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Reason for Seahawks fall from grace

flyerhawk

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OK. It's time to pump the brakes here.

The Seahawks this year have lost, for the season

Their starting LT
Their top CB
One of their top pass rushers
One of the top strong safeties in football
Their starting RB

For the game on Sunday, they also lost KJ Wright and had a severely hobbled Bobby Wagner.

When you lose 60% of your starting players on defense, your defense is going to struggle. I don't care what team you are talking about.

Futhermore calling Germain Ifedi a bust is freaking ludicrous. It's his 2nd season.

It would be great if we were able to draft a pro bowler in the 3rd round every year but it doesn't work that.

The Seahawks are coming to the end of their cycle with this defense and need to adjust to a new life without them. But to argue that because the Seahawks don't have a bunch of pro bowlers sitting on the bench waiting for the starter to go down is absurd.
 

seattlefan75

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We've won double digit games for the past 5 years and may do that again despite having our entire defense get injured. What exactly do you expect?

Everyones expectations before the season started was to be a top 3 seed and with a roster that has a loaded salary cap and 11 pro bowlers I feel that expectations are suppose to be high. I cannot believe the Dallas Cowboys who went 6 games without Zeke and share a division with the Eagles are more likely to go to the playoffs than the seahawks. I dont want to hear about injuries if those picks would have panned out we wouldnt be sitting here trading away our 2nd and 3rd round picks for veteran players and washed up running backs to fill the void.

This will probably be the first year in the russell wilson era (the best statistical year he has ever had) where the hawks will not make the playoffs.
 

flyerhawk

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Everyones expectations before the season started was to be a top 3 seed and with a roster that has a loaded salary cap and 11 pro bowlers I feel that expectations are suppose to be high. I cannot believe the Dallas Cowboys who went 6 games without Zeke and share a division with the Eagles are more likely to go to the playoffs than the seahawks. I dont want to hear about injuries if those picks would have panned out we wouldnt be sitting here trading away our 2nd and 3rd round picks for veteran players and washed up running backs to fill the void.

This will probably be the first year in the russell wilson era (the best statistical year he has ever had) where the hawks will not make the playoffs.

Most likely we are not going to make the playoffs. So I guess it is time to blame everyone and fire them.
 

MrS

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It's not that they didn't do what was needed, they just whiffed on the players they drafted... They've drafted 11 OL since 2013... Since '14, they drafted 6 OL in the first 4 rounds so it's not like they didn't try to fill a need... Letting Okung go was probably another mistake Schneider had made during that time...

Drafting is a problem and so is coaching. We have invested in the offense, you are right, and it hasnt worked. The coaches failed to build an O, its time to get someone with ambition and a real O mind that can build this team into an offensive power.

Im not saying fore carroll, but at the least the O coaching staff needa to be completely turned over.
 

boogiewithstu2007

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I kinda felt that Tate wanted to leave and take more money elsewhere it wasnt like we didnt give him any offers he turned down what we offered him and he took the bigger contract in Detroit if I remember right. but yeah if we parted ways with Harvin we could have offered more to him and he probably would have stayed. I liked him I think he was the only seahawk to leave the team and have a huge impact

Yeah man, Tate is tough, he's a workhorse kinda guy you want ... I mean Percy was fun to watch, definite speedster, but the guy even in our Super-Bowl winning season NEVER played.. He was hurt every dam game but the Super-Bowl... lol Tate was always dependable, I would a seriously kept Tate...
 

HaroldSeattle

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Draft is one major reason for the current struggles of the Hawks. Injuries are hurting the team more because the depth isn't strong due to not great drafting and whiffing the past couple of years in the draft is starting to catch up with them.


Yes the drafting became harder once your picking at the bottom of every round rather then the beginning of every round. No mystery about that, part of the NFL desire for parity.

Trades are another part that's hurt them

Trades are gambles some work ( like the trade for Lynch) and some are busts ( like Harvin ) and some are meh ( like Graham)

The offensive line has been a travesty and for a team that wants to run the ball, control the clock, and play good defense I've never understood why in the world you would neglect the offensive line
Won't say they have neglected the OL. They have used a couple of first round picks on OL and have drafted multiple OL and now they have traded for one and they signed FA OL. Just hasn't worked out thus far. Lots of teams have problems with their OL, in fact I'd say the vast majority of teams. Building a solid OL has been a fail for the front office, however the front office has done pretty well finding a franchise QB, building a solid D, found a great RB in Lynch, think they'll figure out a way to final have a good OL.

And finally, the Hawks have been building the team too much around defense when if you have a franchise QB you build it more around offense especially when the strength of the coaching staff is on the defensive side. If you look at the Pats and Steelers they started off as strong defensive teams with Brady and Ben in game manager roles and now they are feared far more for the offenses than defenses.

Now this part puzzles. You talk about how the Pats and Steelers started out with strong Ds, then eventually built around the QB. This may be what happens with the Seahawks IDK. I hope you weren't suggesting that the Seahawks shouldn't have resigned Thomas, Chancellor and Sherman to a second contract, because that would be crazy talk.

At the end of the day it's about a cycle. You start from scratch, then with some luck and hard work you build a strong team. Once that happens it becomes about holding on to your studs best you can and see how far you can go. Eventually you got to start over and repeat the process.
 

seattlefan75

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Most likely we are not going to make the playoffs. So I guess it is time to blame everyone and fire them.

What I am saying at this rate this team will be done a lot sooner than expected if we dont figure something out with the draft. Im not saying we need to draft all pros every draft but these players need to be capable of playing their position. All our picks are either not playing in the NFL or on other teams as backups
 

seattlefan75

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Yes the drafting became harder once your picking at the bottom of every round rather then the beginning of every round. No mystery about that, part of the NFL desire for parity.

This is absolutely no excuse come on man the seahawks have just one guy that was drafted on the team that was selected in the high first round.
 

seattlefan75

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Missing the playoffs will be good for the seahawks the Steelers have gone through a couple of 8-8 seasons before they were brought back to grace even though their star players were drafted in the 2nd and 6th round
 

HaroldSeattle

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This is absolutely no excuse come on man the seahawks have just one guy that was drafted on the team that was selected in the high first round.

Will agree the latest drafts have not been good. I don't think it's because they are clueless or lazy. Think that drafting is some what of a crap shoot no matter how much work you put into it. Now I'm hoping they hit big next draft.
As for your remark about just one guy was a high first, it's not just about drafting high in the first round, it's every round. Lets face it always a advantage to be able to draft early then late in a round and there are 7 rounds. It does make a difference.
Besides it not realistic to expect any front office to kill in the draft year after year. Even the best will have their slumps.
 

MrS

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Won't say they have neglected the OL. They have used a couple of first round picks on OL and have drafted multiple OL and now they have traded for one and they signed FA OL. Just hasn't worked out thus far. Lots of teams have problems with their OL, in fact I'd say the vast majority of teams. Building a solid OL has been a fail for the front office, however the front office has done pretty well finding a franchise QB, building a solid D, found a great RB in Lynch, think they'll figure out a way to final have a good OL.

i dont see any reason to be optimistic about the OL, it has gotten worse year over year and even with a few good players its absolute garbage.

its time for coaching changes, period. or we continue with an offense that doesnt show up for half the game just about EVERY game.
 

Anointed One

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What I am saying at this rate this team will be done a lot sooner than expected if we dont figure something out with the draft. Im not saying we need to draft all pros every draft but these players need to be capable of playing their position. All our picks are either not playing in the NFL or on other teams as backups

We have some depth from the draft on defense that will end up starting someday... They just haven’t seen much PT due to us already having starters at these position… A few examples… We still have a very good prospect at Safety that we drafted last year in D. Hill... He'll eventually be Kams replacement or a solid backup for McDougald... McDowell will be a strong player up front (if he gets his head on straight)... Nazir Jones looks promising along with Shaq Griffin... Reed is only in his 2nd year and he looks like a keeper... Frank Clark looks like a stud... So we're not looking bad in terms of players to replace some of our starters…
 

flyerhawk

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What I am saying at this rate this team will be done a lot sooner than expected if we dont figure something out with the draft. Im not saying we need to draft all pros every draft but these players need to be capable of playing their position. All our picks are either not playing in the NFL or on other teams as backups

The Seahawks were considered one of the most talented teams for the last 5 years. Now that the first cycle of players are fading away, you want to blast the drafting?

The Seahawks have significantly failed when it comes to bringing in OL talent, although Brown has been good so far. Our OL draft has simply failed to find the right players.

BTW, here are the Patriots drafts over the same period..

2017 1 3 19 83 Derek Rivers DE Youngstown State
2 3 21 85 Antonio Garcia T Troy
3 4 25 131 Deatrich Wise DE Arkansas
4 6 28 211 Conor McDermott T UCLA
2016 1 2 29 60 Cyrus Jones DB Alabama
2 3 15 78 Joe Thuney G North Carolina State
3 3 29 91 Jacoby Brissett QB North Carolina State
4 3 34 96 Vincent Valentine DT Nebraska
5 4 14 112 Malcolm Mitchell WR Georgia
6 6 33 208 Kamu Grugier-Hill LB Eastern Illinois
7 6 39 214 Elandon Roberts LB Houston
8 6 46 221 Ted Karras G Illinois
9 7 4 225 Devin Lucien WR Arizona State
2015 1 1 32 32 Malcom Brown DT Texas
2 2 32 64 Jordan Richards DB Stanford
3 3 33 97 Geneo Grissom DE Oklahoma
4 4 2 101 Trey Flowers DE Arkansas
5 4 12 111 Tre' Jackson G Florida State
6 4 32 131 Shaquille Mason C Georgia Tech
7 5 30 166 Joe Cardona C Navy
8 6 2 178 Matthew Wells LB Mississippi State
9 6 26 202 A.J. Derby TE Arkansas
10 7 30 247 Darryl Roberts DB Marshall
11 7 36 253 Xzavier Dickson LB Alabama
2014 1 1 29 29 Dominique Easley DT Florida
2 2 30 62 Jimmy Garoppolo QB Eastern Illinois
3 4 5 105 Bryan Stork C Florida State
4 4 30 130 James White RB Wisconsin
5 4 40 140 Cameron Fleming T Stanford
6 6 3 179 Jon Halapio G Florida
7 6 22 198 Zach Moore DE Concordia (MN)
8 6 30 206 Jemea Thomas DB Georgia Tech
9 7 29 244 Jeremy Gallon WR Michigan
2013 1 2 20 52 Jamie Collins LB Southern Mississippi
2 2 27 59 Aaron Dobson WR Marshall
3 3 21 83 Logan Ryan DB Rutgers
4 3 29 91 Duron Harmon DB Rutgers
5 4 5 102 Josh Boyce WR Texas Christian
6 7 20 226 Michael Buchanan DE Illinois
7 7 29 235 Steve Beauharnais LB Rutgers

Who are all the amazing players that they drafted? Logan Ryan? James White?

If you come away from a draft with one bonafide starter as a rookie, you are doing pretty well. This is especially true of teams with a lot of talent like the Seahawks.

Jarren Reeds, Naz Jones, Frank Clark, Shaq Griffin. These are all legitimate players that were starters or rotational starters.

I know a lot of fans are going to want to blow it all up but that doesn't make any sense.
 

flyerhawk

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i dont see any reason to be optimistic about the OL, it has gotten worse year over year and even with a few good players its absolute garbage.

its time for coaching changes, period. or we continue with an offense that doesnt show up for half the game just about EVERY game.

If you think this line is worse than last year's then we are watching a different a game.
 

seattlefan75

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The Seahawks were considered one of the most talented teams for the last 5 years. Now that the first cycle of players are fading away, you want to blast the drafting?

The Seahawks have significantly failed when it comes to bringing in OL talent, although Brown has been good so far. Our OL draft has simply failed to find the right players.

BTW, here are the Patriots drafts over the same period..

2017 1 3 19 83 Derek Rivers DE Youngstown State
2 3 21 85 Antonio Garcia T Troy
3 4 25 131 Deatrich Wise DE Arkansas
4 6 28 211 Conor McDermott T UCLA
2016 1 2 29 60 Cyrus Jones DB Alabama
2 3 15 78 Joe Thuney G North Carolina State
3 3 29 91 Jacoby Brissett QB North Carolina State
4 3 34 96 Vincent Valentine DT Nebraska
5 4 14 112 Malcolm Mitchell WR Georgia
6 6 33 208 Kamu Grugier-Hill LB Eastern Illinois
7 6 39 214 Elandon Roberts LB Houston
8 6 46 221 Ted Karras G Illinois
9 7 4 225 Devin Lucien WR Arizona State
2015 1 1 32 32 Malcom Brown DT Texas
2 2 32 64 Jordan Richards DB Stanford
3 3 33 97 Geneo Grissom DE Oklahoma
4 4 2 101 Trey Flowers DE Arkansas
5 4 12 111 Tre' Jackson G Florida State
6 4 32 131 Shaquille Mason C Georgia Tech
7 5 30 166 Joe Cardona C Navy
8 6 2 178 Matthew Wells LB Mississippi State
9 6 26 202 A.J. Derby TE Arkansas
10 7 30 247 Darryl Roberts DB Marshall
11 7 36 253 Xzavier Dickson LB Alabama
2014 1 1 29 29 Dominique Easley DT Florida
2 2 30 62 Jimmy Garoppolo QB Eastern Illinois
3 4 5 105 Bryan Stork C Florida State
4 4 30 130 James White RB Wisconsin
5 4 40 140 Cameron Fleming T Stanford
6 6 3 179 Jon Halapio G Florida
7 6 22 198 Zach Moore DE Concordia (MN)
8 6 30 206 Jemea Thomas DB Georgia Tech
9 7 29 244 Jeremy Gallon WR Michigan
2013 1 2 20 52 Jamie Collins LB Southern Mississippi
2 2 27 59 Aaron Dobson WR Marshall
3 3 21 83 Logan Ryan DB Rutgers
4 3 29 91 Duron Harmon DB Rutgers
5 4 5 102 Josh Boyce WR Texas Christian
6 7 20 226 Michael Buchanan DE Illinois
7 7 29 235 Steve Beauharnais LB Rutgers

Who are all the amazing players that they drafted? Logan Ryan? James White?

If you come away from a draft with one bonafide starter as a rookie, you are doing pretty well. This is especially true of teams with a lot of talent like the Seahawks.

Jarren Reeds, Naz Jones, Frank Clark, Shaq Griffin. These are all legitimate players that were starters or rotational starters.

I know a lot of fans are going to want to blow it all up but that doesn't make any sense.

All those players listed you really believe this is less than what the hawks have done? Jamie Collins is a pro bowl LB. Jimmy G was traded for a high 2nd round pick and has been winning with the 49ers those offensive lineman listed are way better than the busts offensive lineman we drafted. you say that the jury is still out on ifedi? the man LEADS THE LEAGUE in penalties for offensive lineman he as 15 flags in 14 games totaling 115 yards. Im not saying that those guys listed are all pro but there are way more solid players there than what we have
 

flyerhawk

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All those players listed you really believe this is less than what the hawks have done? Jamie Collins is a pro bowl LB. Jimmy G was traded for a high 2nd round pick and has been winning with the 49ers those offensive lineman listed are way better than the busts offensive lineman we drafted. you say that the jury is still out on ifedi? the man LEADS THE LEAGUE in penalties for offensive lineman he as 15 flags in 14 games totaling 115 yards. Im not saying that those guys listed are all pro but there are way more solid players there than what we have

So we should just cut Ifedi and be done with him since he is obviously a bust?
 

HaroldSeattle

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All those players listed you really believe this is less than what the hawks have done? Jamie Collins is a pro bowl LB. Jimmy G was traded for a high 2nd round pick and has been winning with the 49ers those offensive lineman listed are way better than the busts offensive lineman we drafted. you say that the jury is still out on ifedi? the man LEADS THE LEAGUE in penalties for offensive lineman he as 15 flags in 14 games totaling 115 yards. Im not saying that those guys listed are all pro but there are way more solid players there than what we have

Seahawks have had some bad breaks with players. Rawls looked great right up until he got injured, then never the same. Prosise looked electric the first year, but can’t say healthy. Richardson was injured his first couple of season, starting to look at least decent now.
Mostly it’s the OL that they can’t seem to hit on.
 
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Screamin12th

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If you think this line is worse than last year's then we are watching a different a game.

Until Brown joined the team i would say yes this line was worse. We now have Brown, Joeckel, Britt, Pocic and ( -.- ) Ifedi. Do you remember what the oline was going to be and was for half the season? puke. Ifedi needs to go back to Guard he is not suited to play tackle in the NFL. Get Pocic out there at RT and let him use his quickness and put the help over there. He is manhandled easily by power guys and you face more power guys INSIDE than you do outside.
 

flyerhawk

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Until Brown joined the team i would say yes this line was worse. We now have Brown, Joeckel, Britt, Pocic and ( -.- ) Ifedi. Do you remember what the oline was going to be and was for half the season? puke. Ifedi needs to go back to Guard he is not suited to play tackle in the NFL. Get Pocic out there at RT and let him use his quickness and put the help over there. He is manhandled easily by power guys and you face more power guys INSIDE than you do outside.

Well you lose your starting LT before the seasons starts and it is going to be tough to replace him.

I wouldn't be surprised if they shift Ifedi and Pocic.
 

blstoker

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Well you lose your starting LT before the seasons starts and it is going to be tough to replace him.

I wouldn't be surprised if they shift Ifedi and Pocic.

Well, with Brown possibly back next season, Fant may be moved to RT, which means Ifedi needs to move anyway.
 
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