OTAs

[I miss Dawkins]

rookie season stats have a LOT to do with the situation a QB is going into also.

Dak had one of the best OL in the nfl to start behind, with a great Rookie RB (also made great by a stud OL) and nice WR's to throw to as well. Would dak have the stats he did, if he had been drafted by CLE?? OR NYJ? or a dozen other teams???

There is a reason Eli Manning threw a hissy when he was first drafted by SD and didn't want to go there. He had learned that lesson from his dad who was an incredible talent and went to a situation where he had no chance of succeeding. I still don't agree with ELI doing that, but he did what was best for him - and he now has multiple SB rings as well. Would he if he had gone to SD?

Wentz is gifted in his size and athleticism; he has an incredible work ethic and has shown a lot of accuracy and talent for where he is. He came into a situation as a rookie with a spotty OL (esp after Lane left) and WR's with the most drops in the NFL, and a poor running game. The situation is improving. Wentz is continuing to improve. Talent around him is improving. There is reason to be hopeful and excited for ANY TRUE PHI fan. Premier is not a PHI fan. So why spend the time to try and convince him otherwise?? Would we really spend the time arguing with a DAL fan on this board, or just recognize it for the trash talk bias it is? He is proven wrong over and over, and everytime he is - he just ignores it and goes on to another point in another thread.

 

[Premium]

Those 9 guys had arguably the best stats as rookie QB's in the history of the NFL. Carson Wentz numbers stand up against those numbers.

Wentz had worse stats than all 9 of those guys. Your argument is simply mathematically inaccurate.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Wentz had worse stats than all 9 of those guys. Your argument is simply mathematically inaccurate.

Are you still on this? Did not get any affection from wifey this morning and need attention? This argument is long over. Your argument was that Wentz rookie season was underwhelming. I proved your ignorance and stupidity on that. Prove his rookie season was underwhelming. If you can't move on.

 

[Premium]

year % yds tds int rat
Big Ben 2004 66.4 2,621 17 11 98.1
RGIII 2012 65.6 3,200 20 5 102.4
Cam 2011 60.0 4,051 21 17 84.5
Wilson 2012 64.1 3,111 26 10 100.0
Marino 1983 58.4 2,210 20 6 96.0
Ryan 2008 61.1 3,440 16 11 87.7
Luck 2012 54.1 4,374 23 18 76.5
Dalton 2011 58.1 3,398 20 13 80.4
Winston 2015 58.3 4,042 22 15 84.2
Peyton 1998 56.7 3,739 26 28 71.2

Wentz 2016 62.4 3,782 16 14 79.3

By QB rating, only two are lower on the list, and I think the author chose to include them as they were big names, and only had low QB ratings because of the high INT rate, which is a correctable problem with experience. In those cases they also threw a high number of TDs which indicated that they knew how to make plays.

Not on the list, are such players as Bradford who had a somewhat similar 18/15 TD ratio, and has never really developed into a high TD guy. Tim Tebow actually had a better QB rating as a rookie at at 82.1 clip. Kapernick posted a 98.3 QB rating in his first year. Charlie Batch posted an 83.5 with an 11/5 TD to INT ratio.

I will give you that Wentz is comparable to Peyton, Luck and Dalton as rookies, but you also need to throw Tebow, Bradford, Kapernick and Batch in the mix as well. Which leaves us back where we started....Wentz has alot to prove and we really don't know what we have yet.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Your argument is beyond stupid. The list I provided is the best rookie QB performances in the history of the NFL. Are you going to sit here and say that in order for you to say that Wentz did not have a bad rookie season he had to put up one of the best performances in the history of the NFL for all rookies?

 

[Premium]

Your argument is beyond stupid. The list I provided is the best rookie QB performances in the history of the NFL. Are you going to sit here and say that in order for you to say that Wentz did not have a bad rookie season he had to put up one of the best performances in the history of the NFL for all rookies?

It was you, not me that brought up that list and argued that Wentz put up comparable stats as a rookie. I agree its a stupid argument and pretty much irrelevant as he doesn't measure up really, and even if he did there are many other journeyman QBs that put up just as good of numbers as rookies. Good to hear you now understand that.

 

[PhillyGreen]

It was you, not me that brought up that list and argued that Wentz put up comparable stats as a rookie. I agree its a stupid argument and pretty much irrelevant as he doesn't measure up really, and even if he did there are many other journeyman QBs that put up just as good of numbers as rookies. Good to hear you now understand that.

You truly are an idiot. I mean this when it comes to football. You have a routine that when you are wrong you tend to take the debate into another area. You tried this very same thing with I miss Dawkins in the thread regarding Peters being extended thread. It is the reason that just about everyone here can't stand you. It is sad to because it is obvious you are an intelligent person with obvious critical thinking skills. However when it comes to the the NFL you are out of your league on this board and really should just go away. Something you are not capable of because you are an attention whore that just loves arguing.

So I will explain this one last time and then I will put your dumb ass on ignore like the rest of the board.

The list I linked was not to start a debate about how good Wentz is. It was a rebuttal to your claim that he did not have a good season. As a rookie Wentz had a very good season. It is not any simpler than that.

 

[Premium]

You truly are an idiot. I mean this when it comes to football. You have a routine that when you are wrong you tend to take the debate into another area. You tried this very same thing with I miss Dawkins in the thread regarding Peters being extended thread. It is the reason that just about everyone here can't stand you. It is sad to because it is obvious you are an intelligent person with obvious critical thinking skills. However when it comes to the the NFL you are out of your league on this board and really should just go away. Something you are not capable of because you are an attention whore that just loves arguing.

So I will explain this one last time and then I will put your dumb ass on ignore like the rest of the board.

The list I linked was not to start a debate about how good Wentz is. It was a rebuttal to your claim that he did not have a good season. As a rookie Wentz had a very good season. It is not any simpler than that.

Same old same old with you....Can't make a critical argument so you call me an idiot instead. Ironic really.

 

[Northern Eagle]

You truly are an idiot. I mean this when it comes to football. You have a routine that when you are wrong you tend to take the debate into another area. You tried this very same thing with I miss Dawkins in the thread regarding Peters being extended thread. It is the reason that just about everyone here can't stand you. It is sad to because it is obvious you are an intelligent person with obvious critical thinking skills. However when it comes to the the NFL you are out of your league on this board and really should just go away. Something you are not capable of because you are an attention whore that just loves arguing.

So I will explain this one last time and then I will put your dumb ass on ignore like the rest of the board.

The list I linked was not to start a debate about how good Wentz is. It was a rebuttal to your claim that he did not have a good season. As a rookie Wentz had a very good season. It is not any simpler than that.

We're gonna have to put you and DPD in a steel cage to end this... no DQ's, no count-outs!

 

[PhillyGreen]

We're gonna have to put you and DPD in a steel cage to end this... no DQ's, no count-outs!

LOL...nah....I am done.....he is on ignore. Tired of the constant changing of the debate for arguments sake. He is not worth it.

 

[Rey]

If those are the 10 best rookie seasons for QB's I'd say Wentz had a solid rookie campaign ... if it's only slightly under the top 10 of "all time". Hell, you can even argue Wentz against at least 3 of those on the list. P Manning had 10 more TD's, but also threw 14 more INT's with less yards and completion %age. Matt Ryan had 3 less INT's but Wentz has him beat in every other category ... and lets not forget Wentz also had rushing yards and 2 other scores on the ground. Dalton? splitting hairs ... Big picture when compared to all-time rookie QB season's I'd say he's in the top 10%.

 

[PhillyGreen]

If those are the 10 best rookie seasons for QB's I'd say Wentz had a solid rookie campaign ... if it's only slightly under the top 10 of "all time". Hell, you can even argue Wentz against at least 3 of those on the list. P Manning had 10 more TD's, but also threw 14 more INT's with less yards and completion %age. Matt Ryan had 3 less INT's but Wentz has him beat in every other category ... and lets not forget Wentz also had rushing yards and 2 other scores on the ground. Dalton? splitting hairs ... Big picture when compared to all-time rookie QB season's I'd say he's in the top 10%.

ding, ding, ding....we have a winner.

If the list was created today I think Wentz would be on that list. At worst honorable mention. I think it goes without saying that Dak Prescott would be #1 on the list. What makes Wentz season even more impressive IMO was the stated of the Oline and the receivers he had to work with.

 

[Premium]

If those are the 10 best rookie seasons for QB's I'd say Wentz had a solid rookie campaign ... if it's only slightly under the top 10 of "all time". Hell, you can even argue Wentz against at least 3 of those on the list. P Manning had 10 more TD's, but also threw 14 more INT's with less yards and completion %age. Matt Ryan had 3 less INT's but Wentz has him beat in every other category ... and lets not forget Wentz also had rushing yards and 2 other scores on the ground. Dalton? splitting hairs ... Big picture when compared to all-time rookie QB season's I'd say he's in the top 10%.

Now see there is a well formed discussion. Appreciate the discussion on football rather than the poster as a couple of others can't seem to stop doing. PhillyGreen could take a lesson from this analysis.

I do agree that its an arguable point that Wentz is comparable to 2-3 other rookie seasons on this list. My counterargument to that I made earlier is that this list isn't exactly scientific or complete. There are several other rookie seasons that also could be on this list. Without being exhaustive or scientific about it, I came up with Tebow, Batch and Bradford's rookie seasons also. Then if you just look at young first year starters that were thrown into the mix, you can look at Kapernick, Warner and Favre as well.

Again, I wasn't being overly critical of Wentz's rookie season. Just think it was underwelming or un-remarkable overall. Wentz has alot to prove and how he does this year is going to go along way toward defining the Eagles for the next 10 years as well as the careers of Roseman and Pederson. This is why people care about how we does in off-season workouts. He is an unproven commodity, so his offseason performance is news.