good passing bigs. They averaged 4 - 5 assists. Their assists were beneficial because they could get in the post, or at the top of the key, and find cutters. So they could generate halfcourt assists, while also promoting player movement.

Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan were other good passers as bigs.

Simmons and Green are good at making outlet passes, but that to me shouldn't be the staple / foundation of an offense.

 

[nuraman00]

About Rubio, he could get 9 assists per game, but I think there's a reason Minnesota never had a top offense with him being the main ball handler.

Minnesota's ORTGs were 25th, 18th, 25th during some of those years. A few of those years, they did also rank between 9th and 12th.

But I think the bad years say more about Rubio than the good years.

I think the problem with Rubio having the ball a lot, is both that shooters can lay off of him, and that he commits a lot of turnovers.

He has the 3rd highest turnover rate among guards 6'4" or shorter who played at least 6000 minutes since 2011-2012.

http://bkref.com/tiny/0xwXd

He just isn't as good at ball handling like other great PGs in history like Stockton or Nash.

So I think the way Utah uses him, is fine. If Rubio can make a play relatively quickly, they let him. If he can't, then Jingles or Mitchell will handle the ball, if it's on the perimeter.

That way Rubio isn't forced into those possessions where he has to take a bad shot or turn it over, like in Minnesota.


Mitchell is fine the way he is, he isn't going to be a high assisting playmaker with low turnovers too.

Either bring back Rubio, or find a player who can play a role similar.

James Harden also gets a lot of assists, but I have concerns about his style of play too.

 

[nuraman00]

Basically, because so few players can do what the great assisting PGs can do, I think the Jazz are doing the next best option.

Still have someone next to Mitchell who handles the ball more, but if they can't make a play within a certain period of time, they're encouraged to keep the ball moving to let someone else break the defense down.

That way, there's still ball movement and the offense doesn't wait for one person to be able to make a play that becomes less likely to happen.

I also think having this kind of system has made it easier on guys like Exum to step in and look comfortable. Exum has played great in his minutes, because he doesn't have to do something every time. Plus, he's still in development. So it's hard to ask him to be Rubio. He can come in and due what he can, without having everything completely rely on him.

I've been happy with Exum's performance in limited minutes. He looks like he knows what he's doing at both ends of the floor, and doesn't look lost or discouraged. And he's been able to play in some important moments too.

 

[nuraman00]

Jose Calderon was one of the more recent great assisting ball handling PGs.

Sadly, he sucks now, and I don't like watching him in Cleveland. He must suck a lot for me to say that. Everytime I see him do something, he disappoints.

He has a 1.7 PER in the playoffs this year!

 

[nuraman00]

Ok, one good passing PG in today's game: I'm a fan of Milos Teodosic on the Clippers. He has the passing, with some inconsistent 2-point shooting.

But he gets injured all the time. His best stretch of games was 12 in a row, and then 20 in a row. Can't rely on someone who can't stay healthy, so its a moot point. He might average 9 assists a game if he started somewhere, but he'd also be injured several times a year too.

So can't have the same level of excitement for him.

 

[nuraman00]

Jose Calderon was one of the more recent great assisting ball handling PGs.

Sadly, he sucks now, and I don't like watching him in Cleveland. He must suck a lot for me to say that. Everytime I see him do something, he disappoints.

He has a 1.7 PER in the playoffs this year!

Speaking of Calderon:

 

[MHSL82]

After saying all that I said, he got 11 assists tonight. Of course, that's not an average. Technically, in the last one game, he has averaged 11 assists per game. But if you look up Webster's dictionary definition of average, I wonder if it requires more than one. So technically, it's not an average.

 

[MHSL82]

Didn't notice that Nash has ONE more assist than Mark Jackson. Good job! Knock Jackson down a spot.

 

[nuraman00]

Didn't notice that Nash has ONE more assist than Mark Jackson. Good job! Knock Jackson down a spot.

Kidd and Nash both surpassed him.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Assists | Basketball-Reference.com

They are both in this year's Hall Of Fame class.

It looks like Kidd knocked Airball Jordan down a spot in steals, too.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Steals | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[MHSL82]

Kidd and Nash both surpassed him.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Assists | Basketball-Reference.com

They are both in this year's Hall Of Fame class.

It looks like Kidd knocked Airball Jordan down a spot in steals, too.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Steals | Basketball-Reference.com

Chris Paul will knock Malone down a spot this year and could get to 9th place with a really good year. 10th with a good year. 8th with a "how the hell did you do that" year. LeBron will climb, but not top ten yet. So that either shows that Jordan is much better defensively or the game is played differently or both. I think both.

 

[nuraman00]

I didn't know Karl Malone had more steals than Mookie Blaylock.

That is pretty cool.

I think I did know about Hakeem being up there, though.

 

[MHSL82]

On February 1, 1995, Jazz guard John Stockton broke Magic Johnson's assist record to become the NBA's all-time leader.

Stockton would go on to tally 5,884 more assists in his career for a total of 15,806—a number unlikely to be matched.

#TakeNote | #NBAAssistWeek

 

[MHSL82]

Nash: 'I probably should have shot the ball 20 times a game'

 

[nuraman00]

Nash: 'I probably should have shot the ball 20 times a game'

Good find.

I don't think Steve Nash should have shot more overall, despite how efficient he was.

But perhaps he could have been like a Chris Paul, in that if the team needs him to shot in a close game, he would shoot.

Actually, the times when he would shoot those shots, I'd call him Steve Brash.

Overall though, I probably wouldn't have changed anything about his teams' offense. They were great.

The defensive end was usually the issue.