OT: Bearcats

[Ickey Shuffle]

Oh, yeah, and the basketball team is supposed to be pretty decent this year.

Final 4 or bust. That's how good they are this year.

 

[Ickey Shuffle]

Cronin hasn't recruited for shit. 1 semi NBA talent. Whoopie freakin do.

Jacob Evans should be a good 3 and D guy once he declares.

Yeah, recruiting stars are nice and we all get suckered into them, but at the end the effort and toughness they put on the court ( especially on defense ), is what really matters.

 

[Cincyfan78]

My first thought when I read Pitino was out....Cronin would be a great hire for them. Stay tuned, I guess.

I don't see it. Not now. Maybe before all this went down, but not now.

Cronin has spent how many years rebuilding Cincy, and to go to Lou and be looking at 4-5-6 years, minimum, to rebuild? Not counting if the program gets the death penalty, or any other major sanctions?

I just don't see it happening.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Final 4 or bust. That's how good they are this year.

I think the big question they will have is depth. Really the only weakness on the team. If guys can get off the bench and contribute, this team has the talent.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Jacob Evans should be a good 3 and D guy once he declares.

Yeah, recruiting stars are nice and we all get suckered into them, but at the end the effort and toughness they put on the court ( especially on defense ), is what really matters.

When you can't consistently recruit 5* guys, you have to find guys who fit your scheme. Cronin has done a masterful job of finding guys who buy in on defense, and have been just good enough on offense. Past couple of years he's been getting guys who can score, and getting them to buy in defensively (Evans, Cumberland).

 

[cincygrad]

Cincinnati was an Adidas school before signing the Under Armor Deal a few years back. Makes you wonder how close we could have come to getting caught up in this sort of thing. I'm not pointing fingers at Mick or anyone in our program - I think they appear to run a tight ship.... But these types of arrangements between shoe companies and coaching staffs are bound to lead to problems. And I'm sure there is some crazy shit that goes on at lots of big name schools that have been lucky to not catch the attention of the FBI.

 

[Ickey Shuffle]

I think the big question they will have is depth. Really the only weakness on the team. If guys can get off the bench and contribute, this team has the talent.

Williams and Diarra should come in right away and contribute. Jennifer has his flaws but he's pretty useful defensively.

When you can't consistently recruit 5* guys, you have to find guys who fit your scheme. Cronin has done a masterful job of finding guys who buy in on defense, and have been just good enough on offense. Past couple of years he's been getting guys who can score, and getting them to buy in defensively (Evans, Cumberland).

Yup. The offense has continuing trending up, which has been the programs Achilles heel for like... Forever.

But defensive always has to come first.

Cincinnati was an Adidas school before signing the Under Armor Deal a few years back. Makes you wonder how close we could have come to getting caught up in this sort of thing. I'm not pointing fingers at Mick or anyone in our program - I think they appear to run a tight ship.... But these types of arrangements between shoe companies and coaching staffs are bound to lead to problems. And I'm sure there is some crazy shit that goes on at lots of big name schools that have been lucky to not catch the attention of the FBI.

Cronin is as straight as an arrow. I remember he contemplating kicking Yancy freakin Gates off the team for that Xavier fight. No way he'll ever get caught up in shenanigans like this. There's no place for that at UC.

 

[cincygrad]

Williams and Diarra should come in right away and contribute. Jennifer has his flaws but he's pretty useful defensively.



Yup. The offense has continuing trending up, which has been the programs Achilles heel for like... Forever.

But defensive always has to come first.



Cronin is as straight as an arrow. I remember he contemplating kicking Yancy freakin Gates off the team for that Xavier fight. No way he'll ever get caught up in shenanigans like this. There's no place for that at UC.

I'm a big Mick fan.... For a number of reasons. But to say any program is straight, just because you are a fan is ridiculous. And it's not always the head coach that sinks the program.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Let's face it, Mick is straight, by all accounts. However.....Even if he weren't, UC doesn't have that kind of coin. Not to compete with the likes of UK, Kansas, Duke, etc....etc...


Only reason UC ended up with Stephenson was because everyone thought he was ineligible and backed off. He had high major offers from Kansas, Duke, etc...and they all backed off because they were sure he wouldn't be able to play.

Honestly, I think one of the best sells to a mid-rated kid can be: Hey, yeah, we're only in the AAC, but that means you can come in, dominate the league, and we're always going to make the NCAA's (ok, not always, but you get it) and play on the major stage every year. That's where you make your name: NCAA's. Play well there, and your stock rises. Add that to dominating a league (even the AAC) and you can see where it becomes a viable option. These kids know they can play and get time at UC. At Kansas or Duke they are 3rd or 4th off the bench, at best.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Another interesting tidbit....Don't know that XU ever had adidas, but Miller and the assistant at Arizona who was arrested, worked together at XU. I wonder if anything like this could have happened there under his watch. Especially since it doesn't really seem limited to just adidas. In the FBI affidavit, University 6 was rumored to be setting up a payment of $150K to another kid because that was "What another rival shoe company was offering to sign with another school".

 

[Cincyfan78]

Williams and Diarra should come in right away and contribute. Jennifer has his flaws but he's pretty useful defensively.



Yup. The offense has continuing trending up, which has been the programs Achilles heel for like... Forever.

But defensive always has to come first.



Cronin is as straight as an arrow. I remember he contemplating kicking Yancy freakin Gates off the team for that Xavier fight. No way he'll ever get caught up in shenanigans like this. There's no place for that at UC.

Really high on Williams and Trevor Moore. Word out of the early practices is that he's probably the best long-range shooter Mick as gotten while at UC. If you can get a kid off the bench who can defend and get to the rim in Williams, and also get a kid who can be a bit of instant offense in Moore...that can go a long way.

Another big key will be Clark being healthy. Apparently he was only about 70% most of last season as the ankle injury he sustained in his Soph. season lingered into last year. Finally got it cleaned out, and he said it's as if he never hurt it. So, hopefully that continues.

 

[Ickey Shuffle]

Only reason UC ended up with Stephenson was because everyone thought he was ineligible and backed off. He had high major offers from Kansas, Duke, etc...and they all backed off because they were sure he wouldn't be able to play.

It helped that he had some really severe character flaws too lol.

Really high on Williams and Trevor Moore. Word out of the early practices is that he's probably the best long-range shooter Mick as gotten while at UC. If you can get a kid off the bench who can defend and get to the rim in Williams, and also get a kid who can be a bit of instant offense in Moore...that can go a long way.

Another big key will be Clark being healthy. Apparently he was only about 70% most of last season as the ankle injury he sustained in his Soph. season lingered into last year. Finally got it cleaned out, and he said it's as if he never hurt it. So, hopefully that continues.

Yeah I heard Mick said Moore was already our best shooter last year, but just wasn't here yet.

Clark was still dominating with that ailment. Kid's a straight up animal. He's our most important player. If something were to happen to him, kiss our dreams goodbye.

Kyle Washington really needs to step up defensively this year.

 

[cincygrad]

Let's face it, Mick is straight, by all accounts. However.....Even if he weren't, UC doesn't have that kind of coin. Not to compete with the likes of UK, Kansas, Duke, etc....etc...


Only reason UC ended up with Stephenson was because everyone thought he was ineligible and backed off. He had high major offers from Kansas, Duke, etc...and they all backed off because they were sure he wouldn't be able to play.

Honestly, I think one of the best sells to a mid-rated kid can be: Hey, yeah, we're only in the AAC, but that means you can come in, dominate the league, and we're always going to make the NCAA's (ok, not always, but you get it) and play on the major stage every year. That's where you make your name: NCAA's. Play well there, and your stock rises. Add that to dominating a league (even the AAC) and you can see where it becomes a viable option. These kids know they can play and get time at UC. At Kansas or Duke they are 3rd or 4th off the bench, at best.

Again, I want to be careful here, because I'm a big Bearcat fan and I'm a big Mick fan. The program is in incredible shape even against all odds given the conference issues. That's a minor miracle in my opinion.

But if we ever did get in trouble, it wouldn't be UC's coin.... It would be a shoe company, or a rich booster, or a rogue assistant coach. Same thing that sinks these other programs. The problem isn't necessarily unique to any one school - It's a problem that occurs because basketball is a big business masquerading as an amateur competition. Pitino himself had some haunting quotes about how shoe contracts were impacting recruiting. As long as coaches and programs continue to be able to make money at the expense of the athletes, this kind of shit is going to be likely.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Again, I want to be careful here, because I'm a big Bearcat fan and I'm a big Mick fan. The program is in incredible shape even against all odds given the conference issues. That's a minor miracle in my opinion.

But if we ever did get in trouble, it wouldn't be UC's coin.... It would be a shoe company, or a rich booster, or a rogue assistant coach. Same thing that sinks these other programs. The problem isn't necessarily unique to any one school - It's a problem that occurs because basketball is a big business masquerading as an amateur competition. Pitino himself had some haunting quotes about how shoe contracts were impacting recruiting. As long as coaches and programs continue to be able to make money at the expense of the athletes, this kind of shit is going to be likely.

Still, the minor schools are not going to be paying for these kids. These kids are top 25 in the country. There's only a few schools in the country who are, realistically, able to land these kids from the start. When you are offered 100K from Duke or 100K from UC...you're going to Duke. Not only that, companies are going to pour more money into those top 5-8 schools to land those guys, because down the line, they are going to recoup that money on the back end quickly.

UC simply isn't in position to do this. Not saying it can't happen, because it can. Just stating that it's highly unlikely.

 

[cincygrad]

Still, the minor schools are not going to be paying for these kids. These kids are top 25 in the country. There's only a few schools in the country who are, realistically, able to land these kids from the start. When you are offered 100K from Duke or 100K from UC...you're going to Duke. Not only that, companies are going to pour more money into those top 5-8 schools to land those guys, because down the line, they are going to recoup that money on the back end quickly.

UC simply isn't in position to do this. Not saying it can't happen, because it can. Just stating that it's highly unlikely.

It's not schools paying for kids. It's coaches swinging deals with shoe companies and financial advisors to get bribe money and to pass money off to kids. One of the main programs in the complaint is Auburn - Hardly a traditional basketball power. This isn't about the old payoff to play for a program....This has more to do with people trying to pay players now for relationships in the future. Wherever you can find a pro prospect there will be potential for fraud.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's not schools paying for kids. It's coaches swinging deals with shoe companies and financial advisors to get bribe money and to pass money off to kids. One of the main programs in the complaint is Auburn - Hardly a traditional basketball power. This isn't about the old payoff to play for a program....This has more to do with people trying to pay players now for relationships in the future. Wherever you can find a pro prospect there will be potential for fraud.

And this was kind of my point. UC doesn't get these kind of players. I was listening to a podcast, and one of the guys talked about how this has been going on for a long time. However, most of the kids who are getting paid to play (either the old way with a bag under the bridge, or in the locker, or the new way through Adidas or whoever) are top 25 kids who are going to the NBA without a doubt. This isn't to say that there aren't small timers getting something on the side, I'm sure that happens too. But to get this kind of cash through a company/investors, you have to have a sure fire path to the NBA. Excluding Lance....name the last kid who committed to UC as a incoming Freshman that you can say, without a doubt, was going to the NBA.

My bet is it's Dermar Johnson.