Sportshoopla Top 25 Discussion thread

[ericd7633]

I never asked for credit. I made a prediction based on sound logic and I was wrong. Not exactly a first in the world of sports. And as I said, I stand by what I said about them last year. They were an extremely unimpressive 10-3, given the weak schedule they faced.

I also am not sure I agree on their schedule. Road games at USC, Utah, and Washington State with Washington at home isn't murderer's row by any means, but it wouldn't even slightly shock me if they dropped all 4. They're unproven on offense and have to replace a generational talent that was still only able to guide them to 10-3 last year with a cupcake schedule. I'd be significantly more surprised by them being 4th this year compared to being 7-5.

I still don't understand how all this translates to me being a homer? That's fine if you disagree with me regarding schedule. I think they'll lose @ USC. But I have them beating Utah who only returns 9 starters and Washington State is always a weird team. That game definitely is a potential loss, but obviously for projection purposes, I think they win there. I think Washington and Oregon, behind Stanford will end up being the other 2 best teams in the division, Stanford gets both at home. I think Stanford will go 8-1, but have the tiebreaker over Washington who I also project be 8-1 in conference.

 

[Across The Field]

I still don't understand how all this translates to me being a homer? That's fine if you disagree with me regarding schedule. I think they'll lose @ USC. But I have them beating Utah who only returns 9 starters and Washington State is always a weird team. That game definitely is a potential loss, but obviously for projection purposes, I think they win there. I think Washington and Oregon, behind Stanford will end up being the other 2 best teams in the division, Stanford gets both at home. I think Stanford will go 8-1, but have the tiebreaker over Washington who I also project be 8-1 in conference.

Fair enough. Not sure how losing by far your best offensive and defensive players project to reversing two blowout losses against Washington and Wazzou, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[ericd7633]

Fair enough. Not sure how losing by far your best offensive and defensive players project to reversing two blowout losses against Washington and Wazzou, but whatever floats your boat.

We'll see what happens. If Chryst is healthy he was good for them last year(he didn't start against UW, Wazzu and CU). And obviously Love isn't McCaffrey, but he's been really good in his two seasons, and it's not like he isn't a talented RB(4* coming out of high school). And like I said, Stanford has a top 10 LB unit and top 5 secondary unit.

 

[Across The Field]

We'll see what happens. If Chryst is healthy he was good for them last year(he didn't start against UW, Wazzu and CU). And obviously Love isn't McCaffrey, but he's been really good in his two seasons, and it's not like he isn't a talented RB(4* coming out of high school). And like I said, Stanford has a top 10 LB unit and top 5 secondary unit.

Chryst looked decent for not facing a single team above .500 until the bowl game, and he didn't do shit then. Also, no more McCaffery to bail him out. There were 3 WRs for Stanford last year that caught more than 1 TD; two of them are gone. Love is good, but he's never had to prove anything himself. He's been nothing but a breather back for CM.

Of the 35 TDs this offense was able to score last year (pathetic), 20 of them are gone. They are significantly more green than you're really aware of. Their defense will be good, but Thomas was a big part of it. I just don't see how they're going to be able to keep up with the offenses at USC, Washington, and Wazzou, and for that matter Utah and Oregon. Hell, I'd take ND's offense over Stanford's this year.

 

[ericd7633]

Chryst looked decent for not facing a single team above .500 until the bowl game, and he didn't do shit then. Also, no more McCaffery to bail him out. There were 3 WRs for Stanford last year that caught more than 1 TD; two of them are gone. Love is good, but he's never had to prove anything himself. He's been nothing but a breather back for CM.

Of the 35 TDs this offense was able to score last year (pathetic), 20 of them are gone. They are significantly more green than you're really aware of. Their defense will be good, but Thomas was a big part of it. I just don't see how they're going to be able to keep up with the offenses at USC, Washington, and Wazzou, and for that matter Utah and Oregon. Hell, I'd take ND's offense over Stanford's this year.

He was injured in the 1st Qtr. of the bowl game, up until then he was playing good. I think with the combo of the O-line and a healthy Chryst they'll be fine offensively. And Love has proven he can carry the load. He did so in the bowl game when McCaffrey skipped it and also against ND when McCaffrey was hurt. They aren't going to light up the scoreboard or anything, but they'll be efficient I think.

 

[Across The Field]

He was injured in the 2nd Qtr. of the bowl game, up until then he was playing good. I think with the combo of the O-line and a healthy Chryst they'll be fine offensively. And Love has proven he can carry the load. He did so in the bowl game when McCaffrey skipped it and also against ND when McCaffrey was hurt. They aren't going to light up the scoreboard or anything, but they'll be efficient I think.

I guess their defense is going to be one of the best of all time if you think they're the 4th best team in the nation with a barely "efficient" offense. Teams like PSU, FSU, USC, Washington, and Oklahoma have offenses that would run circles around them with the proven firepower they all have. Each of them has a legit Heisman candidate on their offense while Stanford's best player has a career highlight of "played well against the 113th ranked run defense (North Carolina) in the nation one time."

 

[ericd7633]

I guess their defense is going to be one of the best of all time if you think they're the 4th best team in the nation with a barely "efficient" offense. Teams like PSU, FSU, USC, Washington, and Oklahoma have offenses that would run circles around them with the proven firepower they all have. Each of them has a legit Heisman candidate on their offense while Stanford's best player has a career highlight of "played well against the 113th ranked run defense (North Carolina) in the nation one time."

I think they can be just as good as last year, in which they were a top 10 defense. They are really good in the back 7 on defense. Certainly Thomas is a big hole to fill. Yes, all those teams have firepower on offense, but teams like PSU and Oklahoma, specifically, were much worse defensively last year and have to replace more on that side of the ball. I think FSU is more talented than Stanford is, but I think they lose to Bama and @ Clemson so therefore, I have them behind Stanford. With his expanded role, I think Love will be a top 10/12 RB this year.

 

[Across The Field]

I think they can be just as good as last year, in which they were a top 10 defense. They are really good in the back 7 on defense. Certainly Thomas is a big hole to fill. Yes, all those teams have firepower on offense, but teams like PSU and Oklahoma, specifically, were much worse defensively last year and have to replace more on that side of the ball. I think FSU is more talented than Stanford is, but I think they lose to Bama and @ Clemson so therefore, I have them behind Stanford. With his expanded role, I think Love will be a top 10/12 RB this year.

Lot of reaches there. This is what I'm talking about. Oklahoma is definitely deficient on defense, and PSU isn't great, but Stanford was hardly great. They put up good numbers against a largely joke of a schedule. They reminded me a lot of 2015 Iowa, and I could see 2017 going for them the same way 2016 did for Iowa. They're severely limited on offense; moreso than I'd say Oklahoma and Penn State are on defense.

Also - if you think USC is better, why do you have them behind?

 

[ericd7633]

Lot of reaches there. This is what I'm talking about. Oklahoma is definitely deficient on defense, and PSU isn't great, but Stanford was hardly great. They put up good numbers against a largely joke of a schedule. They reminded me a lot of 2015 Iowa, and I could see 2017 going for them the same way 2016 did for Iowa. They're severely limited on offense; moreso than I'd say Oklahoma and Penn State are on defense.

Also - if you think USC is better, why do you have them behind?

What was a reach? They were 10th and 11th in defense in terms of efficiency last year. They return 8 starters. OU was 43rd and 53rd and return 6 starters. Penn State was 35th and 48th and return 6 starters. Stanford was pretty significantly better than both last year. I think when you're projecting ahead if you combine offense and defense it'll be a wash between OU/PSU/Stanford.

I think USC beats them at home in the 2nd game of the season, but Stanford beats them in a rematch in the CCG. Which is why I have them 4th and USC 5th.

 

[Across The Field]

What was a reach? They were 10th and 11th in defense in terms of efficiency last year. They return 8 starters. OU was 43rd and 53rd and return 6 starters. Penn State was 35th and 48th and return 6 starters. Stanford was pretty significantly better than both last year. I think when you're projecting ahead if you combine offense and defense it'll be a wash between OU/PSU/Stanford.

I think USC beats them at home in the 2nd game of the season, but Stanford beats them in a rematch in the CCG. Which is why I have them 4th and USC 5th.

Thinking Stanford's defense is better than Oklahoma or Penn State's offense. Again, those two actually played teams last year; Stanford didn't really. Also, Love demonstrated his ability to "carry the load" against three of the worst run defenses in all of CFB. Saying he'll be a top 10-12 back all of the sudden is a HUGE reach. Guys like Guice, Freeman, Barkley, Chubb, Mike Weber, Ronald Jones, Bo Scarborough, Myles Gaskin, Akrum Wadley, Kalen Ballage, Justin Jackson, LJ Shelton, Ralph Webb, Phillip Lindsay, etc. should all be considered well above him given overall bodies of work. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.

Again, this is why I think you're being kind of a homer. This offense is anemic as they come in the top 25, and they're supposed to be a 1-loss team? How are they somehow beating the same Washington and Wazzou teams that crushed them last year? How would they ever beat USC, even in a rematch? As I said at the beginning, I just don't get it.

 

[ericd7633]

Thinking Stanford's defense is better than Oklahoma or Penn State's offense. Again, those two actually played teams last year; Stanford didn't really. Also, Love demonstrated his ability to "carry the load" against three of the worst run defenses in all of CFB. Saying he'll be a top 10-12 back all of the sudden is a HUGE reach. Guys like Guice, Freeman, Barkley, Chubb, Mike Weber, Ronald Jones, Bo Scarborough, Myles Gaskin, Akrum Wadley, Kalen Ballage, Justin Jackson, LJ Shelton, Ralph Webb, Phillip Lindsay, etc. should all be considered well above him given overall bodies of work. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.

Again, this is why I think you're being kind of a homer. This offense is anemic as they come in the top 25, and they're supposed to be a 1-loss team? How are they somehow beating the same Washington and Wazzou teams that crushed them last year? How would they ever beat USC, even in a rematch? As I said at the beginning, I just don't get it.

I never said Stanford's defense was better than than Oklahoma's offense last year, but I think it was for sure better than Penn State's offense last year. Projecting ahead, I think it'll be a wash in terms of defense/offense(particularly because I think OU/PSU won't see much improvement on defense). I think Penn State and OU will be elite/great on offense and Stanford will be that on defense. And I think Penn State/OU will be about 25-40 in terms of defense and Stanford will be in about the same boat offensively. Maybe I'll be wrong. I still don't think it's me being homer, because I have no reason to try and elevate Stanford into something I don't think they are.

And if you extrapolate Love's touches out to what he would get being the #1 option, I would say he'll pretty easily go above 1,500 yards.

 

[Across The Field]

I never said Stanford's defense was better than than Oklahoma's offense last year, but I think it was for sure better than Penn State's offense last year. Projecting ahead, I think it'll be a wash in terms of defense/offense(particularly because I think OU/PSU won't see much improvement on defense). I think Penn State and OU will be elite/great on offense and Stanford will be that on defense. And I think Penn State/OU will be about 25-40 in terms of defense and Stanford will be in about the same boat offensively. Maybe I'll be wrong. I still don't think it's me being homer, because I have no reason to try and elevate Stanford into something I don't think they are.

And if you extrapolate Love's touches out to what he would get being the #1 option, I would say he'll pretty easily go above 1,500 yards.

I definitely wouldn't say it was "for sure" better than PSU's offense, especially by the end of the year. They also return all but 1 major offensive playmaker. Barkley and McSorely are one of the best offensive backfields in the NCAA, while Gesicki is one of the best playmaking TEs and Daesean Hamilton is a beast at WR.

Also - how does Stanford, who was 87th in the NCAA in total offense and 83rd in scoring offense, suddenly jump to the 25-40 range when they lose the majority of their offense from last year including arguably their best offensive player ever? Is Bryce Love & Co. only going to be facing dogshit defenses like in the only 3 games he's been productive in up to this point? Because that's the only way they're suddenly 25th-40th overall on offense and he's going above 1,500 yards.

 

[ericd7633]

I definitely wouldn't say it was "for sure" better than PSU's offense, especially by the end of the year. They also return all but 1 major offensive playmaker. Barkley and McSorely are one of the best offensive backfields in the NCAA, while Gesicki is one of the best playmaking TEs and Daesean Hamilton is a beast at WR.

Also - how does Stanford, who was 87th in the NCAA in total offense and 83rd in scoring offense, suddenly jump to the 25-40 range when they lose the majority of their offense from last year including arguably their best offensive player ever? Is Bryce Love & Co. only going to be facing dogshit defenses like in the only 3 games he's been productive in up to this point? Because that's the only way they're suddenly 25th-40th overall on offense and he's going above 1,500 yards.

Well it was statistically better, and I'm basing that on the entire season. Penn State was very good offensively towards the end of the year. Stanford's probably wasn't as good towards the end of the year, but full body of work Stanford's defense was better than PSU's offense was last year.

And I'm basing Stanford's offensive production on a healthy Chryst playing the entire season. Stanford will never be highly rated in those offensive metrics you mentioned because of the nature of their offense. No better example of that than their 2015 season when they were on average a top 5 offense in efficiency and weren't even top 25 in total yards. And they don't lose the majority of their offense. They lost 1 WR, 1 O-lineman and McCaffrey.

We'll see what happens. You aren't going to change my mind, which is why I didn't critique your top 25. It's not worth it because it won't change anything. The good thing is Stanford plays next Saturday so we'll be able to get a look at them earlier than most teams.

 

[Across The Field]

Well it was statistically better, and I'm basing that on the entire season. Penn State was very good offensively towards the end of the year. Stanford's probably wasn't as good towards the end of the year, but full body of work Stanford's defense was better than PSU's offense was last year.

And I'm basing Stanford's offensive production on a healthy Chryst playing the entire season. Stanford will never be highly rated in those offensive metrics you mentioned because of the nature of their offense. No better example of that than their 2015 season when they were on average a top 5 offense in efficiency and weren't even top 25 in total yards. And they don't lose the majority of their offense. They lost 1 WR, 1 O-lineman and McCaffrey.

We'll see what happens. You aren't going to change my mind, which is why I didn't critique your top 25. It's not worth it because it won't change anything. The good thing is Stanford plays next Saturday so we'll be able to get a look at them earlier than most teams.

Penn State ranked 45th in total defense and 35th in scoring defense, so for the whole year, their defense was significantly better than Stanford's offense. Stanford ranked 32nd in total defense and 17th in scoring defense while PSU ranked 28th in total offense and 21st in scoring offense, so that's a wash. Overall, Penn State was very clearly a much more well-rounded team, just as they undoubtedly are this year, which is what makes you pick of Stanford over them very homerish.

Chryst is decent (hasn't proven anything against an actual team yet), but he has almost 0 experienced players to help him on offense. Want to talk efficiency? Stanford's offense was a robust 55th in the nation. That isn't about style; it's just a shitty offense, especially when you consider their creampuff schedule. And yes, they lost the majority of their offense. They can return 8 starters, but the majority of the actual production is gone. Going by your assumption, they'll have someone just as good as Christian McCaffery lining up on offense this year, which is obviously a very stupid thing to say.

I won't change your mind because you're a Stanford homer. All statistical evidence points to Stanford not being anywhere near a top 5 team, which they aren't except in your mind, because you're biased towards them. It just is what it is.

 

[Edisto_Tiger]

Jesus! Scrolling through the last 40 post be like ...

Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Bama Fan, Edisto, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Some other random fan, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, ...

 

[ericd7633]

Penn State ranked 45th in total defense and 35th in scoring defense, so for the whole year, their defense was significantly better than Stanford's offense. Stanford ranked 32nd in total defense and 17th in scoring defense while PSU ranked 28th in total offense and 21st in scoring offense, so that's a wash. Overall, Penn State was very clearly a much more well-rounded team, just as they undoubtedly are this year, which is what makes you pick of Stanford over them very homerish.

Chryst is decent (hasn't proven anything against an actual team yet), but he has almost 0 experienced players to help him on offense. Want to talk efficiency? Stanford's offense was a robust 55th in the nation. That isn't about style; it's just a shitty offense, especially when you consider their creampuff schedule. And yes, they lost the majority of their offense. They can return 8 starters, but the majority of the actual production is gone. Going by your assumption, they'll have someone just as good as Christian McCaffery lining up on offense this year, which is obviously a very stupid thing to say.

I won't change your mind because you're a Stanford homer. All statistical evidence points to Stanford not being anywhere near a top 5 team, which they aren't except in your mind, because you're biased towards them. It just is what it is.

I have question marks about Penn State's defense, and with good reason. They weren't good last year and only return 6 starters. Their defense was better than Stanford's offense last year, and overall they were a better team, which is why they finished the season ranked higher. I think Penn State will lose at Ohio State, thus there's no way for them to win the B1G CG, and they won't have the signature win that Ohio State had last year OOC to bump over Ohio State to get into the playoff IMO. My main motive for having Stanford where I have them is schedule. All things considered I think it's somewhat favorable(getting Oregon/UW at home). If they lose to USC(which I think they will in the 2nd game) and then lose another game(whether they drop a game like Wazzu/Utah) than I'll be wrong.

I think this team could be similar to what it was in 2015. If I'm wrong, I'll be fucking wrong and admit it, and you can gloat and quote this.

It's never chalk with who goes to the CFP, in the last 2 years there were 3 teams that were ranked outside the top 10 that made the CFP.

 

[ericd7633]

Jesus! Scrolling through the last 40 post be like ...

Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Bama Fan, Edisto, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Some other random fan, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, Eric, Across The Field, Eric, Across the Field, ...

I'm the biggest Stanford homer Notre Dame fan ever.

 

[Deep Creek]

Alright, you motherfuckers, who you got winning the ACC? FSU? You think they are that much better than us? GTFO! We have them bastards at home and our D is going to eat them alive. The ACC is ours!!

I'm going with your Tigers ET. I think they'll distribute things and prove to be a big problem for defenses.

But, your guys will stump their toe somewhere.

 

[Deep Creek]

And yes, my top 25 is flawless.

Aren't everyone's?

 

[Across The Field]

I have question marks about Penn State's defense, and with good reason. They weren't good last year and only return 6 starters. Their defense was better than Stanford's offense last year, and overall they were a better team, which is why they finished the season ranked higher. I think Penn State will lose at Ohio State, thus there's no way for them to win the B1G CG, and they won't have the signature win that Ohio State had last year OOC to bump over Ohio State to get into the playoff IMO. My main motive for having Stanford where I have them is schedule. All things considered I think it's somewhat favorable(getting Oregon/UW at home). If they lose to USC(which I think they will in the 2nd game) and then lose another game(whether they drop a game like Wazzu/Utah) than I'll be wrong.

I think this team could be similar to what it was in 2015. If I'm wrong, I'll be fucking wrong and admit it, and you can gloat and quote this.

It's never chalk with who goes to the CFP, in the last 2 years there were 3 teams that were ranked outside the top 10 that made the CFP.

So you really don't actually believe Stanford is the #4 team in the nation. You just think their schedule is weak and the rest of the Pac 12 is weak outside of one game vs USC?