Ranking the Rebuilding Teams In The Western Conference

[PnkPanther]

The Timberwolves believe it or not are only the 10th youngest team in the league. The Thunder by contrast are the 5th youngest team in the Nba.

True, but 3 budding stars at 21 years of age

 

[ericd7633]

1. Timberwolves
2. Suns
3. Lakers
4. Nuggets
5. Pelicans
6. Kings
7. Mavs

 

[WiggyRuss]

Here's how my rankings go:

1) Timberwolves - Easy choice. No need for explanation.

2) Lakers - Nice young core of players. I have them ranked slightly ahead of the Suns because I think Ingram is the x-factor here. He's struggled this year, but once his body starts to fill out he can really establish himself. His skill set is there and I think he still has a very high ceiling.

3) Suns - Love Booker, Len and Warren. They have movable pieces in Bledsoe and Knight and two rooks in Bender and Chriss who we don't know enough about yet. There's flexibility with this roster in addition to talent.

4) Nuggets - I know there are no stars here, but Jokic is close. The guy is only 21 and he's quickly becoming one of the best centers in the game. His skill set is off the charts. They have cap room and they also have lots of easily movable pieces for a quick turnaround and rebuild. Guys like Gallo, Faried, Chandler and Barton all have really cap friend contracts in today's NBA. You'd still have Murray, Mudiay, Jokic, Harris and Nurkic.

5) Pelicans - They have a bonafide arguably top 5 talent player in the NBA in AD. The problem is that they're cap strung. Their next two best players Jrue and Tyreke are free agents this upcoming offseason. Add to that they're paying Asik 10M, Soloman Hill 11M and E'twaun Moore 8M a year for the next 4 seasons and that's going to be hard to move. Not completely sold on Buddy Hield either. It's really too bad because the Pelicans locked up Anthony Davis at the perfect time with his contract. He's going to be making the same as Harrison Barnes for the next 4 years. Think about that.

6) Kings - It's not that I have them below the Pelicans, but more so I have them right above the Mavs as the worst. Look I love Cousins and think he's probably the best center of the game, but he's in line to get that veteran's designation contract. After he has that, he basically can hold the organization hostage. Who's going to check him? If they do, what will his reaction be? Will he demand a trade after he signs? There's just no knowing what's going to go on with him. I don't trust him right now to build an organization around, despite his talent.

7) Mavs - It's all about talent and assets here. They don't have much in the cupboard. Barnes has played well and considering the contracts handed out in the off-season, he's pretty much living up to his. After that Dirk probably retires if not this year, then for sure the next. Even then he's not the old dirk, he's just old...dirk. Wes Matthews is a very servicable 2-guard but after that they have next to nothing.

I see your logic in having the Pelicans so low- i just dont agree with it.

the Lakers would trade whatever it took to get Anthony Davis- shit anyone would. Straight up- Anthony Davis trade wise? who WOULDNT you trade Anthony Davis for ocnsidering he is ona long term contract?

I mean- if LeBron wasnt from Cleveland and the Cavs werent heavy favorites to get to the Finals- how could you not consider it? and thats LeBron.....other guys like Curry, Durant etc. are in that same category as LEBron.

Kawhi Leonard---- you prob dont trade for Davis. Other than that? Id deal Westbrook for him in a second considering Westbrook is a FA after next year. Harden?---- i dunno- maybe/probably put Harden in that higher group...

Paul GEorge or Jimmy Butler? SEEYA....he gone!....Klay Thompson or Kyrie?--- GONE.


You pretty much NEED a top 10 player to win in the NBA. You couldnt PAY ENOUGH in a trade to get a 23 year old top 10 player with multiple years left on his deal.

Its why I have the PElicans #2. They have the most important piece- the piece you need- and hes locked up for years to come. You can work around that.

Ingram, Booker, Russell, Randle, Bender, Mudiay, Jokic?--- maybe one becomes a "superstar", maybe a couple become all stars, and a couple become solid/good NBA players----

Anthony Davis is a "superstar". The hardest part is done. He has best player in the league upside - and i dont see him topping out at anything less than top 5- if hes not there already.

Plus- Jrue Holiday is only 26...he has had injury issues but hes just coming into his prime- i wouldnt go Conley with him K-wise, but id extend him---- Buddy Hield looks like a player- one of the top rookies in my opinion.

They must have been high on Solomon Hill.....i was never that impressed...him, Moore and Asik approx 30M is def. not good- however- if they can get off of the 8 million owed to Langston Galloway and Quincy Poindexter next year they will have just over 30M in cap room- plenty to bring in a big time player.

 

[CitySushi]

I see your logic in having the Pelicans so low- i just dont agree with it.

the Lakers would trade whatever it took to get Anthony Davis- shit anyone would. Straight up- Anthony Davis trade wise? who WOULDNT you trade Anthony Davis for ocnsidering he is ona long term contract?

I mean- if LeBron wasnt from Cleveland and the Cavs werent heavy favorites to get to the Finals- how could you not consider it? and thats LeBron.....other guys like Curry, Durant etc. are in that same category as LEBron.

Kawhi Leonard---- you prob dont trade for Davis. Other than that? Id deal Westbrook for him in a second considering Westbrook is a FA after next year. Harden?---- i dunno- maybe/probably put Harden in that higher group...

Paul GEorge or Jimmy Butler? SEEYA....he gone!....Klay Thompson or Kyrie?--- GONE.


You pretty much NEED a top 10 player to win in the NBA. You couldnt PAY ENOUGH in a trade to get a 23 year old top 10 player with multiple years left on his deal.

Its why I have the PElicans #2. They have the most important piece- the piece you need- and hes locked up for years to come. You can work around that.

Ingram, Booker, Russell, Randle, Bender, Mudiay, Jokic?--- maybe one becomes a "superstar", maybe a couple become all stars, and a couple become solid/good NBA players----

Anthony Davis is a "superstar". The hardest part is done. He has best player in the league upside - and i dont see him topping out at anything less than top 5- if hes not there already.

Plus- Jrue Holiday is only 26...he has had injury issues but hes just coming into his prime- i wouldnt go Conley with him K-wise, but id extend him---- Buddy Hield looks like a player- one of the top rookies in my opinion.

They must have been high on Solomon Hill.....i was never that impressed...him, Moore and Asik approx 30M is def. not good- however- if they can get off of the 8 million owed to Langston Galloway and Quincy Poindexter next year they will have just over 30M in cap room- plenty to bring in a big time player.

Yeah there's absolutely no substitute for talent. But right now he seems in a relative purgatory.

The Lakers (or any team for that matter) would be knocking on the Pelicans door if they even sniffed he was available for trade. That's how good he is. That said, it's not his value we're talking about, it's the value of the other players around him. Right now who on their team has any trade value? Other than Hield, Tyreke and Holiday, no player on their roster would be high on any gm's list. And of those three, two of them are upcoming free agents, meaning that if you want to keep either of them or both, you're going to have to go deeper into your cap space. Even with Jrue's injury history, he's still looking at least an Eric Gordon like contract of nearly 14M a year. That eats in to the cap space. So you're committed to having Jrue, AD, Hield, stuck with a lot of albatross contracts and no cap space to sign any significant free agents. The best the Pelicans can hope for is to actually tank and hope that they strike draft gold to pair with Davis.

Even then they have to wait out their bad contracts to at least their 1 year expiring to be able to move them. So you've just wasted another 3 years trying to salvage the situation.

 

[trojanfan12]

He's struggled this year, but once his body starts to fill out he can really establish himself. His skill set is there and I think he still has a very high ceiling.

He seems to be gaining confidence in himself. He's actually been playing much better over the past 10-15 games. All of his numbers are up and we're seeing flashes of the player everyone thinks he can become. Last night, when the Lakers outscored the Pacers 35-22 in the 3rd quarter, it seemed like he was involved in virtually every play on both ends of the floor.

It's fun watching him develop. His game is a lot like KD's. Not saying he'll reach that level (although he might be able to), just that he has the same style of play. He's got a lot to learn if he wants to get to KD's level though.

 

[trojanfan12]

the Lakers would trade whatever it took to get Anthony Davis- shit anyone would. Straight up- Anthony Davis trade wise? who WOULDNT you trade Anthony Davis for ocnsidering he is ona long term contract?

Yeah, the Lakers have said they aren't interested in trading any of the youngsters. However, I'm pretty sure they'd give up 2 or 3 of them for AD. Dude is special.

 

[trojanfan12]

The Timberwolves believe it or not are only the 10th youngest team in the league. The Thunder by contrast are the 5th youngest team in the Nba.

It's about the core guys. Most of the older guys who raise their overall age will be gone by the time the T-Wolves are contenders.

The Lakers are in a similar situation (although I don't know where they rank in overall roster age). They have veterans in their 30's like Deng, Mozgov, MWP, Lou Williams and Nick Young. Few, if any of those guys, will be on the team 3 or so years from now when the young guys are starting to enter their primes and hopefully contending.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, the Lakers have said they aren't interested in trading any of the youngsters. However, I'm pretty sure they'd give up 2 or 3 of them for AD. Dude is special.

He gets hurt a lot too...maybe a Ralph Sampson/Bill Walton situation where he never achieves his potential greatness because he's always hurt.

 

[DJ]

Here are mine. These ranks are based on how likely I think each team is to be a contender at some point in the future without a massive overhaul.

1. TWolves: easy choice here with 3 really good young players + Dunn who has a lot of talent.

2. Lakers: I am not sure whether or not this group has a superstar, but if one emerges they will be in a good spot. Despite recent past failures in free agency, the Lakers are also more likely than anybody on this list to land a legit star that way.

3. Suns: Booker could end up being great. If a couple of the other young guys develop into stars, this group could be the next out of nowhere power a la Golden State.

4. Pelicans: I love Davis and I like Holliday, but the front office has proven to be incompetent. You simply do not surround a talent like Davis with ball dominant guards. I can't see Davis winning until he leaves NO.

5. Nuggets: they have some nice pieces, (especially Jokic) but this team has lacked direction ever since they traded Melo. I can't see this core ever being better than a 5 or 6 seed.

6. Mavericks: They have nothing, but Cuban has won before and will win again. Someday.

7. Kings: This is all about management. Boogie might get them to the playoffs, but this group is not going anywhere and Boogie will most likely walk away for nothing.

I agree with this.....Think the Lakers deserve to be higher than the Pelicans.....but I'd have

1-Minny
2-LA
3-NO
4-Phoenix
5-Sacramento
6-Denver
7-Dallas

 

[Arizona_Sting]

I'd take what Phoenix has over what LA does in terms of current roster.

Not impressed with Ingram or Russell at all this year. Booker is light years ahead of both, plus you have Warren, Chriss, and Bender showing flashes of what they'll be able to do. Hell, Bledsoe is our best player just entering his prime so this team may not be as far off as some think.

 

[WiggyRuss]

the Lakers have the Nuggets at home tonight.

From what has gone on thus far this season- if i had to pick one game from this game for my team - whether in todays game or long term over the next 5 years- i dont think there would be any other choice than Jokic.

Once the Nugz stopped trying to play Nurkic and Jokic together- Jokic has took off and has been playing amazing ball.

Id take Jokic if i could take anyone off either team I think

what you guys think?

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'd take what Phoenix has over what LA does in terms of current roster.

Not impressed with Ingram or Russell at all this year. Booker is light years ahead of both, plus you have Warren, Chriss, and Bender showing flashes of what they'll be able to do. Hell, Bledsoe is our best player just entering his prime so this team may not be as far off as some think.

There are 40 small forwards that average at least 20 minutes in the NBA. the only one shooting under 36% is INgram.

if you go back to even last year- over 40 small forwards averaged over 20 minutes a game- and none of them averaged under 36% from the field........

Booker is the guy you take.....all though- if i had to choose betweeen Booker and Jokic....i dunno.....that one is getting REALLY close.

 

[trojanfan12]

the Lakers have the Nuggets at home tonight.

From what has gone on thus far this season- if i had to pick one game from this game for my team - whether in todays game or long term over the next 5 years- i dont think there would be any other choice than Jokic.

Once the Nugz stopped trying to play Nurkic and Jokic together- Jokic has took off and has been playing amazing ball.

Id take Jokic if i could take anyone off either team I think

what you guys think?

He's definitely been looking good. I think if that draft were done over, a few players would be in different spots. Only time will tell though as to how good any of these guys will ultimately be.

 

[trojanfan12]

There are 40 small forwards that average at least 20 minutes in the NBA. the only one shooting under 36% is INgram.

if you go back to even last year- over 40 small forwards averaged over 20 minutes a game- and none of them averaged under 36% from the field........

Booker is the guy you take.....all though- if i had to choose betweeen Booker and Jokic....i dunno.....that one is getting REALLY close.

How many of those 40 are 19 year old rookies who are splitting time between PG and SF?

 

[WiggyRuss]

How many of those 40 are 19 year old rookies who are splitting time between PG and SF?

its a fair point....like i said though- i have seen the Browns ruin many-a-promising-career because they threw a guy into the fire with no protection and ruined the guys confidence.

I dont think Real-plus-minus is the end-all-be all stat---its a decent stat....

its defined as:

• RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors

It does a pretty decent job...the top guys are CP, Lowry, Butler, RW, Draymond, Bron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kawhi, Cousins, Milsap, Giannis, Jokic, Gobert, Love, Crowder, Porter, Wall, Davis--- that is the RPM top 20.

NBA Real Plus-Minus - National Basketball Association - ESPN

out of 441 players ranked by RPM- Brandon Ingram is 441. There are definitely advantages to throwing a guy into the fire and letting him take his lumps---- you gotta do it at some point- but at the same time- there is a fine line you have to walk and you dont want to risk ruining a guys confidence. If Tim Couch was drafted onto a decent team with a good coaching staff- i thought out of all the Browns QBs there have been- he would have actually had the chance to have been pretty damn good- but all the chaos and upheaval and losing seemed to ruin him.....you just have to be careful that doesnt happen with Ingram I think.

 

[WiggyRuss]

How many of those 40 are 19 year old rookies who are splitting time between PG and SF?

Zubac has actually looked pretty damn good lately.

pretty interesting to see Young and Williams continue to put up good numbers. Each may have a fair amt. of value....itll be interesting to see what happens with those 2 come the deadline- whether the Lakers hold on to them or keep them- each has increased his value this season quite a bit.

they justkeep trucking along...combined 9/13 from 3...unreal.

 

[WiggyRuss]

@trojanfan12 do you know why Jokic didnt play tonight vs. the Lakers?....No Mudiay either....hmmm..

and this is the BIGGEST surprise for me--- the Nuggets have Jameer Nelson - who played 37 freaking minutes--- and hes freaking ancient.....

AND WIL BARTON got a DNP-CD....holy shit--- if the Cavs had Will Barton to come off the bench id be freaking ECSTATIC- and hes getting DNP-CDs when JOkic and Mudiay arent even playing?--- that makes no sense to me....Will B is good- dont you think @Mecca ?

career high ten assists for Russell tonight too--- very good game for him.

 

[trojanfan12]

its a fair point....like i said though- i have seen the Browns ruin many-a-promising-career because they threw a guy into the fire with no protection and ruined the guys confidence.

I dont think Real-plus-minus is the end-all-be all stat---its a decent stat....

its defined as:

• RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors

It does a pretty decent job...the top guys are CP, Lowry, Butler, RW, Draymond, Bron, Durant, Harden, Steph, Kawhi, Cousins, Milsap, Giannis, Jokic, Gobert, Love, Crowder, Porter, Wall, Davis--- that is the RPM top 20.

NBA Real Plus-Minus - National Basketball Association - ESPN

out of 441 players ranked by RPM- Brandon Ingram is 441. There are definitely advantages to throwing a guy into the fire and letting him take his lumps---- you gotta do it at some point- but at the same time- there is a fine line you have to walk and you dont want to risk ruining a guys confidence. If Tim Couch was drafted onto a decent team with a good coaching staff- i thought out of all the Browns QBs there have been- he would have actually had the chance to have been pretty damn good- but all the chaos and upheaval and losing seemed to ruin him.....you just have to be careful that doesnt happen with Ingram I think.

Yeah, so far he seems to be handling it alright. But I get what you mean about the potential to ruin his confidence. As I mentioned earlier, Luke seems to think it's more about the "rookie wall" than anything else.

I will say though, if he doesn't start hitting In n Out or Fatburger about 4-5 times a day, he's never going to put on the weight he needs and that will hurt him as his career continues.

 

[trojanfan12]

Zubac has actually looked pretty damn good lately.

pretty interesting to see Young and Williams continue to put up good numbers. Each may have a fair amt. of value....itll be interesting to see what happens with those 2 come the deadline- whether the Lakers hold on to them or keep them- each has increased his value this season quite a bit.

they justkeep trucking along...combined 9/13 from 3...unreal.

Really liking how Zubac is developing. He needed to lose some weight and did (probably should have given some of it to Ingram). He looked really good last night. To be fair, Jokic didn't play, so we don't know how he would have fared against him, but he has been steadily improving.

So far, he seems to be a pretty good hybrid between "today's centers" and "traditional back to the basket centers." He doesn't have the range of some of today's centers, but he is able to play facing the basket as well as with his back to the basket. If he develops any kind of range at all, he could be pretty good. Maybe a Vucevic type center. Apparently, some of the credit for it goes to Mozgov.

 

[trojanfan12]

@trojanfan12 do you know why Jokic didnt play tonight vs. the Lakers?....No Mudiay either....hmmm..

Left hip flexor strain. Apparently Mudiay has some kind of back injury.

career high ten assists for Russell tonight too--- very good game for him.

I was surprised that this was his first 10 assist game. But then, considering the BS that Byron put him through last year, maybe I shouldn't be? I will say, while he hasn't exactly lived up to his draft status so far, the Lakers offense looks a lot better with him than without. Now, if he could just learn to play better defense, we might have something.