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SEC will now allow grad transfers to transfer in conference immediately.

ralphiewvu

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They can transfer if they want, but they have to sit out a year because of NCAA rules...

None of that means they aren’t living up to their commitment. An anymore they don’t have to sit out a year if they are a grad transfer. That’s what we are talking about.
 

WizardHawk

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Honestly they should do away with the requirements that grad transfers can only happen if the school doesn't have their grad program. They did their 4 years and got their degree. Their eligibility to play is THEIR eligibility. Who cares if it amounts to free agency of sorts. Kids should be allowed to play wherever they want once their 4 year degrees are complete. Don't want them to transfer? Well give them reasons to stay.

The top of the top talent never even gets close to needing a 5th year. They almost all turn pro early and screw the school out of their expected payoff for a senior season. As they have every right to do. They should also be able to go somewhere else after 4 years. They are kids that aren't paid for all of that work the schools make money on in exchange for that degree. Once earned they should be able to spend their 5th season (if they have one) and fucking way they please.
 

outofyourmind

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Honestly they should do away with the requirements that grad transfers can only happen if the school doesn't have their grad program. They did their 4 years and got their degree. Their eligibility to play is THEIR eligibility. Who cares if it amounts to free agency of sorts. Kids should be allowed to play wherever they want once their 4 year degrees are complete. Don't want them to transfer? Well give them reasons to stay.

The top of the top talent never even gets close to needing a 5th year. They almost all turn pro early and screw the school out of their expected payoff for a senior season. As they have every right to do. They should also be able to go somewhere else after 4 years. They are kids that aren't paid for all of that work the schools make money on in exchange for that degree. Once earned they should be able to spend their 5th season (if they have one) and fucking way they please.


What he said.
th
 

4down20

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Honestly they should do away with the requirements that grad transfers can only happen if the school doesn't have their grad program. They did their 4 years and got their degree. Their eligibility to play is THEIR eligibility. Who cares if it amounts to free agency of sorts. Kids should be allowed to play wherever they want once their 4 year degrees are complete. Don't want them to transfer? Well give them reasons to stay.

The top of the top talent never even gets close to needing a 5th year. They almost all turn pro early and screw the school out of their expected payoff for a senior season. As they have every right to do. They should also be able to go somewhere else after 4 years. They are kids that aren't paid for all of that work the schools make money on in exchange for that degree. Once earned they should be able to spend their 5th season (if they have one) and fucking way they please.

The idea that the kids have earned it and all that is total bullshit. They haven't earned shit, the schools pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per kid, gives them an education, a place to stay and everything else most of us could only dream of getting and they should have a say in if the player is going to a competitor.

Maybe it's because I joined the military at 18, but the way these kids are coddled and all this stuff about earning this and that just really annoys the piss outta me. Got it so damn good and on top of all that we are just picking out and handing out false entitlements.

Do it or don't do it really has nothing to do with what they are entitled to or have earned. I hate when people bring that up into the discussion. It's not a matter of earning or anything, it's a matter of the best way to deal with an ending relationship.
 

WizardHawk

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The idea that the kids have earned it and all that is total bullshit. They haven't earned shit, the schools pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per kid, gives them an education, a place to stay and everything else most of us could only dream of getting and they should have a say in if the player is going to a competitor.

Maybe it's because I joined the military at 18, but the way these kids are coddled and all this stuff about earning this and that just really annoys the piss outta me. Got it so damn good and on top of all that we are just picking out and handing out false entitlements.

Do it or don't do it really has nothing to do with what they are entitled to or have earned. I hate when people bring that up into the discussion. It's not a matter of earning or anything, it's a matter of the best way to deal with an ending relationship.
They made a contract. Play ball for your team for a 4 year education. If they fill that, have eligibility left, and want that last shot at more playing time or a change for any other reason I say let them. It's just my opinion. For many that last year is the last time they will ever touch a football, but it gives them at least a shot at being seen and getting at least an invite to indoor or CFL football.
 

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They made a contract. Play ball for your team for a 4 year education. If they fill that, have eligibility left, and want that last shot at more playing time or a change for any other reason I say let them. It's just my opinion. For many that last year is the last time they will ever touch a football, but it gives them at least a shot at being seen and getting at least an invite to indoor or CFL football.

Transferring is fine, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to play elsewhere. At best I think the schools should be able to have a few restrictions(aka upcoming opponents), but that's about it.

It's the telling me they've earned it is the part I have a problem with.
 

potzer25

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The idea that the kids have earned it and all that is total bullshit. They haven't earned shit, the schools pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per kid, gives them an education, a place to stay and everything else most of us could only dream of getting and they should have a say in if the player is going to a competitor.

Maybe it's because I joined the military at 18, but the way these kids are coddled and all this stuff about earning this and that just really annoys the piss outta me. Got it so damn good and on top of all that we are just picking out and handing out false entitlements.

Do it or don't do it really has nothing to do with what they are entitled to or have earned. I hate when people bring that up into the discussion. It's not a matter of earning or anything, it's a matter of the best way to deal with an ending relationship.

You're right. Schools are so altruistic spending all that money on the students and only asking them to play...what is it now, 15-16 games a year? Why do you think calling something you dislike an "entitlement" some how makes you right?
 

WizardHawk

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Transferring is fine, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to play elsewhere. At best I think the schools should be able to have a few restrictions(aka upcoming opponents), but that's about it.

It's the telling me they've earned it is the part I have a problem with.
I mean you can get hung up on the choice of words if you like and I get you don't agree.

You only get to a 5th year if you are red shirted (which is something the school requests you do and is on them) or if you are injured and get a medical year exemption. Either way once their degree is done I'm of the opinion they should be free to transfer to any institution without having to sit out a year. If conferences want to have things in place to prevent them just from other conference members so be it, but I think it's kind of dumb. However let them go anywhere without the requirement that everyone 'bends' anyway and let them take any kind of post grad anywhere. Most aren't in it for the education anyway and many have nearly useless degrees from their first 4 as it is. Quit pretending.
 

4down20

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You're right. Schools are so altruistic spending all that money on the students and only asking them to play...what is it now, 15-16 games a year? Why do you think calling something you dislike an "entitlement" some how makes you right?

If you are saying they earned it, then how are you not saying it's an entitlement?

Isn't that the definition of the word?
 

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I mean you can get hung up on the choice of words if you like and I get you don't agree.

You only get to a 5th year if you are red shirted (which is something the school requests you do and is on them) or if you are injured and get a medical year exemption. Either way once their degree is done I'm of the opinion they should be free to transfer to any institution without having to sit out a year. If conferences want to have things in place to prevent them just from other conference members so be it, but I think it's kind of dumb. However let them go anywhere without the requirement that everyone 'bends' anyway and let them take any kind of post grad anywhere. Most aren't in it for the education anyway and many have nearly useless degrees from their first 4 as it is. Quit pretending.

Many graduate in 3 years these days with the early enrolls, online classes and such, but that doesn't really matter to me because it's not a matter of earning it or not. There is and should be a way for the relationship to end that is beneficial to everyone.

If we want to go all out "for the kids", let's just take away scholarship limits completely. All that does is make it where more kids can't go to school for free, but it's restricted for competitive reasons.
 

7Samurai13

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If you are saying they earned it, then how are you not saying it's an entitlement?

Isn't that the definition of the word?
If you work hard and earn a $100,000 salary in your desired line of work, it doesn’t all of the sudden become an entitlement. Entitlement is actually the exact opposite of earning. Entitlement is getting something for just existing.
 

Tin Man

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Conference rules which empower student athletes who wish to transfer remove one of the arguments against the current scholarship model. Conferences are free to place restrictions on proactive contact by member schools without restricting student athletes actions. Refining the contact rules for schools could alleviate concerns about "poaching." The process should be simple and executable. Note: NCAA bureaucracy should not be an obstacle. They need to clean up their kitchen, too.

IMO

An undergraduate student athlete with remaining eligibility should be free to explore/investigate options at other schools within and without the conference of the school where s/he is enrolled. If they transfer, being restricted from participating in the next season's contests - "sitting out a year" - is fair.

A student who has completed their undergraduate degree requirements - a graduate - should be free to transfer. If they have remaining eligibility, they should be allowed to participate immediately.

For schools which come under sanctions that adversely impact student athlete participation in programs and post-season opportunities, both enrolled undergrad and grad student athletes should be allowed to transfer and participate immediately.
 

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If you work hard and earn a $100,000 salary in your desired line of work, it doesn’t all of the sudden become an entitlement. Entitlement is actually the exact opposite of earning. Entitlement is getting something for just existing.

If I work hard and make that money, I am entitled to it. It doesn't mean I'm entitled to more than $100,000 however. I'm entitled to what was agreed upon.
 

7Samurai13

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If I work hard and make that money, I am entitled to it. It doesn't mean I'm entitled to more than $100,000 however. I'm entitled to what was agreed upon.
You are entitled to that money because you EARNED it.
 

potzer25

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If you are saying they earned it, then how are you not saying it's an entitlement?

Isn't that the definition of the word?

Not really...
Definition of entitlement
1a : the state or condition of being entitled : right
b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

If you enter a contract, in this case it is "play football while getting an education" when that contract is complete, because the student played football while getting an education... being able to enter a different contract with a different school to "play football while getting an education" is not an entitlement.

If anything, you could make an argument that students could be held to a non-compete clause for 1 year after their initial contract with School A ends, preventing them from playing for School B until they sit out one year. Non-compete clauses are not enforceable in many states, though, so that would have to be considered.
 

WizardHawk

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Not really...


If you enter a contract, in this case it is "play football while getting an education" when that contract is complete, because the student played football while getting an education... being able to enter a different contract with a different school to "play football while getting an education" is not an entitlement.

If anything, you could make an argument that students could be held to a non-compete clause for 1 year after their initial contract with School A ends, preventing them from playing for School B until they sit out one year. Non-compete clauses are not enforceable in many states, though, so that would have to be considered.
Agree with the first part of that, however the rules that govern college athletics are not the same as work/labor contracts. See all of the results of attempts to sue over compensation for example. They could impose any restrictions they want as technically it is the schools that vote on the rules they themselves have to follow.

While they can make kids sit out, it's stupid to do so. I mean the argument for doing so, that teams like bama can easily poach your best 5th year kids seems entirely moot to me because if they were actually worthy of top 10 teams to poach they are almost surely off to the league already and making a paycheck.
 

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Not really...

Why didn't you put the definition that shows up on google in?

en·ti·tle·ment
inˈtīdlmənt,enˈtīdlmənt/
noun
noun: entitlement; plural noun: entitlements
the fact of having a right to something.

"full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
permission, dispensation, privilege
"their entitlement to benefits"
  • the amount to which a person has a right.
    "annual leave entitlement"
    synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
    permission, dispensation, privilege
    "their entitlement to benefits"
  • the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
    "no wonder your kids have a sense of entitlement"


Now, I look at this entire thread and I see the claim being made that they have earned the right to transfer without penalty because of the degree. I sucked at English, but it seems to me this is said to be an entitlement.

If you enter a contract, in this case it is "play football while getting an education" when that contract is complete, because the student played football while getting an education... being able to enter a different contract with a different school to "play football while getting an education" is not an entitlement.

If anything, you could make an argument that students could be held to a non-compete clause for 1 year after their initial contract with School A ends, preventing them from playing for School B until they sit out one year. Non-compete clauses are not enforceable in many states, though, so that would have to be considered.

However, the contract is not done because the kid got his education. That's like saying student loans are fulfilled because they graduate. Their end of the contract is their college career is in the hands of the university.
 

WizardHawk

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However, the contract is not done because the kid got his education. That's like saying student loans are fulfilled because they graduate. Their end of the contract is their college career is in the hands of the university.
No, they only agreed to taking a free ride scholarship for their degree. Once that degree is complete so is the original contract. Of course teams want more. They make millions and millions off the backs of the work of these kids. Most of us just don't feel that's right.
 

4down20

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No, they only agreed to taking a free ride scholarship for their degree. Once that degree is complete so is the original contract. Of course teams want more. They make millions and millions off the backs of the work of these kids. Most of us just don't feel that's right.

Hey if you want to change it, then go ahead(well they already did). I'm just saying they haven't earned it because they got the degree. That is backwards logic to me to say that because they got their reward, they should be able to do whatever they want. As if it somehow fulfills their end of things, when it's actually the school itself that is fulfilling it's end.

Also, I don't really buy that the players are getting a raw end of the stick. This is yet another discussion where the players are given way more credit than they deserve. Not to say they don't deserve any of it, or influence things - they do. Still the vast majority of the revenue and appeal to college football are the schools themselves.

If the players themselves were worth all these millions and millions that are being claimed in these types of discussions, then why do the leagues that pop up from time to time never stay and why don't these kids get paid then? If it was the players, and not the schools that were the appeal, this should be easy to do.

The truth is a few of the players could maybe play in the NFL. It's like 1% that even make it after 3 years minimum, it would be even less before then. There just isn't any market worth millions and millions of dollars for these players. The reality is, they are getting a pretty damn good deal.

Plus, all the money that is made by the schools is generally put into the program and/or pay for other sports. It's not a for profit sport. You may say well the coaches make millions, and that's only a testament to their positions and their worth. It's like your school paying for a lab or some other thing. An investment. Plus, even with all those millions spent on coaches, it's still less than what is spent on the players.

So I just do not buy into the idea that these kids are being taken advantage of in any way. It's a deal fans may take for granted, but the reality is it's helping 99% of them, and everyone for some reason pretends every player is the next Bo Jackson. As far as I can tell, they are damn lucky for the opportunities given to them, and it's something the majority of us will never get/got.
 

WizardHawk

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There's a difference between saying the schools make money off the kids and saying they are taken advantage of.

All of those words and yet the simple truth is millions and millions and millions of dollars come in to the schools for the performances these kids do on the field.

The college playoffs alone distribute half a billion dollars. And that's just for bowl season. That doesn't include TV rights, ticket sales, merch, etc for the regular season.

The kids don't get any of that. You don't need to look at failed leagues as some proof they aren't worth anything. :wtf: The money is already there and they don't get any of it. College football makes a fuckton of money. It's really not the kids fault that title IX and other stupidity squanders most of it to things not related to their work.

At the end of the day if the kids want to go somewhere else to find more playing time and have their last shot at glory before most go into something other than pro football, then by all means let them.
 
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