POLL One view about the Playoffs

[WizardHawk]

I'm really not fond of any P5 team playing any FCS level opponent for a number of reasons. G5's that want to play them, sure.

While I miss the days when conferences were small enough to play every team every year and still have OOC games, as long as you don't do auto bids having entirely unbalanced schedules isn't a deal breaker for a 4 team playoff, but does create a lot of the drama with the fans.

Honestly I'm sure the people who created this system LOVE everyone sitting around bitching endlessly about their decisions. At least they are talking about it. Being ignored is what they fear.

 

[Gator]

I'm really not fond of any P5 team playing any FCS level opponent for a number of reasons. G5's that want to play them, sure.

While I miss the days when conferences were small enough to play every team every year and still have OOC games, as long as you don't do auto bids having entirely unbalanced schedules isn't a deal breaker for a 4 team playoff, but does create a lot of the drama with the fans.

Honestly I'm sure the people who created this system LOVE everyone sitting around bitching endlessly about their decisions. At least they are talking about it. Being ignored is what they fear.

The FCS vs P5 games are money makers for the FCS and for P5. The one way game means more home games and more $. 100K seats time $40 per ticket is $4M. The home team keeps $3M and the FCS gets $1M. One of the articles said the yearly travel budget for FCS schools is only 150K! They can payoff the travel and clear $850K. The payout to FCS schools from the CFP is only $270.4K for EACH CONFERENCE. So $1M for each school is HUGE.

The CFP was created to find the "best" 4 teams. Yes, they said conference champs get extra consideration as does strength of schedule and W/L record. But a conference championship is NOT required. I think what people want is an auto-pay check not an auto bid!

Finally, I agree, the more "drama" the more money!

 

[WizardHawk]

Oh I know FCS teams profit from it, but we also never had issues finding G5 teams to do that road trip to fill in the 7th every year before everyone switched it out to FCS and those G5's can still use that money as well. It's not a trivial thing to me because FCS are even smaller schools than G5's, and have much more drastic scholarship restrictions and other disadvantages that make it way too unfair IMO.

 

[smilesid]

Oh I know FCS teams profit from it, but we also never had issues finding G5 teams to do that road trip to fill in the 7th every year before everyone switched it out to FCS and those G5's can still use that money as well. It's not a trivial thing to me because FCS are even smaller schools than G5's, and have much more drastic scholarship restrictions and other disadvantages that make it way too unfair IMO.

I think the logic is flawed in this whole guarantee game being a "good deal for both parties" argument.

First, the P5 team has the overwhelming odds of winning. They are hiring a team from a lower division. Let's use Alabama for an example. They hire an FCS team every year. They play in a lower division, have fewer scholarships, lower rated recruits, less money, come into an unfamiliar setting, hostile crowd, generally travel on the cheap, and a dozen more things that make them huge underdogs. And the FBS teams usually aren't top ones. Fresno St. only won a single conference game the year they signed the contract to come to Alabama. Colorado St. was a "favor" given to an old coach, but they were a middling Mountain West team as well when the deal was made.

So, let's call it what it is. Every single school that does a guarantee game is hiring a hooker. Even if these P5 schools only booked top lower end teams, the fact that they were coming in at a huge disadvantage in the side factors would make any win a big, big upset. Indeed, the handful of games that are wins for the underdogs get a big billing on the sports shows.

Now look at what happens to the lower end school. Those players aren't stupid. They know that they are big underdogs. A single game? They'll give their best, hoping against hope that they might be that one team in a hundred. But when they have to do these games routinely, once or twice every single year? They get the message, their university bigwigs don't respect them, but are simply pimping them for a check.

Funny thing, people learn to act as they are expected. If you are expected to lose, and you lose, pretty soon, yup, you are a loser.

I agree with the Wiz, it's not good for the sport to allow teams to book 3 such games a year. If you want to do a home and home or a neutral site game with these schools, great! But just to hire them with no return trip, I say outlaw them or limit them to one per year per P5 team.

 

[WizardHawk]

Um, I didn't say outlaw one way games at all. If you want 7 home games every year on a 12 game schedule and have a 9 game conf schedule you likely will have to find some willing to only come to you as a one off.

I simply say at least make it with a team that might not be good, and might not have anything close to the talent and resources, but at least has the same amount of scholarships and have signed up for life at the FBS level so they know what they are in for.

There is still talent in FCS and some of those FCS teams can beat some FBS teams, but the disadvantages are glaring and it really is taking advantage of their poverty to schedule them. There are plenty of shitty FBS teams to fill that role.

P5's should stick to FBS only. G5's should be allowed to play FCS. Nothing in that says P5's should do 1 off games with shitty FBS teams. That's not going away.

 

[Deep Creek]

There are plenty of shitty FBS teams to fill that role.

 

[smilesid]

Um, I didn't say outlaw one way games at all. If you want 7 home games every year on a 12 game schedule and have a 9 game conf schedule you likely will have to find some willing to only come to you as a one off.

I simply say at least make it with a team that might not be good, and might not have anything close to the talent and resources, but at least has the same amount of scholarships and have signed up for life at the FBS level so they know what they are in for.

There is still talent in FCS and some of those FCS teams can beat some FBS teams, but the disadvantages are glaring and it really is taking advantage of their poverty to schedule them. There are plenty of shitty FBS teams to fill that role.

P5's should stick to FBS only. G5's should be allowed to play FCS. Nothing in that says P5's should do 1 off games with shitty FBS teams. That's not going away.

The real issue is the math. Honest scheduling means that every team gets the same number of home and away games 6 and 6. But everyone wants 7 home games. That doesn't work, you have to hire a victim or some team with such poor home attendance that they'll take the match. The 9 game conference schedule is also an issue, but in my view a minor one.

This is yet another example where money trumps the most basic principle of sport, games should be set up to give both teams an honest shot. You'd never set up conference games that way.

I'm not so naive to think that the major schools would show any interest in changing this practice, but at least folks should admit that fair competition is NOT the reason that these games are scheduled. They are to artificially pad the records of the big schools and increase revenue.

 

[WizardHawk]

The real issue is the math. Honest scheduling means that every team gets the same number of home and away games 6 and 6. But everyone wants 7 home games. That doesn't work, you have to hire a victim or some team with such poor home attendance that they'll take the match. The 9 game conference schedule is also an issue, but in my view a minor one.

This is yet another example where money trumps the most basic principle of sport, games should be set up to give both teams an honest shot. You'd never set up conference games that way.

I'm not so naive to think that the major schools would show any interest in changing this practice, but at least folks should admit that fair competition is NOT the reason that these games are scheduled. They are to artificially pad the records of the big schools and increase revenue.

Who ever claimed anything about fair competition or really cares? Schools want to sell season ticket packages. They can charge more for 7 game packages than 6. When we are talking about 60-100k seat stadiums and everything that goes with it that extra game isn't a small addition. That money adds to their bottom line, but they also pay quite well as you well know. Those lower schools make up substantial parts of their budget.

Both sides know full well what's going on. Both need it. Sometimes that lower team catches lightning in a bottle and wins that game, but mostly they get blown up.

Of course most season ticket holders aren't fond of paying for crap games, or at least I'm not. Would I prefer nothing but high level games? Well no shit. But it's not going to happen. Since everyone does it, everyone can get away with it.

 

[smilesid]

Who ever claimed anything about fair competition or really cares? Schools want to sell season ticket packages. They can charge more for 7 game packages than 6. When we are talking about 60-100k seat stadiums and everything that goes with it that extra game isn't a small addition. That money adds to their bottom line, but they also pay quite well as you well know. Those lower schools make up substantial parts of their budget.

Both sides know full well what's going on. Both need it. Sometimes that lower team catches lightning in a bottle and wins that game, but mostly they get blown up.

Of course most season ticket holders aren't fond of paying for crap games, or at least I'm not. Would I prefer nothing but high level games? Well no shit. But it's not going to happen. Since everyone does it, everyone can get away with it.

The opening line says a lot. It's how most homers think. Oh course they throw a half million or maybe even a million if it's a high end hooker. That's supposed to "support" their program. They big schools won't travel unless they must, so I like your idea of the smaller schools refusing to take those deals. If nothing else, it would force the bigs to up the price for that Saturday night "date" or, gasp, maybe go out and actually agree to go on the road.

But let's take the deal from the view of the smaller school. First, if you get a million for the game, you deduct travel, and maybe clear $800k. First, all the pundits use the "they didn't play anyone" excuse to not grant a slot in the playoffs to any G5 school that hasn't played all p5 schools for its nonconference slots. Again, the math fails. If your school wants 7 home games, someone else is going to have to take 5. They are required to have a minimum of 5 home games, everyone wants at least 7. So in turn, the G5s have to bring in even lower ranked schools to play them at home. No one figures out that the math is impossible.

Now, let's look at the value of an extra home game for the G5 team. 20,000 fans at $50 a pop is a cool million right there. Throw in parking, a few thousand visitors coming in, parking, hotels, restaurants, etc, that's a big boost to the community. Maybe the big schools bring enough fans to sell out the stadium and allow the price to go up, like when Oregon came to Boise, the tickets were $25 more than the regular price, and 37,000 showed up, they even brought in extra temporary seats to boost capacity a thousand. Now that million dollar home game becomes a $2.75 million dollar game, and when Boise wins it, their t-shirt sales, season ticket sales, booster club memberships, donations, and news media attention goes through the roof.

Win 3 or 4 such games, all of a sudden how your team is viewed goes way up. You make the top 25 rankings on a routine basis, the TV contracts become more generous.

The big school, I guess, don't realize that other schools have programs to support as well. But no one ever thinks about such things, when all they see is throwing out a few bucks for cheap entertainment.

 

[WizardHawk]

Smiles, you have been selling the same shit for at least a decade and none of it has borne any fruit. Doesn't that tell you something?

You are a small market homer trying to tell everyone else it's them that are wrong and calling them homers. You have a clear agenda and one that not even the schools you profess to champion necessarily agree with. You've convinced yourself the world is evil and hell bent on keeping the little guy down. The reality is they don't give the little guy much of a thought at all. That's really a big difference.

You can keep banging the same drum until your fingers bleed, but it's not going to change and there is nothing in what you seek that would even work. The idea of a fair and level playing field simply isn't possible. You would have to have parity and as long as kids are allowed to pick their own schools that is entirely impossible.

Mid majors MUST break off and become their own division to give you what you want. There is NO other solution that comes close to your ideal utopia. And doing so would undoubtedly reduce the overall money that comes into that division. Some schools would likely have to drop football altogether just so you can find some greater path to glory by getting trophies for YOUR school. I have no doubt at all your selfish needs would gladly take that exchange.

Right now the system we have redistributes money to the G5's. Whether or not any G5 team makes the big bowls the CFP fund gives monies directly to ALL of the 10 conferences in the FBS and EVERY independent school. Every single school gets something as long as their APR isn't below the cutoff.

You can keep kicking the very people that make it possible for small market teams to even exist and bite the very hand that feeds you, but change isn't coming so it's just pissing into the wind.

 

[Deep Creek]

Sometimes that lower team catches lightning in a bottle and wins that game, but mostly they get blown up.

As proof, I provide my Miners. We are the absolute best at getting "blown up". As long as you pay us well, you can fuck us til the cows come home. Sometimes we are even willing to take a two peckered gang bang!

2017 - Oklahoma 56-7, Arizona 63-16
2016 - Texas 41-7
2015 - Arkansas 48-13
2014 - Kansas State 58-28
2013 - Texas A&M 57-7
2012 - Wisconsin 37-26 (Just a littl pop, not a blow up)
2011 - Nobody wanted to fork over any dough
2010 - Arkansas 58-21
2009 - Texas 64-7

 

[WizardHawk]

As proof, I provide my Miners. We are the absolute best at getting "blown up". As long as you pay us well, you can fuck us til the cows come home. Sometimes we are even willing to take a two peckered gang bang!

2017 - Oklahoma 56-7, Arizona 63-16
2016 - Texas 41-7
2015 - Arkansas 48-13
2014 - Kansas State 58-28
2013 - Texas A&M 57-7
2012 - Wisconsin 37-26 (Just a littl pop, not a blow up)
2011 - Nobody wanted to fork over any dough
2010 - Arkansas 58-21
2009 - Texas 64-7

The real question for you is do you share some/most of the views that Smiles upchucks on boards? His entire agenda is purely about Boise State having a much better shot at reaching a playoff/title shot and this notion of 'fair play' is all nonsense toward that goal.

Do you want to see the whole system blown up so the highest functioning G5 teams get one seat at the table each year and sacrifice the income you have under the current system to support it?

 

[Deep Creek]

The real question for you is do you share some/most of the views that Smiles upchucks on boards? His entire agenda is purely about Boise State having a much better shot at reaching a playoff/title shot and this notion of 'fair play' is all nonsense toward that goal.

Do you want to see the whole system blown up so the highest functioning G5 teams get one seat at the table each year and sacrifice the income you have under the current system to support it?

The change I prefer is a separate G5 playoff. If a G5 is good enough to get into the CFP some year, then they can skip the G5 one and tee it up with the big boys. Let the rest of 'em play it off instead of going to the New Mexico Bowl. And, I'd prefer they play it at one of the schools instead of a neutral site...at least until the final.

Let's be realistic, even with a so called "fair" or "level" playing field, even the bottom half of the P5 teams will never make it into the playoffs unless something wacky occurs. The bottom P5 schools are no more that wealthy, glorified G5s the blue bloods are willing to put up with because they need 'em.

I don't think anything will change until the fans at the big boys send a message to their ADs that they ain't putting up with paying good money to watch slaughters and crap games. So far, they don't seem to mind spending their money on what I consider a bunch of shit. I'd rather sit at home and watch some good games on TV instead of those crappy things.

 

[WizardHawk]

I think a G5 playoff makes a lot of sense. Just not sure if it is financially viable considering if they are not going to the existing bowls they probably also would be dropped out of the profit sharing from them and it's not chump change.