Seahawks make interesting move today

[NWPATSFAN]

I'm just talking about where the team is right now. I acknowledge the point about letting the OL sag from 2013, but it's now 2017 and nobody can make me a believer that they haven't put both $ and picks in it the last 2 seasons.

OK I agree it appears on the surface they are trying to become more balanced. They still have some work to do. But like I mentioned earlier if guys like Richardson pan out and Seattle decides to pay him the O will continue to get the left overs.

No one can argue the dominance of the Seattle D. But when you invest that much in the starters the O, ST and depth likely suffer. Minus the few rookies that offset that by being on a rookie contract.

 

[JMR]

OK I agree it appears on the surface they are trying to become more balanced. They still have some work to do. But like I mentioned earlier if guys like Richardson pan out and Seattle decides to pay him the O will continue to get the left overs.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Bennett and Avril are both nearing the end of their prime years, and there are quite a few players on this team right now who are either in the last year of their contract or came here on a 1 year deal. I think Richardson is more likely than not a 1 year rental, but if he signs for big $$ elsewhere in 2018 then there's probably a 3rd round comp coming back. And as we've seen in the trade that brought him here, teams usually can get creative to make cap space if they need to.

No one can argue the dominance of the Seattle D. But when you invest that much in the starters the O, ST and depth likely suffer. Minus the few rookies that offset that by being on a rookie contract.

It's a young OL right now. RBs and WRs are pretty young as well. It seems like they've done some work to address the depth in those positions. Overall I think this is the deepest team since 2013, without much question. I don't disagree that there are roster tradeoffs when you overpay in specific areas, but the OL is set up pretty good for a couple years if the players they drafted pan out.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

It will be interesting to see what happens. Bennett and Avril are both nearing the end of their prime years, and there are quite a few players on this team right now who are either in the last year of their contract or came here on a 1 year deal. I think Richardson is more likely than not a 1 year rental, but if he signs for big $$ elsewhere in 2018 then there's probably a 3rd round comp coming back. And as we've seen in the trade that brought him here, teams usually can get creative to make cap space if they need to.

It's a young OL right now. RBs and WRs are pretty young as well. It seems like they've done some work to address the depth in those positions. Overall I think this is the deepest team since 2013, without much question. I don't disagree that there are roster tradeoffs when you overpay in specific areas, but the OL is set up pretty good for a couple years if the players they drafted pan out.

As I mentioned the D is set up to be dominant. Not sure there is a lot of depth after the starters. That's subjective I know but I don't see any gains there from the SB loss.

I'm just not sold on the O. RW sure. Baldwin I still feel is the recipient of a lot of RW scrambles. Can't argue his numbers but I don't think of him as a top 15 WR. Fantasy players obviously disagree as I think he ranks about 9th?
Graham hasn't lived up to his potential. Maybe this is his year. I saw a poster mention he's become a better blocker. Not really.
The potential for that group of RBs could be dangerous. Nagging injuries, not the greatest OLine and IMHO no real threat a WR could limit their production.
The wild card is Wilson. His ability to scramble and find WRs or run is a huge +.
Not comparing the two but seeing NE trade Brisett upset me. Watching a QB with the ability to scramble is fun.

 

[JMR]

As I mentioned the D is set up to be dominant. Not sure there is a lot of depth after the starters. That's subjective I know but I don't see any gains there from the SB loss.

Hmmm....gotta strongly disagree there. I think the depth of the D showed up this pre-season when our 2nd and 3rd stringers generally had their way with their counterparts on the opposing teams. I will say the Marsh trade cut into the DL depth a bit, but that's assuming the player they kept instead of Marsh isn't as good. I think you could take this team's 2nd string DL (Clark, Reed, Naz Jones, Bass) and put it up against what a lot of other teams have starting and come out ok. I think Shead starting on the PUP hurts the secondary so we'll see how the youngsters work out, but this D is stacked again.

I'm just not sold on the O. RW sure. Baldwin I still feel is the recipient of a lot of RW scrambles. Can't argue his numbers but I don't think of him as a top 15 WR. Fantasy players obviously disagree as I think he ranks about 9th?
Graham hasn't lived up to his potential. Maybe this is his year. I saw a poster mention he's become a better blocker. Not really.
The potential for that group of RBs could be dangerous. Nagging injuries, not the greatest OLine and IMHO no real threat a WR could limit their production.
The wild card is Wilson. His ability to scramble and find WRs or run is a huge +.
Not comparing the two but seeing NE trade Brisett upset me. Watching a QB with the ability to scramble is fun.

I have few concerns about the offense right now. It boils down to O line improvement and RW's health. The weapons are there, in my opinion. Baldwin may not be top 15, not sure, but him plus Lockett and Graham is a good trio. Certainly good enough when you have a top 5 QB. Paul Richardson makes splash plays on the occasion he is healthy. Strong looking stable of RBs. They do need blocking, however, to make it work. I'm optimistic on the OL from what I've seen so far, but I fully understand that pretty much every non-Seattle fan won't be convinced at all until Halloween or later no matter what.

I know the Graham trade gets criticized a lot. He was the team's leading receiver in 2015 going into the game when he was injured for the year. He came back last season off that pretty bad injury and had nearly 1000 yards when the O was in a down year. This team just doesn't chuck it 40 times a game like the Saints, so the volume stats will probably never be there. Would like to see more focus on getting him the ball in the red zone.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Hmmm....gotta strongly disagree there. I think the depth of the D showed up this pre-season when our 2nd and 3rd stringers generally had their way with their counterparts on the opposing teams. I will say the Marsh trade cut into the DL depth a bit, but that's assuming the player they kept instead of Marsh isn't as good. I think you could take this team's 2nd string DL (Clark, Reed, Naz Jones, Bass) and put it up against what a lot of other teams have starting and come out ok. I think Shead starting on the PUP hurts the secondary so we'll see how the youngsters work out, but this D is stacked again.

I personally don't put a lot of stock in preseason. Loss of Marsh and Rubin should be a concern. They could likely start on a lot of teams. Regardless the Dline has depth. But as we move back the LBs and certainly the DBs are lacking. Clark is solid as a LB. Maybe the new kids surprise? I'd be worried with Lane as my starting CB. Coleman was garbage in NE. Maybe reuniting with Seattle he'll find his niche?

As for the O, I stated my piece? Part of Graham not producing is the lack of RZ touches/catches. In NO that was his domain.

 

[Anointed One]

I personally don't put a lot of stock in preseason. Loss of Marsh and Rubin should be a concern. They could likely start on a lot of teams. Regardless the Dline has depth. But as we move back the LBs and certainly the DBs are lacking. Clark is solid as a LB. Maybe the new kids surprise? I'd be worried with Lane as my starting CB. Coleman was garbage in NE. Maybe reuniting with Seattle he'll find his niche??

Honestly, it's hard to read this because you couldn't be further from the truth...

How is the loss of Marsh and Rubin a concern? We acquired one of the betters DT's in the game to replace Rubin's roster spot... We replaced him with a 4th year player who was DROTY in '13 as well as a pro bowler the following season... We replaced a journeyman player who will be on his 3rd team with a young, pro bowler... Why should we be concerned?

LB's are lacking? That's where we have a lot of depth on this team... That's a strength for us right now... It's one of the deepest group of LB's Carroll has arguably ever had... We have more speed and tackling ability at this position than we've ever had... And Clark doesn't play LB... He plays defensive end, which is the reason Marsh didn't see the field much...

And DB's aren't that big of a concern... Griffin, our rookie has looked very solid for us this preseason... He'll more than likely be our starter, not Lane... Lane will more than likely be depth and play nickel...

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Honestly, it's hard to read this because you couldn't be further from the truth...

How is the loss of Marsh and Rubin a concern? We acquired one of the betters DT's in the game to replace Rubin's roster spot... We replaced him with a 4th year player who was DROTY in '13 as well as a pro bowler the following season... We replaced a journeyman player who will be on his 3rd team with a young, pro bowler... Why should we be concerned?

LB's are lacking? That's where we have a lot of depth on this team... That's a strength for us right now... It's one of the deepest group of LB's Carroll has arguably ever had... We have more speed and tackling ability at this position than we've ever had... And Clark doesn't play LB... He plays defensive end, which is the reason Marsh didn't see the field much...

And DB's aren't that big of a concern... Griffin, our rookie has looked very solid for us this preseason... He'll more than likely be our starter, not Lane... Lane will more than likely be depth and play nickel...

I disagree here is their depth roster. Don't get so sensitive. Geesh.


My mistake on calling Marsh a LB.

Hey, you're more optomistic then I. I have no problem with that. I just don't see the depth the same way you do.

2017 Seattle Seahawks Depth Chart | Ourlads.com

 

[Uhsplit]

The line is only one piece of the equation. Yes Dolemite specifically mentioned the Oline. Maybe he was bothered by Seattle getting another DL while releasing guys like Rubin? I don't know nor do I care. What I took from him, as well as others have argued over the years is; Seattle routinely spends lots more on the D vs. The O. Beside Houston I'm not sure another NFL team does that. You appear to be cherry picking or compartmentalizing in order to validate your point. I'm looking at it from the whole.

The Seahawks have arguably been the most successful team in the NFC since Pete took over. As far as I'm concerned he can manipulate the program as he sees fit.

 

[Uhsplit]

OK I agree it appears on the surface they are trying to become more balanced. They still have some work to do. But like I mentioned earlier if guys like Richardson pan out and Seattle decides to pay him the O will continue to get the left overs.

No one can argue the dominance of the Seattle D. But when you invest that much in the starters the O, ST and depth likely suffer. Minus the few rookies that offset that by being on a rookie contract.

Unless a team was perfect, wouldn't they have work to do?

 

[JMR]

I personally don't put a lot of stock in preseason.

It was just a trend throughout the 4 games -- Seattle's backups stood out against their counterparts. Pre-season isn't the end all, of course, but it also isn't meaningless.

Loss of Marsh and Rubin should be a concern. They could likely start on a lot of teams.

Well, it would be a concern in isolation, but in comes Sheldon Richardson. His addition probably makes this the clear cut top front 7 in the league. If you could have Sheldon Richardson or Marsh & Rubin, it's really not much of a choice.

Regardless the Dline has depth. But as we move back the LBs and certainly the DBs are lacking. Clark is solid as a LB. Maybe the new kids surprise? I'd be worried with Lane as my starting CB. Coleman was garbage in NE. Maybe reuniting with Seattle he'll find his niche?

Someone already pointed out that Clark is a DE. Marsh saw some time as SAM last year but he was also best suited as a traditional DE in a 4-3. There are some new names at LB (Alexander is a ST stalwart from KC and Wilhoite a FA from SF) that I didn't get to see much in pre-season, but this D plays a lot of 4-2-5 sets so I'm not sure how imperative it is to have depth at the position. The least important position to this defense is SAM, which is one reason why they let Bruce Irvin go a year ago without much of a fight. Now, I'm *not* saying depth at LB is unimportant or meaningless -- just don't think it's critical for this defense. Last year our SAM guys contributed more on ST.

The DBs lacking? Well, you have some unproven guys there for sure after Lane, but I don't know if that equals lacking. Shaq Griffin has looked good to me and may be the starter. His inexperience will be a liability against the top few QBs in the league, but being surrounded by HOF type players will help cover that up against the majority of teams. Lane didn't have the best 2016, but he's not terrible. He was a very dependable nickel guy all the way up to the gruesome injury right after picking off Brady in SB49. He hasn't been quite as good since (better in 2015 than 2016), but again he's a known quantity here who has fit in and played well enough in the past. Shead coming back will be a plus. I don't expect much from Coleman. The rookie safeties had their moments in pre-season, but they'll probably be mainly ST guys this year. McDougald from the Bucs is a starter on most teams. Maybe this DB group isn't quite as good as what we had in 2013 with Maxwell and Browner, but it's plenty good enough when you consider what we have up front getting after the passer.

I fully expect this D to get back on top in points per game.

 

[rightstuff]

On Draft Pics since 2010, Besides Earl (1), they have hit quite well on 4 other players that are Currently earning salaries beyond their projections. KJ (4) Cam (5) Sherm (5) and Wagner (2).

My point is: If they don't hit with those 4, then the Def Side probably wouldn't dominate the Salary.


Also, hitting on RW and Baldwin at low salaries kept Offensive Salary down for 4 years.
Now RW and Baldwin are being paid, whereas Tate and O'Kung were let go.


It don't think they went into this in 2010, and said "Let's spend way more on Defense"
More Defensive Players Performed, and underachievers that demanded high salaries ( Carpenter and Sweezy ) were let go.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

It was just a trend throughout the 4 games -- Seattle's backups stood out against their counterparts. Pre-season isn't the end all, of course, but it also isn't meaningless.



Well, it would be a concern in isolation, but in comes Sheldon Richardson. His addition probably makes this the clear cut top front 7 in the league. If you could have Sheldon Richardson or Marsh & Rubin, it's really not much of a choice.


Someone already pointed out that Clark is a DE. Marsh saw some time as SAM last year but he was also best suited as a traditional DE in a 4-3. There are some new names at LB (Alexander is a ST stalwart from KC and Wilhoite a FA from SF) that I didn't get to see much in pre-season, but this D plays a lot of 4-2-5 sets so I'm not sure how imperative it is to have depth at the position. The least important position to this defense is SAM, which is one reason why they let Bruce Irvin go a year ago without much of a fight. Now, I'm *not* saying depth at LB is unimportant or meaningless -- just don't think it's critical for this defense. Last year our SAM guys contributed more on ST.

The DBs lacking? Well, you have some unproven guys there for sure after Lane, but I don't know if that equals lacking. Shaq Griffin has looked good to me and may be the starter. His inexperience will be a liability against the top few QBs in the league, but being surrounded by HOF type players will help cover that up against the majority of teams. Lane didn't have the best 2016, but he's not terrible. He was a very dependable nickel guy all the way up to the gruesome injury right after picking off Brady in SB49. He hasn't been quite as good since (better in 2015 than 2016), but again he's a known quantity here who has fit in and played well enough in the past. Shead coming back will be a plus. I don't expect much from Coleman. The rookie safeties had their moments in pre-season, but they'll probably be mainly ST guys this year. McDougald from the Bucs is a starter on most teams. Maybe this DB group isn't quite as good as what we had in 2013 with Maxwell and Browner, but it's plenty good enough when you consider what we have up front getting after the passer.

I fully expect this D to get back on top in points per game.

Not disputing this will be a D to be reckoned with. Again after the starters up front not much depth. 2 for 1 gaining a much better player in Richardson but losing a quality depth player you pick Marsh or Rubin.
You sort of agree after KJ and Wags nothing you can be 100% excited about.
DBs are weaker than 2012/13. They LOB are losing a step. Sherm gets beat more and more each year. Yes some has to do with injuries to him and the Safties, some has to do with being asked to not just play one side of the field, some has to do with age.
An awesome starting 11. I'm jealous. After that I'm not worried in the least.

I was listening to Softy on the way home. He has the same feeling as me with regard to the O. Basically aside from RW, JG and DB there is no one you can feel real good about right now.

 

[Anointed One]

Not disputing this will be a D to be reckoned with. Again after the starters up front not much depth. 2 for 1 gaining a much better player in Richardson but losing a quality depth player you pick Marsh or Rubin.
You sort of agree after KJ and Wags nothing you can be 100% excited about.
DBs are weaker than 2012/13. They LOB are losing a step. Sherm gets beat more and more each year. Yes some has to do with injuries to him and the Safties, some has to do with being asked to not just play one side of the field, some has to do with age.
An awesome starting 11. I'm jealous. After that I'm not worried in the least..

You should probably do your research before posting these kind of comments... After wags and KJ there is a lot to be excited about? LMAO...

 

[NWPATSFAN]

You should probably do your research before posting these kind of comments... After wags and KJ there is a lot to be excited about? LMAO...

Who? Stricktly talking LBs now? Smith, Wilhoite, McDonald? Which one excites you? Which one do you feel jumps right in if KJ or Wags goes down? Sorry I don't see it. I don't feel comfortable. KJ and Wags are two of my favorite LBs in the league.

 

[Screamin12th]

You should probably do your research before posting these kind of comments... After wags and KJ there is a lot to be excited about? LMAO...

Well i think he is saying after those two there is a lot of unknown here. I can agree with that. It will be Interesting watching how it turns out. Some of these guys ( Gavin stood out ) flashed some skill but will they fill the void of talent vacated by Marsh and Rubin? I don't think so. Sheldon is a sure fire better player than Rubin but to many unknowns with the guys that will play where/when Marsh played. I say Push right now just because Sheldon is a big improvement over Rubin or he should be on paper. Can't count those eggs yet.

I am worried about the WR depth with Lockett coming off a bad injury and Richardson can he stay Healthy a full season? No clue what, if anything, we get from Darboh.

 

[Podunkparte]

How many teams in the league have backups that you "get excited about?" You don't use backup linebackers to decide whether or not a team will be good/bad, contender/pretender, etc.

 

[MrS]

rubin was garbage, big time. marsh was kind of meh but flashed something occasionally. david bass looks to be a solid improvement over marsh, and richardson is a major improvement over rubin.

 

[JMR]

Again after the starters up front not much depth.

I guess we'll see. I will say that's not an opinion that seems to be shared by pretty much anyone I've heard talk about the amount of talent on this year's roster. I don't care about final scores in pre-season, but how players look does carry at least some weight. David Bass, Marcus Smith, Terence Garvin, and Naz Jones all looked good. But if your answer to that is that it was just pre-season, then I guess my question would be then what exactly are you basing your opinion on?

2 for 1 gaining a much better player in Richardson but losing a quality depth player you pick Marsh or Rubin.

When you have a chance to have 1 super star type player or 2 mediocre ones, it's just really not a choice. Marsh and Rubin were role players. I liked both, but the bottom line is they are not all that difficult to replace. The DL improved for these moves.

You sort of agree after KJ and Wags nothing you can be 100% excited about.
DBs are weaker than 2012/13. They LOB are losing a step. Sherm gets beat more and more each year. Yes some has to do with injuries to him and the Safties, some has to do with being asked to not just play one side of the field, some has to do with age.
An awesome starting 11. I'm jealous. After that I'm not worried in the least.

Is there a team out there that makes you the least bit worried when you ignore all the starters and just look at the backups? It sorta seems like we are looking at this amazing Ferrari and getting a bit too distracted by a small chip in the windshield.

I was listening to Softy on the way home. He has the same feeling as me with regard to the O. Basically aside from RW, JG and DB there is no one you can feel real good about right now.

Well then I guess it's a good thing we have RW, JG an DB then. Just imagine the Packers without Rodgers, Nelson, and Adams. NE w/o Brady, Gronk, and Cooks. Just an odd way to look at it to me.

 

[chf]

When did Rubin go from new contract guy to 'garbage?' People sure seem to put a LOT of stock into PFF. Are they the be all and end all now?

Rubin wasn't asked to 'DO' a lot in our D scheme, just eat space and blockers. He was the Red Bryant guy. No rushing the passer, just be stout v the run.

Did he do that less effectively last season? Maybe. I sure didn't notice him getting pancaked too often out there.

 

[FirebreathingMonkey]

Seahawks Insider: Last-minute addition of Sheldon Richardson a month-long plan

After month-long search, Seahawks settle on Sheldon Richardson