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Riddick Video is the best

ehb5

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Of course it is, you already agreed to pay the man $24M, so why shouldnt things start there and move forward. The Carr contract has already set a new floor for starting QBs with experience. $25M a year. Do you think Stafford is going to settle for a $22M a year average deal??

Hell if we let Kirk walk, and some how we are talking to Grap or McCarron.... BOTH their agents are going to shoot for $20M a year with the first three years fully guaranteed.

See thats the thing, people learn from others mistakes. So no one is going to take an Oswieler type deal where the team can bail after a year if they arent happy. So those guys are either gongi to get one year prove it deals (in the 20-22M range) or long term deals in the $19-21M a year with the first three locked in type of deals.

At the end of the day, unless we draft a QB, the position next year is going to cost us between $19-34M..

$19 if its Grap, McCarron or some other unknown who shakes loose. $28-34 if we tag or sign Kirk long term.

The only way we get under that $19M number at this point is to draft a QB or roll with Colt McCoy.

Osweiler still has a fair amount of money owed
 

ehb5

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you are lost dude. If you want to side with the player and believe his statements fine. I believe an experienced FO guy and day over an active player.

Ok but theres plenty of experienced people who dont agree with what youre saying....
 

Sharkinva

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Osweiler still has a fair amount of money owed


Actually once he gets his $16M for this year, nothing else is guaranteed. The Texans gave him a deal where they could be done with him after two years and his actual cap cost would be $18.5M per year. The fact that the Browns basically bought a 2nd round pick for $16M means the Texans actual cost on him was $10.5M per season for last year and this year as they had to eat the remainder of his #12M signing bonus,
 

ehb5

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Actually once he gets his $16M for this year, nothing else is guaranteed. The Texans gave him a deal where they could be done with him after two years and his actual cap cost would be $18.5M per year. The fact that the Browns basically bought a 2nd round pick for $16M means the Texans actual cost on him was $10.5M per season for last year and this year as they had to eat the remainder of his #12M signing bonus,

Well 10.5M per year plus that 2nd round pick. Pretty damn awful lol.

But true that its not some half decade long commitment.
 

Sharkinva

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Well 10.5M per year plus that 2nd round pick. Pretty damn awful lol.

But true that its not some half decade long commitment.


They gave up a 2nd to save roughly $16M in cap space.. fair dinkum as far as Im concerned, especially when you consider we ate $10.5M for a guy who at the time we werent even dressing for 15 out of 16 games.
 

ehb5

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They gave up a 2nd to save roughly $16M in cap space.. fair dinkum as far as Im concerned, especially when you consider we ate $10.5M for a guy who at the time we werent even dressing for 15 out of 16 games.

Right...because the contract was so damn bad...

Bad contracts are a pain in the ass. They literally flushed a 2nd rounder down the drain because of it.

Who did we eat 10.5M for and when? (not that it really matters - 1 bad decision by us doesnt make HOU's Osweiler contract any less horrid).
 

gkekoa

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It's clear that you do make assumptions by essentially stating that there is no point in life that a man can stand up and be just that. While I am 180 degrees from that belief, I'll respect your right to assert that even millionaires should cower in a face to face negotiation, especially publicly, where he has all of the leverage AND total public opinion on his side. :pound:(sorry responsive slip)

I didn't say there is no point in life where a man can stand up. I am saying it is a personal choice.

Going out and doing your job while under contract, not being a distraction, is being a man. Sorry dude. You have the wrong idea of manhood.
 

skinsdad62

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Ive gotta be missing something here... if you think Kirk doesnt wanna be here that means you hate Kirk?...huh?
no , it doesnt , but what indicates the hate in some cases , is the jump right to the negative in every aspect of this .

if KC doesnt wanna be here then it stems from the Allen statement in my opinion . he has agreed to 2 deals in the past for a lot less now and they were killed by allen .

so his wanting to be here up until that point was good , now not so much
 

Sharkinva

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Right...because the contract was so damn bad...

Bad contracts are a pain in the ass. They literally flushed a 2nd rounder down the drain because of it.

Who did we eat 10.5M for and when? (not that it really matters - 1 bad decision by us doesnt make HOU's Osweiler contract any less horrid).


Well that would be bob, and my bad it only turned out to be $7.5M we ate for a guy who didnt take a snap. We got a $3M cap discount because he did not play a snap in 2015.

But I agree with you the Texans made a huge mistake in paying Oswieler. A QB with little real game experience, going into a new system. Kinda why i think Grap or McCarron would be a bad idea.

And to add insult to injury, not only did it cost them a 2nd rounder to get out of that deal, but it also cost them a 2017 and 2018 first rounder to trade up for Watson.
 

ehb5

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Well that would be bob, and my bad it only turned out to be $7.5M we ate for a guy who didnt take a snap. We got a $3M cap discount because he did not play a snap in 2015.

But I agree with you the Texans made a huge mistake in paying Oswieler. A QB with little real game experience, going into a new system. Kinda why i think Grap or McCarron would be a bad idea.

And to add insult to injury, not only did it cost them a 2nd rounder to get out of that deal, but it also cost them a 2017 and 2018 first rounder to trade up for Watson.

Sure but for one his contract wasnt really up to us. It was pretty much set years ago when he was drafted. The problem was drafting the dude in the first place.

And I agree with you. Im lukewarm on Grap but I dont see any reason to think McCarron will be anything more than a career backup. And neither of them is worth 20M a year.

What I dont get about either of them is that at BEST they have the same odds to hit as a draft pick but they come out the gate costing you like 5 times more per year. How is that a smart decision?
 

ehb5

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no , it doesnt , but what indicates the hate in some cases , is the jump right to the negative in every aspect of this .

if KC doesnt wanna be here then it stems from the Allen statement in my opinion . he has agreed to 2 deals in the past for a lot less now and they were killed by allen .

so his wanting to be here up until that point was good , now not so much

Sure I dont really disagree with you on anything there I just thought SoCals comment was a hop skip and a jump to conclusions based on what was actually stated by anyone in the thread (and specifically the post quoted by socal)
 

ehb5

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[


that is now a former player, former GM, and personnel man who think there should of been a counter.

I mean I dont have a problem with you thinking there shouldve been a counter but you havent proven anything
 

Sharkinva

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Sure but for one his contract wasnt really up to us. It was pretty much set years ago when he was drafted. The problem was drafting the dude in the first place.

And I agree with you. Im lukewarm on Grap but I dont see any reason to think McCarron will be anything more than a career backup. And neither of them is worth 20M a year.

What I dont get about either of them is that at BEST they have the same odds to hit as a draft pick but they come out the gate costing you like 5 times more per year. How is that a smart decision?


The mistake was holding onto BOB and wasting a roster spot once Kirk was made the starter. My personal opinion was that we should have dealt him for what ever we could get, or simply cut him.

As for Grap, McCarron or a rookie.... Either veteran backup is going to get $18-21M.. because thats where the QB market is right now.

As for a rookie, I see us being in a position much like the Texans. Having to trade up to get the guy we want. See I dont think its a matter of if we will have to trade up, but a matter of how much is it going to cost us. And the only way we end up not trying to trade up is if the team totally fails this season.
 

ehb5

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The mistake was holding onto BOB and wasting a roster spot once Kirk was made the starter. My personal opinion was that we should have dealt him for what ever we could get, or simply cut him.

As for Grap, McCarron or a rookie.... Either veteran backup is going to get $18-21M.. because thats where the QB market is right now.

As for a rookie, I see us being in a position much like the Texans. Having to trade up to get the guy we want. See I dont think its a matter of if we will have to trade up, but a matter of how much is it going to cost us. And the only way we end up not trying to trade up is if the team totally fails this season.

Yea thats fair. No point in hanging on that last year.

Thats where QB market is right now and its dumb as all hell.

And thats certainly possible. A few recent examples of guys going mid-late first or early second though. But even if we just sat tight and took somebody in the 2nd I think thats a waaaaaay better course of action than paying either of those 2 guys.
 

Sharkinva

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Yea thats fair. No point in hanging on that last year.

Thats where QB market is right now and its dumb as all hell.

And thats certainly possible. A few recent examples of guys going mid-late first or early second though. But even if we just sat tight and took somebody in the 2nd I think thats a waaaaaay better course of action than paying either of those 2 guys.


And if we could totally discount the Dan factor, sitting tight and taking who falls to us would sound logical. But Im thinking if we are moving on from Kirk, Dan and Bruce are going to want some one to get the fans excited. This is also why I dont think they will go after Grap or McCarron.
 

ehb5

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its the front offices fault from the beginning . they had a deal in place for 12 (now) going into 2015 but it was killed by allen . the had one for 19 mil going into 2016 but it was killed by allen . he could have been had for 1/2 of what we are paying him today but chose not to . sorry but the FO made the choice and they should be held accountable for their choice .

then they trot out this BS lowball 1 yr extension for the trans tag next year and think he would sign the hot garbage

and people who cant read a damn contract want to say " well its both parties fault " when the guy agreed to sign twice at much lower prices and the FO balked

sorry i am not buying and the FO will get every ounce of my textual disgust

To be fair paying him 12 going into 2015 wouldve made no sense and the 19 was somewhat justifiable.

Hindsight is 20/20.
 
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