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PC13 Update (12/6/2017)

Discussion in 'NBA Basketball Forum' started by HurricaneDij39, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    First, let's take a quick look at Mr. George's FT attempts average per season:
    • 2015-16 (with George Hill as point guard) - 6.5 free throw attempts per game.
    • 2016-17 (with Jeff Teague as point guard) - 5.0 free throw attempts per game.
    • 2017-18 to date (with Russell Westbrook as point guard) - 3.8 free throw attempts per game.
    The trend here is obvious - The better the playmaker at the point, the less likely PC13 is going to have to the cojones to get his hands dirty and attack the damn basket.

    Now a look at the respective plus-minus ratings of OKC's three alphas to this point:
    • Westbrook: +4.3
    • Carmelo Anthony: +3.4
    • George: +1.7
    While this could mostly be a reflector of OKC's sub-par bench corps, it's quite obvious who the least effective of the Thunder's three stars is. The nationwide propaganda will always find creative ways to hate on Westbrook and 'Melo first, though.

    OKC is on pace to have their worst season since 2008-09, which was their first after leaving Seattle. George ruined the Pacers' franchise last season. And this season, he's been part of a roster that's left a once-proud franchise that's looked dysfunctional of the court to this point.

    And come next season, he going to ruin the Lakers' franchise as well with his iso-happy, jumper-settling ways. :yahoo:

    Oh, and one final stat for everyone to chew on...

    2017-18 records to date:
    • Pacers: 13-11
    • OKC: 11-12
    Who got fleeced, again? :scratch:
     



  2. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    You are missing the most important and obvious thing.

    Look at Victor Oladipo. How do you explain his struggles last year in his age 24 season, followed by such spectacular breakout this year?

    It is simple. Russ sucks the life out of the playmakers around him because of his incessant need to dominate the ball.

    /End of thread.
     
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  3. trojanfan12

    trojanfan12 R.I.P. Robotic Dreams. Fight On!

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    Who/What is PC13?

    Is that the new term for politically correct? Do I need to move this to the Politics Forum? :noidea:
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  4. trojanfan12

    trojanfan12 R.I.P. Robotic Dreams. Fight On!

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    Exactly. I'd add that, similar to Bosh when he was with Lebron and D-Wade, George was always going to be the most likely of the 3 to have his numbers suffer because he is the least ball dominant of the 3.

    The Heat figured it out by letting Lebron become the distributor and running the offense through him. OKC would probably be best served to do the same with George.

    They won't though, because Westbrook will never go for it.
     
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  5. larryjohn

    larryjohn Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that Paul is getting more shots under 8ft and until 16ft this year than in the previous 2 years. Also, more of his baskets are off assists than in previous 2 years.

    His shots / game is only down slightly. (18.0 -> 17.3)

    He has always had a mediocre FG% -- around 42%-43%. (same as Russ)
     
  6. CitySushi

    CitySushi Hoopla Basketball Strategist

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    Am I the only one here who completely disagrees with @HurricaneDij39 's "better playmakers" assumption?

    Russell Westbrook is probably the worst playmaking PG of the three of Hill, Teague and himself. If anything Hill is probably the best pure point guard of the 3, IMO. I'm not saying he's the best, but he's the best of the 3 in helping to create for others.

    To me, it's absolutely NO shock at all that he's averaging fewer freethrows with Russ. He has the ball in his hand's less, and most times it off of drive and kicks by Westbrook, so George is relegated to the perimeter a lot of times. It makes absolutely sense that he'd average less free throw attempts with Westbrook. If anything this just shows more negatively on Westbrook than it does on Paul George. LOL.
     
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  7. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    No. I actually think Russ is a pretty mediocre playmaker. At the very least, an extremely overrated one. People assume high assists = good playmaker. That ain't the case.
     
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  8. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    LOL @ George Hill being a "playmaker"...Ultra-convenient sheeple of this board to turn this into a Westbrook-bashing thread.
     
  9. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    And what did 'Dipo do before OKC??? Was moved to the bench by Scott Skiles in 20 games for Orlando...

    Think maybe the Pacers culture and his familiarity of the state of Indiana (his college stomping grounds) might have a little to do with his breakout season?
     
  10. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    @tlance Oladipo got off the an extremely hot start shooting the ball during his OKC 2016-17 campaign, then missed nine games with a sprained wrist and never fully regained his early-season confidence.

    I'd say he's regained that confidence with the Pacers.:clap:
     
  11. trojanfan12

    trojanfan12 R.I.P. Robotic Dreams. Fight On!

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    No, you're not. Westbrook is a great playmaker in the sense that he does a great job of making plays for/by himself. However, when it comes to a pg's responsibility of making plays for others...he's average at best. This is a big part of why KD is with the Warriors and, unless something changes, we are unlikely to see PG stay in OKC.
     
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  12. CitySushi

    CitySushi Hoopla Basketball Strategist

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    I'm not trying to turn this into a Westbrook bashing session, but I was saying your stats that you posted indicated more flaws on Westbrook, than they do Paul George. You could have picked a ton of other stats that may have solidified your argument but you picked a really weak one to try to bash George.

    At the end of the day I could list all sorts of advanced stats that show why Westbrook is the problem, or even comparisons for George Hill, but it would be redundant. Russell Westbrook doesn't put his teammates in positions to succeed. Their success is always secondary to Russ. George Hill is a better point guard in the sense he's actively the guy trying to find teammates or get them the ball in the right spots. Russ does not do this and I think you would agree with this sentiment. Again I'm not saying George Hill is the superior player at all, just a better facilitator of the offense.
     
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  13. Mebert

    Mebert Not Mebert's Alt Supporting Member Level 3

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    When factoring in your basketball skills for a player you forgot to factor in the part that @HurricaneDij39 finds most important. Is the player with the Pacers currently? If yes they are clearly still awesome for what ever argument. If no then fuck that guy he sucks anyway.
     
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  14. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    This is a lot more than a hot start.

    In Orlando, Dipo was jerked around by the whimsical rotations of Scott Skiles. None of their young players (outside of Vucevic) were able to consistently perform well. The fact that dipo was benched was more an indictment of Skiles than Dipo.

    Still, his 2nd NBA season he produced much better numbers than he did in his fourth. Really, what he is doing now is a pretty natural statistical progression from where he was in year two. But, Skiles jerked him around in Orlando and Russ didn't let him have the ball in OKC.
     
  15. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    OK then...

    (Enes Kanter says hello btw)
     
  16. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    I know my own damn team and I can honestly say your assessment on George Hill is fucking retarded to say the least...

    During his four seasons here as the undisputed starting point guard, the Pacers never finished higher than 20th in total offense. He helped get his coach fired as a result. Larry Bird had even come out and said during Vogel's dismissal that he wanted the Pacers to score more.

    And now suddenly he's a better facilitator than Jeff Teague and Russell Westbrook??? I get that you want to go to extreme levels to lick KD's balls and continuously bash Westbrook, but Bird's words are Bird's words, and he knew what he wanted for our organization.

    Hill is and always was a good defender and a good shooter, and at this stage of his career he'd be best served as a caretaker or utilityman on a good defensive team like the Spurs. But a playmaker? He is not...
     
  17. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    I praised Jeff Teague and last I checked he isn't a current Pacers player.

    Nice try though. (Well, not really)
     
  18. HurricaneDij39

    HurricaneDij39 Unpopular Basketball Opinions Poster

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    Before this season, Oladipo's best single-season performance came during a 2014-15 campaign when he averaged 17 PPG for an awful Orlando team that had fired their coach midseason that year.

    And you expected him to average upwards of 20 PPG for a playoff contending OKC team??? I don't think those expectations were too realistic my friend...

    It's time to give the Pacers credit for making the most of his potential as opposed to bashing the people and teams in Orlando and OKC for not doing so. Of course, bashing Russ is literally all you ever do on this site so the reality is that this is a lost cause on my part.
     
  19. tlance

    tlance Kyrie Hater

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    No.

    I actually expected Oladipo to do about what he did because I know who Russ is.

    All season long the narrative was that Westbrook had no help and had to do everything himself. But, Oladipo is a pretty damn good offensive player. He never got the chance to show it last year though.

    Obviously he will have more opportunities on a Pacer team without a bonafide star, but Dipo is literally 13th in the NBA in PPG and also boasts an outstanding 55.5% effective FG%. All this while being treated number 1 option and the focal point for opposing defenses.

    If Russ were any good at all at creating for teammates and making the game easier for them, we would not have heard all season long that he had no help on offense. Because, again, Oladipo is pretty damn good. And he could have been last year too.

    And it isn't just Dipo. KD's efficiency sky rocketed his first year away from OKC. Dion Waiters had a breakout season a year after leaving. Harden went from 6th man of the year to MVP candidate and now Paul George is really struggling. Yes, there are other factors involved in some of these cases, but the pattern is real. If Westbrook were a good playmaker, at least 1 of these guys would have had their best seasons in OKC given the attention westbrook draws.
     
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  20. Heatles84

    Heatles84 AKA AllaboutdatU!

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    It makes perfect sense what you just said. But certain posters just like to derp themselves into stupidity.
     
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