Taking a Step Back and Changing Views

[Orlando Eagles]

Just has to share this a bit......McNabb.

Being June.... and being that there really isn't anything worth seriously discussing.... I have been finding some joy (and some pain) in finding all the full games from the past you can watch, including:

A MNF game in 2004. In Dallas. Madden and Michaels...MNF still on ABC. This is the one TO caught a bazillion TDs and did the pose, arms out, on the star in the end zone.

The pickle juice game with a young, lean and quick McNabb

The NFC Championship loss to the Rams

The 2006 loss to the Bucs where Matt Bryant hit the walk off winner from a million miles away (my old board knew this too well....I was there for that. I paid a lot to be there for that).

So....back to McNabb. I have a McNabb jersey. I have not even pulled it out in many years. I swore I would never wear it again. Respect to the man...he was part of some amazing years. But, the way it still ended....with McNabb throwing consistent worm burners, if he wasn't sailing a receivers hands by 12 feet too high. And then to see him show up in Redskin colors.....nah....no thanks Donnie Mac.

But.....going back through these old games.....I found my mind changing back again. Especially if you watch McNabb 2000-2004. From a young and fast guy that can kill you with his legs to a rather fearless passer. He always had his little faults....they never really improved. But, we had a good one there for all those years.

I might even wear the white #5 jersey again some day

 

[Iggloo]

He was good enough to win with, if we had run it more and he's had some better receivers.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

He was good enough to win with, if we had run it more and he's had some better receivers.

Great point....I went through that a few times while watching these games.....give the man some damn receivers. That was a complaint for years. Gave him TO in 2004 and look what happened (not that it was the coaches or front offices fault that fell apart).

Food for thought with young Carson coming up.....keep giving him some receivers damnit!

 

[Sparky]

I was in tampa stadium in 2006

 

[Iggloo]

I think it is interesting to look at this Eagles offseason through the prism of McNabb. I really think Lurie has learned his lesson and told Howie to get the new young QB, Wentz, some damn veteran receivers pronto.

Now they arguably tried that with Torrance Small and Charles Johnson early on, of course, but those guys were scrubs. Jeffery, if healthy, is not a scrub.

 

[Iggloo]

Also, to me the most painful moment in Eagles history will always be the NFC title game loss to Tampa Bay. That was our year IMO. We had the best team in football, a stacked veteran defense, a great special teams unit, and a flawed but decent offense with a good offensive line.

We should have run a lot more in that game than we did.

 

[eaglesnut]

Those Washington years were my favorite.

McNabb was a fucking clown that stunted his own growth as a QB for two reasons. His overall lack of cognitive ability and his short-sighted racism.

Thank God for Andy Reid getting something out of him. He had to remake the entire offense into mostly not a WCO because nabby couldn't hit anyone in stride and couldn't be trusted to get completions on 3rd and short.

Without Jim Johnson and the defense killing everyone early in his career it would have been a short one.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

I was in tampa stadium in 2006

It was hot as a motherfucker....wasn't it?

 

[Iron Eagle]

Just has to share this a bit......McNabb.

Being June.... and being that there really isn't anything worth seriously discussing.... I have been finding some joy (and some pain) in finding all the full games from the past you can watch, including:

A MNF game in 2004. In Dallas. Madden and Michaels...MNF still on ABC. This is the one TO caught a bazillion TDs and did the pose, arms out, on the star in the end zone.

The pickle juice game with a young, lean and quick McNabb

The NFC Championship loss to the Rams

The 2006 loss to the Bucs where Matt Bryant hit the walk off winner from a million miles away (my old board knew this too well....I was there for that. I paid a lot to be there for that).

So....back to McNabb. I have a McNabb jersey. I have not even pulled it out in many years. I swore I would never wear it again. Respect to the man.

I might even wear the white #5 jersey again some day

I never stopped wearing mine. He was unquestionably flawed as a QB and the entire relationship went sour but the good times outweighed the bad.

Not being in Philly, I can understand others who don't feel that way.

 

[I miss Dawkins]

He was good enough to win with, if we had run it more and he's had some better receivers.

exactly. How could someone installing the #1 most pass happy offense of it's time be satisfied with the 32nd set of starting WR's??? And then to get within 1 game of the SB so many times?????? It was just common sense - something Reid had little of. I turned on Reid after the 2001 season. 2002-2005 just solidified it imho.

Of course, we were also handicapped by a capologist that was more concerned with increasing the amount of cap not spent, than actually improving the team and winning a SB. Business vs Sports can often have conflicting objectives - and that kept us from winning a SB ring.

McNabb was always good enough to win with and I took a lot of heat for a long time saying that. I never liked him off the field, and lost even more respect for him after he retired. But i'm also grateful for the years he gave us. Going to the SB the moment we got a real WR should have been eye opening and telling - but we screwed that up to. Talk about being so close, and yet so far away.

I prefer to wear my throwback Cunningham Jersey over McNabb, but I have my Jersey still and will one day break it out again. My respect for Cunningham actually grew after he left the NFL. But honestly, I'm too much into Wentz for now. McNabb will have to ride the closet a bit longer for me.

But he was definitely good enough to win it all. A point I've made in the past in his defense.... the year McNabb lost the SB - his playoff record was actually better than the playoff season Peyton Manning actually WON the SB.

2006 Peyton WINS SB: over 4 games of playoffs: 3 TD passes; yet 7 INT's
2004 McNabb Loses SB: Over 3 games of playoffs: 7 TD passes; yet 3 INT's

*more than 2 times more TD's over fewer games with less than half the no of INT's.

McNabb was always good enough to win, if he wasn't asked to shoulder as much as he did and was surrounded with more WR talent; we had a coach that actually game planned against the opposition; and a capologist that understood money invested in talent is a worthwhile investment because a SB ring is more important than profit.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

I never stopped wearing mine. He was unquestionably flawed as a QB and the entire relationship went sour but the good times outweighed the bad.

Not being in Philly, I can understand others who don't feel that way.

Good times outweighed the bad....well said. I think it's taken me a few years to come around to that. Plus it helped to watch games in 2000 and remember all of that promise. Some of it came through....some of it didn't. But it was an exciting time.

 

[Sparky]

It was hot as a motherfucker....wasn't it?

I'm not recalling the heat but i do recall us nit running the ball against a crappy bucs team, letting them intecept it to allow them to lead most of the game then Westbrook had the amazing screen pass td with a minute left only to have all the bucs fans around me standing and screaming as the 63 yd fg went thru...could not believe it

 

[Orlando Eagles]

I'm not recalling the heat but i do recall us nit running the ball against a crappy bucs team, letting them intecept it to allow them to lead most of the game then Westbrook had the amazing screen pass td with a minute left only to have all the bucs fans around me standing and screaming as the 63 yd fg went thru...could not believe it

Yeah....the one thing I hoped going into a game I paid good cash to see live was to not have one of "those" eagles under Reid games where the game plan is trumped early and the adjustments come slowly. Three INTs in the first half and two returned and we were still passing the ball.

The record tying field goal would not have happened or mattered with Westbrook. That screen pass to the house was such an amazing thing to see live.

 

[eaglesnut]

letting them intecept it

Such a disgrace. Interception after interception in nearly all of the important games in his career.

 

[eaglesnut]

Three INTs in the first half and two returned

Total bum.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

Total bum.

But wait....Brett Favre was a gunslinger for the same thing.

Not trying to stir the pot. It was a total mess at those times. But it's funny how much I'm reminded of where I put a lot of the blame (rightly I think). I always put most of it with Reid. I'm reminded that I witnessed live one of those games that led me to an impression of Reid that many on my old board might know me for. Reid could be so arrogant. I'm betting I could find a Chiefs fan who will agree with this.

He was going to call the plays he was going to call. He was going to run it his way. And in many ways McNabb was a victim (and fair to say a complicit victim) of it. Logic simply says if you are not passing as often you will not throw ints as often. Still, right or wrong, the main knock I still hold on McNabb was he let Reid coach him into a mold that was not fully him. He had a wicked capability to be mobile and improvise. I get the logic that such play shortens careers. But he should have stuck with it. I can remember specific ints where he tried to fit it in when he surely could have just scrambled for at least a few yards.

How is that relevant to today? Well, we have a Reid disciple that I'm still not fully sold will not be Reid, Jr on these things. Carson is not a scrambler like McNabb. But any developing qb can benefit from more balance in the playcalling. McNabb surely would have.

 

[Sparky]

Yeah my deal in that game especially was reid the mad scientist. There was no reason to throw the ball up there so often, the bucs in that game were totally out manned on offense. If we run tge ball they could not out score us, yet reid needed to outsmart himself...again.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

Yeah my deal in that game especially was reid the mad scientist. There was no reason to throw the ball up there so often, the bucs in that game were totally out manned on offense. If we run tge ball they could not out score us, yet reid needed to outsmart himself...again.

That's around when it started to crystallize for me. Within a few years the term "arrogant" started sticking in my mind.

Of course....we were infected by a much more insidious arrogance directly after Reid. But it still was what it was

 

[eaglesnut]

But wait....Brett Favre was a gunslinger for the same thing.

Not trying to stir the pot. It was a total mess at those times. But it's funny how much I'm reminded of where I put a lot of the blame (rightly I think). I always put most of it with Reid. I'm reminded that I witnessed live one of those games that led me to an impression of Reid that many on my old board might know me for. Reid could be so arrogant. I'm betting I could find a Chiefs fan who will agree with this.

He was going to call the plays he was going to call. He was going to run it his way. And in many ways McNabb was a victim (and fair to say a complicit victim) of it. Logic simply says if you are not passing as often you will not throw ints as often. Still, right or wrong, the main knock I still hold on McNabb was he let Reid coach him into a mold that was not fully him. He had a wicked capability to be mobile and improvise. I get the logic that such play shortens careers. But he should have stuck with it. I can remember specific ints where he tried to fit it in when he surely could have just scrambled for at least a few yards.

How is that relevant to today? Well, we have a Reid disciple that I'm still not fully sold will not be Reid, Jr on these things. Carson is not a scrambler like McNabb. But any developing qb can benefit from more balance in the playcalling. McNabb surely would have.

McNabb never threw picks in the regular season and always threw picks in the postseason. He couldn't hack it.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

McNabb never threw picks in the regular season and always threw picks in the postseason. He couldn't hack it.

We remember the playoff ones all the more. But I was just talking about a regular season game I was at where he did just that. Three horrific ones in the first half. And then, but form a 63 yard field goal, we would have won the game anyway.

I remember this gripe...how to expect Andy to come off of his arrogance if they keep pulling such games out. Only to get to the playoffs where there is no room to err.

Still.....looking back....good times!