Ralphie traded

[Cbrower91]

Ralphie and 2 2nd rounders for polak and spaling

 

[sjrules99]

its the usual dougie overpay, but not the end of the world. These two picks might affect the team 5 to 7 years from now when the prospects would be in their early 20's, so it's a long way away. What I dont like is that I don't feel the return is good.

1. Polak is a bottom pairing Dman. I dont see him as a replacement for any of the top 4. he can replace a guy like dillon, but dillon will be back soon. I actually love how demelo's game has come around. He is a threat offensively too, and his PP work is nice. I dont see polak as much of an upgrade over demelo. Definitely over tennyson so its not bad for down depth, but not much of a help if healthy.

2. Spaling is not much better than a barclay goodrow. He better than brown (anyone is), but goodrow could slot in just fine there. Or goldobin if they wanted to give him a shot as he is playing much better on the cuda of late. Spaling isn't a big help or upgrade over pretty much anything already in the system.

In other words, they traded 2 second rounders for 2 guys who might be tiny upgrades, but arent going to make much of a difference. I just wonder if two 2nd rounders couldnt have landed a bit more of an impact player.

up front, one of those 2nds could easily land a teddy purcell from edmonton or legwand from buffalo. Maybe they could have landed Jiri Hudler or Ladd for both picks. That would have been a HUGE acquisition and immediately revolutionized the forward depth. Or they could have targeted kris russell, who adds much more at both ends.

most of all, the most pressing and obvious need is a backup goalie, and now they will have to give up even more future and picks to get one. That was what they REALLY needed and still do. Whats dougie gunna do there?

I still feel that dougie is obsessed with physicality over skill. the signings of brown and scott, the overpay for dillon... Its paying for roughness that lacks skill. the reaon the sharks have been on such a roll is because they have iced a lineup with 4 lines of skill, and havent been in a fight (aside from brown horribly) in a moth. They are focues on winning games of skill not fighting, taking dumb penalties, etc. This move returns the team from skill to physical, and it may backfire. Either way, it's definitely not maximizing the asset return.

 

[Likewall32]

Not a fan of this trade at all... 2 2nd rounders seems like a huge over payment.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

A 2nd for Polak is about the right price for him. The other 2nd is payment to get Raffi's salary off the books to give the team some cap room to make more moves possible.

 

[MrFlyingV]

So the Raffi Torres era ends. 28 games played, many more injured and/or suspended. Goes down as one of the worst Sharks ever. Oh well.

Not a fan of the trade either. 2 2nds gone now and a 1st for Jones already (that one worth it imo), so they are short on high round picks the next few years when players like Marleau and Thornton are going to be gone. Maybe Dougie takes a swing at a big FA eventually and draft picks be damned. I'm OK with Pollack, but what does Spaling offer?

 

[sjrules99]

A 2nd for Polak is about the right price for him. The other 2nd is payment to get Raffi's salary off the books to give the team some cap room to make more moves possible.

agreed about the 2nd being in the market for polak, but a back up goalie is much more needed. Also, wasnt ralphie and smith's salaries buried. And bringing in Spaling offsets torres anyways as he costs about the same. a 2nd rounder for spaling is a ridiculous overpay. It was too much, but again, it only will affect the team 5+ years from now.

The back up goalie issue a biggie. They really need one.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

They could only bury $900k of both Raffi and Smith's contracts plus they will have Stalock's contract still on the books if they get another back up. Moving out Raffi's contract gives them the room to make a more significant move than just a back up goalie. Friedman was on the NHL network and mentioned the Sharks as one of the teams chasing Andrew Ladd.

 

[sjrules99]

They could only bury $900k of both Raffi and Smith's contracts plus they will have Stalock's contract still on the books if they get another back up. Moving out Raffi's contract gives them the room to make a more significant move than just a back up goalie. Friedman was on the NHL network and mentioned the Sharks as one of the teams chasing Andrew Ladd.

really? I hate the chasing of UFA rentals. the sharks have done it so many times and lost so much future for nothing. They have 4 good lines, and the D is deep enough. Their farm is rather thin as is and they dont need to go throwaway even more future for rentals. I hope they dont blow the bank for ladd. just get a competent backup fpor a depth pick and call it a day.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

really? I hate the chasing of UFA rentals. the sharks have done it so many times and lost so much future for nothing. They have 4 good lines, and the D is deep enough. Their farm is rather thin as is and they dont need to go throwaway even more future for rentals. I hope they dont blow the bank for ladd. just get a competent backup fpor a depth pick and call it a day.

I'm on he fence when it comes to trading for Ladd specifically. I get where you are coming from in regards to the Sharks future but at the same time I think Ladd would be the perfect fit with Ward and Marleau and along with a back up goalie would make the Sharks the best team in the Pacific.

 

[sjrules99]

I'm on he fence when it comes to trading for Ladd specifically. I get where you are coming from in regards to the Sharks future but at the same time I think Ladd would be the perfect fit with Ward and Marleau and along with a back up goalie would make the Sharks the best team in the Pacific.

I still feel like their D is lacking even with polak. The forwards are good, especially once wingels returns, and trading the equivalent of another 1st rounder (likely more) for arental like ladd bascially makes dougie mortgage a huge part of the future (a 1st and 2 2nds) on rentals. I dont think the sharks can compete against a healthy chicago. I dont see them defeating ANA, LA, and CHI to make it out of the west. So, losing 2 1sts (includes jones) and two 2nds is a huge amount of future mortgage. Jumbo and patty have a year or two left (patty is already in way decline), and ward and martin have 1 or two good years as well. The kids are going to need to take over, so rentals are not the way to go.

Look at the rentals of the past:
Guerin (1st)
Soupy (1st+bernier)
white (2nd)
moore (2nd)
Moen and huskypants (Bonino)
rivet (gorges +1st rounder)
etc...

That's a total 3 1st rounders, two second rounders, and a few solid player-to-be like bonino, and im sure Im forgetting several. that's alot of future deals for rentals, and none of them really worked out. The vast majority of rentals are a total waste of future, and I would prefer to keep the picks and stockpile the farm than mortgage the future and go through a big decline.

 

[Likewall32]

The big question tho -- Does Demelo stay in the lineup once DIllon is healthy?? Surely Doug must see hpw much better the team plays with Dildo out of the lineup...

 

[sjrules99]

The big question tho -- Does Demelo stay in the lineup once DIllon is healthy?? Surely Doug must see hpw much better the team plays with Dildo out of the lineup...

Of course not! Dougie much prefers the big slow, physical Dman over the faster, more skilled two-way player. No shocker that Polak-Dillon is -1 so far tonight.

This is another reason I question the polak deal. in addition to the picks, the sharks basically bench demelo, who has infused the 2nd PP unit with some skill and speed (4 PP points and a big part of the resurgence offensively of pickles), and has been very steady as a #6, while getting valuable experience which will help him potentially climb into a top 4 role down the line.

Demelo in the last 9 games: 1G, 1A, +4. That's very solid for your #6. And, very telling, his TOI went from 7:57 (and consistently around 10 mins/gm) 10 games ago, to averaging 15 mins/gm in hist last 3 games, and consistently 13+ before that. He was steadily getting more and more ice, and had not been a minus player in 9 straight games. Not surprisingly, the sharks were 6-2-1 in that stretch. His game was really rising, so I view Polak as a step backward in each way.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Polak isn't slow though. He actually skates very well and has a pretty good 1st pass out of the zone. I think Wilson and DeBoer realized they needed someone better suited for PO hockey than Demelo is at this point in his career.

Demelo to his credit has improved his play through out the year. A bit surprising given he was nothing short of hot garbage in the AHL.

 

[sjrules99]

and polak fails an early clear right off the bat on the PK, then fails to block iggy's goal as he is not in the lane. He is now on the ice for both goals against and neither goal for.

another big slow body that quick skilled teams can abuse.

 

[sjrules99]

Polak isn't slow though. He actually skates very well and has a pretty good 1st pass out of the zone. I think Wilson and DeBoer realized they needed someone better suited for PO hockey than Demelo is at this point in his career.

Demelo to his credit has improved his play through out the year. A bit surprising given he was nothing short of hot garbage in the AHL.

By Big and slow, I dont mean that he skates terribly slowly, but that he is not quick. Dillon is a reasonable skater, too, but he is not quick. Polak also is a total dearth offensively which really hurts the possession numbers. Polak's possession numbers are awful.

Obviously, they don't trust demelo and obviously they worry about an injury to the top 5, so I get polak for depth, but I just dont see him as particularly valuable, and I reallly like demelo's game right now.

 

[sjrules99]

the last piece of the deal I dont like is that the team, as is, is playing well. the chemistry is good. They have been winning games. Why fuck with that? Why demote a player like demelo who has absolutely earned the right to play every night? What message does that send to him? Why not call up a goldobin or goodrow internally to replace wingels as neither of those two is any worse that spaling really?

When a team is playing well, and young players are a big part of that, dont bring in external vets who then force young players to sit. it sends a bad message to them, and it only makes sense if its a huge upgrade.

I would not be surprised at all if they go on a slump in large part because of this trade. Frankly, if they lose 3-2, it's Polak's -2 (if you count the PK) that's a big part of it.

 

[sjrules99]

great play by marleau on the GTG, huge play on the point. Doesnt get on the scoresheet, but he is the key play there. Nice to patty win a key battle, especially after not burying it point blank 30 seconds before.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

By Big and slow, I dont mean that he skates terribly slowly, but that he is not quick. Dillon is a reasonable skater, too, but he is not quick. Polak also is a total dearth offensively which really hurts the possession numbers. Polak's possession numbers are awful.

Obviously, they don't trust demelo and obviously they worry about an injury to the top 5, so I get polak for depth, but I just dont see him as particularly valuable, and I reallly like demelo's game right now.

His possession numbers are bad because he played for a terrible possession team. He's a good quick skating mobile dman that will do fine with the Sharks. I would of prefered a dman with a little higher offensive acumen but Polak is a better dman than Demelo currently is. That's not a knock to Demelo as he's played well but he's not someone you could play for many minutes in the PO's.

 

[sjrules99]

His possession numbers are bad because he played for a terrible possession team. He's a good quick skating mobile dman that will do fine with the Sharks. I would of prefered a dman with a little higher offensive acumen but Polak is a better dman than Demelo currently is. That's not a knock to Demelo as he's played well but he's not someone you could play for many minutes in the PO's.

I disagree that polak is better than demelo right now. He's more "proven" and more "veteran", but demelo was playing spectacularly the last 10 games since he got a regular 13-15 mins on a 3rd pairing. Outside of the this year, polak has consistently ranked among the worst on his team in +/- both in toronto and Stl. totally overrated.

On a side note, he is joining the sharks at a good time to ease his way in as the sharks have a super easy stretch of games vs. non-PO teams. buf, van, mtl, van, van, cgy, edm, NJ in the next 8 games. Not a single one of those are currently the in PO's, so anything much less than 6-2 over that stretch would be a little disappointing to me. This is a nice chance for Polak to acquaint himself to the sharks against lesser teams.

In addition, the sharks have just 6 games left against the current top 15 teams in the league (WSH, DAL, CHI, STL, FLA, NYR, LA, TBL, BOS, ANA, NYI, DET, NSH, PIT, COL)...

That means that 17 of their remaining 23 games are against bottom 1/2 teams (non PO teams), with 15 of 23 at home. The sharks should crush the end of the season with a schedule like that.

p.s.: the one benefit I suppose of the polak deal is that perhaps the minutes of the top 4 can be a bit more limited. playing burns and pickles 26-28 minutes is gunna kill them long term. 22-24 minutes will lessen the wear and tear alot. in that regard, the trade is OK, though I still prefer demelo.

 

[Likewall32]

I dont get why you 2 are arguing of Polak/Demelo... My post was that DILLON returning, not Polak, will force Demelo onto the bench -- I absolutely want Polak in over Demelo... But Demelo is Dillons repacement... Dillon returning is the reason for Demelos sitting, not the arrival of Polak...

Dillon needs to sit in favor of Demelo...