Discussion in 'NBA Basketball Forum' started by Rock Strongo, Jul 3, 2018.
you mean, 30 years ago?
its more about a guy taking a deal far below his market value (injury or no injury) simply to fit into his new teams cap.
thats what i take issue with.
Any time a player takes less money, he's taking less than his market value.
In a case like Boogie's...his injury is a real concern and the offers for him weren't what he (or most folks) were expecting. So, he takes a 1 year "make good" offer so that he can try to show that he's worth the kind of deal that he would have gotten had he not been hurt.
In most cases, a top level player isn't taking far below his market value. He's taking a few million less so that the team can sign role players (who are often taking less for a shot at a ring) and/or so that another top level player can be signed/re-signed.
i dunno. times have changed. i never thought id see barkley, malone, etc do this. eras.
Do you have an example you are thinking of?
not that i can think of, if you're angling at the celtics. im talking about cousins.
The problem with comparing eras is that, back then, players didn't have the freedom that they do now.
There's a lot of romanticism when the "old guard" say things like "we weren't trying to team up, we were trying to beat each other" or "I would never have left to go play with that guy".
But we don't really know what they would have done if they had the freedom today's players have.
For example, as much as Magic and Bird like to talk about how they motivated each other and how badly they wanted to beat each other...how many more rings may each of them have if they had teamed up?
Or, how many more titles might they have if MJ had the freedom to join one of them when he came into the league?
Also, as players have been given more freedom of movement, we have typically seen older guys moving around late in their careers trying to chase rings as role players. The only real difference is that guys have figured out that if they start doing that earlier in their careers, they can get more titles. Or at least get more credit for the titles they win.
So it's really more of a natural progression, imo.
Cousins is a unique case because of his injury and the current cap situation. He could have taken a larger deal with the Pelicans but for only 2 years. But if he feels he is going to bounce back completely, then taking a one year deal on a winning team like the Warriors and then going for the big pay day next year, which would almost certainly be a 100+ million dollar deal, makes a lot of sense.
I don't think there were a lot of people knocking down his door, to be honest.
Yeah, from the info that's out there, it looks like he was expecting more offers for more money than were coming in. So he decided to contact the Warriors to see if he can get a ring while hopefully playing well enough to get himself a big contract.
Imo, he probably jumped too soon. I think the offers may have increased if he had been more patient. But it's hard to argue with what he chose to do.
I do think other offers would have come in. But if he has a good season with the Warriors he is going to get much better offers next season when half the league has cap space to spend.
He's taking a bet on himself.
Yep, and probably collecting a ring while doing so.
I didn't read through 10 pages of this, but this is a problem the league built into it's very structure. But it's also compounded by the very nature of the game.
In baseball, even the biggest stars go to bat all by themselves and fail way more often than they succeed. And they may bat 4 times in a game. Pitchers only play like once a week, and often only play like 2/3's of a game. It's an individual sport for the most part, but you watch for the team.
Football QB's can be huge stars. The top 4-5 QB's basically name their own price and can make as much as revenue as they want. Those guys can get 10% or more of the teams while salary cap. They are worth more than any other player. But not more than every other player. There's a balancing act there and if mostly involved trying to get away with paying 4 million for a good left guard instead of 4.5 million for a great one. You have to build a team. Its completely a team game, you cheer for teams.
Hockey players are on the ice, for like 30 seconds at a time. Plus nobody cares about hockey. Team game, you cheer for teams.
Basketball though, different in so many ways. First of all they're not wearing formal uniforms, it's just shorts and tank tops. They don't have helmets or other equipment getting in the way. You see the guys. They don't sit on the bench in shifts, they don't take defense off, they don't wait while their teammates take turns batting, they don't play once every 5-6 games. You can go to games just to see one individual. And although they're just 1 of 5 on the court at a time, a single player can have a bigger impact than even a NFL QB. One player can easily be 50% of a team. It's called a team game, but people cheer for individuals more than any other sport.
So you have 2 huge factors.
#1. Basketball's best players are among the biggest most marketable athletes in the world. Hence they can make enough money in ad revenue to make up for taking less upfront. Especially true if they go someplace that would increase their marketability, or someplace with additional marketing opportunities. Like going someplace where you're in championship contention, joining/forming a "superteam" which will increase your coverage, or going to the biggest cities.
There's a reason you don't see players flocking to Minnesota, but instead talk about New York, New Jersey, Miami, and especially LA.
#2. They structured the league in a way that benefits the majority of their players, and somewhat stops their players from looking too out of touch with reality. Every single team was allowed to offer Lebron James a "max" contract, so why not take the one in a big market or with a winning team. It's why only 3-4 teams were ever even in the running to sign him. Or any other big time FA. But what if a team had been able to offer him like 90 million per year or something truly obscene? He proved with Cleveland that he could take a underralanted team to the finals. What if a team offered him 90% of their entire salary cap and filled the team with scraps, castoffs and rookies? Would Golden State be a superteam if KD had been offered 50 million a year to go someplace else?
Set price contracts, and the availability of advertising revenue prevent the NBA from ever being truly competitive for every team.
The players today make exponentially more, so taking 20 mil instead of 28 or whatever still makes you very rich. Malone and Barkley were making like 8-10 mil per year in the 80s and 90s, still great money but a lot less so take ng a discount was a much bigger deal. Shoe contracts were much less too.
Times have changed.
didn't Barkley end his career with Houston chasing a ring and Malone with the Lakers doing the same?
Karl Malone along with Gary Payton joined the Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal Lakers.
both were corpses WELL past their prime. they also didnt take ridiculously low offers to join those teams. malone got a 1.5 million 1 year deal, at age 40.
barkley played the last 4 years of his career in houston, hardly the same as boogie. (and yeah, i remember charles playing charity minutes on one leg).
malone was 40, and signed a 1 year 1.5 mil deal
the glove was a has been by the time he go to LA, and it was even worse when he got here. he was also hanging on at the end of his career, like malone...unlike boogie.
Malone may have been 40, but he still played 32 minutes and averaged 13.2 pts and 8.7 rebs as a third option behind Shaq and Kobe on the defending champs. That may be down for Karl, but far from washed up. He took far less money to squeeze in with the defending champs than he could have gotten elsewhere and made them the prohibitive favorite for the championship. Sounds like a very similar situation. Hopefully the pistons can pull off another miracle.
yes, its similar. ones 40, ones...27.
a guy in his prime vs a guy hanging on, which malone was at 40. also, didnt malone hurt his knee that year too? he missed half the season almost.
Could Malone have made more money signing elsewhere? Yes.
Did he sign at a discount to play for the favored defending champions? Yes.
Did he do so taking a lesser role on the team? Yes.
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