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oh no not a 4th

Sharkinva

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I think sympathy for pain killers is different than sympathy for meth, or even alcohol.


At the risk of starting one of those debates.

The only difference between some one addicted to prescription drugs, and some one addicted to Alcohol or "illegal" drugs, is the whole doctor aspect. Most people addicted to alcohol got that way because they were trying to deal with some kind of pain, they just didnt get their pain killer of choice from a doctor, they got it from the bar tender or the 7-11. But whats the real difference in taking too many Tylenol 3 because you have been dealing with chronic back pain from football, and taking too many Vodka Shots because you have been dealing with chronic life is fucked up pain??
 

gkekoa

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At the risk of starting one of those debates.

The only difference between some one addicted to prescription drugs, and some one addicted to Alcohol or "illegal" drugs, is the whole doctor aspect. Most people addicted to alcohol got that way because they were trying to deal with some kind of pain, they just didnt get their pain killer of choice from a doctor, they got it from the bar tender or the 7-11. But whats the real difference in taking too many Tylenol 3 because you have been dealing with chronic back pain from football, and taking too many Vodka Shots because you have been dealing with chronic life is fucked up pain??

Most people who are addicted to alcohol started drinking because of peer pressure. The doctor aspect is fairly large. I have never heard of a doctor prescribing alcohol.

Again, for me, it is about how you started.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Take away the billionaire owners football team, he is still a billionaire. Not one of them made their money as a football owner.

Take away a football player's career, and they become us, if they are lucky. Players have no discernible talents outside the sport as a whole.

What Every NFL Owner Paid For Their Team — And What It's Worth Today

While true in many cases this is not true across the board. Scroll through the link above, and I think that you may be surprised. 13 NFL teams were bought for $15M or less. 9 were bought for under $200k, and 3 for $500 or less. Several of these were by owners who pretty much amassed their entire fortune via football (Steelers, Giants, Bears, Raiders, etc). You have to remember that many teams were purchased ages ago when the NFL was not that popular & the price was cheap. You appear to be referring more to the current day owner (even there you have to remember that all owners don't own 100% of the team & usually have outside financing).

Several owners still amass most of their fortune via the NFL. This is why in several cases the descendants have to sell their team when the original owner dies since the huge inheritance tax does not allow them to retain a team (since they don't make much via other businesses). Still owners would likely survive if the league started to crumble (since the are usually older, the decline would be gradual & would be in the very distant future & they would have time to purchase other assets).

If your statement were true then the Raiders would not have needed outside financing to move to Vegas. However - they did since Mark Davis is pretty much cash poor & his entire fortune is almost strictly attached to the Raiders.
 

SoCalWizFan

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I think sympathy for pain killers is different than sympathy for meth, or even alcohol.

Really? So I guess we should have more sympathy for Tiger Woods since he put himself & others in danger while operating his car under the influence of prescription drugs rather than alcohol (he blew a .00 on his breath test but was obviously under the influence of the prescription drugs). His mug shots, related video & condition of his vehicle show that he was in absolutely no condition to drive (putting aside anyone's opinion on Tiger).

Cmon - Oxycontin is no more noble or deserves no more sympathy than alcohol or other drugs. Both are related to other issues & deserve both a certain amt of sympathy as well as scorn in certain cases. Limbaugh was supposedly taking well over the recommended dosages which is very irresponsible. Not trying to preach - just trying to clarify.
 

gkekoa

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Really? So I guess we should have more sympathy for Tiger Woods since he put himself & others in danger while operating his car under the influence of prescription drugs rather than alcohol (he blew a .00 on his breath test but was obviously under the influence of the prescription drugs). His mug shots, related video & condition of his vehicle show that he was in absolutely no condition to drive (putting aside anyone's opinion on Tiger).

Cmon - Oxycontin is no more noble or deserves no more sympathy than alcohol or other drugs. Both are related to other issues & deserve both a certain amt of sympathy as well as scorn in certain cases. Limbaugh was supposedly taking well over the recommended dosages which is very irresponsible. Not trying to preach - just trying to clarify.

Is that what I said? I said I have more sympathy for the addiction, not necessarily the acts that accompany them.

Now, if Tiger was not aware of his impairment, then yes, I would sympathize, unlike a DWI.
 

gkekoa

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What Every NFL Owner Paid For Their Team — And What It's Worth Today

While true in many cases this is not true across the board. Scroll through the link above, and I think that you may be surprised. 13 NFL teams were bought for $15M or less. 9 were bought for under $200k, and 3 for $500 or less. Several of these were by owners who pretty much amassed their entire fortune via football (Steelers, Giants, Bears, Raiders, etc). You have to remember that many teams were purchased ages ago when the NFL was not that popular & the price was cheap. You appear to be referring more to the current day owner (even there you have to remember that all owners don't own 100% of the team & usually have outside financing).

Several owners still amass most of their fortune via the NFL. This is why in several cases the descendants have to sell their team when the original owner dies since the huge inheritance tax does not allow them to retain a team (since they don't make much via other businesses). Still owners would likely survive if the league started to crumble (since the are usually older, the decline would be gradual & would be in the very distant future & they would have time to purchase other assets).

If your statement were true then the Raiders would not have needed outside financing to move to Vegas. However - they did since Mark Davis is pretty much cash poor & his entire fortune is almost strictly attached to the Raiders.

Fair enough but did any of them make their fortune from football or were they already loaded? Many of these owners are the ones who made football the game it is today. It wasn't actually the players that did it.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Fair enough but did any of them make their fortune from football or were they already loaded? Many of these owners are the ones who made football the game it is today. It wasn't actually the players that did it.

Yes - that is what I was pointing out with this info. George Halas was just a struggling football player/coach who was in the rt place @ the rt time. Pretty much ditto for the Rooneys. Al Davis didn't come from money. He worked his way up as a coach/GM & commissioner in the fledgling AFL & was fortunate that things evolved to their current status. All of these guys made their money primarily via the NFL (& yes several are pioneers who helped make the game what it is today).

Again - they are in the minority & their kids/grandkids will survive regardless. No big deal - just pointing out that some folks indeed did make most/all of their money via the NFL - good for them. I would also give credit to several players since they are the actual product - I would not dismiss them completely. Someone like Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Lawrence Taylor or Jim Brown certainly added/adds value to their franchise & helps build the credibility of the NFL.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Is that what I said? I said I have more sympathy for the addiction, not necessarily the acts that accompany them.

Now, if Tiger was not aware of his impairment, then yes, I would sympathize, unlike a DWI.

Given that Tiger had been taking these type of medications for ages & is an athlete who is very aware of his body then I see no way that he was not aware especially when you see the video of how he acted & the related condition of his SUV. I have to say that I really have a hard time w/ his friends or associates not stopping him from driving that day (jeez ever heard of UBER or I don't know hiring a driver given that you are a billionaire).

Anyhow - just trying to emphasize that people need to stop making prescription drugs sound so acceptable compared to illegal drugs or alcohol. They cause almost as many deaths and other problems in this country (go look it up). As long as you understand that then sure - I understand your pt - just don't want people think that it is fine to abuse these drugs & (as shown by Tiger) they can also cause issues in other areas such as car accidents.
 

Niner Outlaw

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The safety thing can happen. There is zero chance the NFL goes under because of a strike.
I agree. Imo, if the NFL ever dies, it'll be in a court room, not a picket line.
 

gkekoa

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Given that Tiger had been taking these type of medications for ages & is an athlete who is very aware of his body then I see no way that he was not aware especially when you see the video of how he acted & the related condition of his SUV. I have to say that I really have a hard time w/ his friends or associates not stopping him from driving that day (jeez ever heard of UBER or I don't know hiring a driver given that you are a billionaire).

Anyhow - just trying to emphasize that people need to stop making prescription drugs sound so acceptable compared to illegal drugs or alcohol. They cause almost as many deaths and other problems in this country (go look it up). As long as you understand that then sure - I understand your pt - just don't want people think that it is fine to abuse these drugs & (as shown by Tiger) they can also cause issues in other areas such as car accidents.

Like I said, if he was unaware of his current state, there is sympathy. If he was aware, no sympathy.

I am strictly speaking of causation. Nobody is forced to take illegal drugs.

I don't worry about deaths. They don't really bother me.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Like I said, if he was unaware of his current state, there is sympathy. If he was aware, no sympathy.

I am strictly speaking of causation. Nobody is forced to take illegal drugs.

I don't worry about deaths. They don't really bother me.

NP - basically agree to disagree. You are correct about not being forced to drink or take illegal drugs. However - in a similar way - nobody is forced to abuse prescription drugs by doing things like going well over the recommended dosage, mixing them w/ alcohol or driving a vehicle under their influence & these type of things unfortunately happen all of the time. Like I said - I have equal parts sympathy & scorn for all types of substance abusers.
 

gkekoa

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NP - basically agree to disagree. You are correct about not being forced to drink or take illegal drugs. However - in a similar way - nobody is forced to abuse prescription drugs by doing things like going well over the recommended dosage, mixing them w/ alcohol or driving a vehicle under their influence & these type of things unfortunately happen all of the time. Like I said - I have equal parts sympathy & scorn for all types of substance abusers.

Going over the dosage before the addiction is different.

Mixing them with alcohol is different.

Driving a vehicle while taking medication is not illegal. If you do not know how badly you have been affected, there is no intent. If you know you are fucked up and get behind the wheel, we should drop the hammer.
 

SoCalWizFan

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Going over the dosage before the addiction is different.

Mixing them with alcohol is different.

Driving a vehicle while taking medication is not illegal. If you do not know how badly you have been affected, there is no intent. If you know you are fucked up and get behind the wheel, we should drop the hammer.

You are incorrect with your last statement - this is exactly what recently happened w/ Tiger. It is not simply Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol - other substances are also subject to arrest. Just not knowing how you are affected is no excuse nor reason to drop the charges. There are tons of warnings for these drugs both on the label & by the doctors who prescribe these drugs & the effects can be as bad as alcohol. Intent is not a prerequisite for a DUI. Like they say - ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. BTW - probably no different than too many drinks - you pretty much know that you should not be driving or at least feel a little suspect.

Both of your first two statements would be labeled as abuse of the drug. This is not different than alcohol abuse. Alcohol on its own in this case is not the problem. The problem is having too many drinks or getting behind the wheel after too many drinks. Just like the drugs - it is a matter of going against warnings & abusing the drug and situation.
 

gkekoa

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You are incorrect with your last statement - this is exactly what recently happened w/ Tiger. It is not simply Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol - other substances are also subject to arrest. Just not knowing how you are affected is no excuse nor reason to drop the charges. There are tons of warnings for these drugs both on the label & by the doctors who prescribe these drugs & the effects can be as bad as alcohol. Intent is not a prerequisite for a DUI. Like they say - ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. BTW - probably no different than too many drinks - you pretty much know that you should not be driving or at least feel a little suspect.

Both of your first two statements would be labeled as abuse of the drug. This is not different than alcohol abuse. Alcohol on its own in this case is not the problem. The problem is having too many drinks or getting behind the wheel after too many drinks. Just like the drugs - it is a matter of going against warnings & abusing the drug and situation.

How does it make me incorrect? I never spoke of the law. We are talking about my personal beliefs.

Alcohol is a problem because of its highly addictive nature. I am not saying people shouldn't be allowed to drink. I am saying I have no sympathy for people who become addicted to it because it serves no purpose. When you become addicted to something prescribed by a doctor, I have sympathy.

Apparently, ignorance is an excuse because Comey stated that is why Hillary wasn't charged.
 

Sharkinva

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How does it make me incorrect? I never spoke of the law. We are talking about my personal beliefs.

Alcohol is a problem because of its highly addictive nature. I am not saying people shouldn't be allowed to drink. I am saying I have no sympathy for people who become addicted to it because it serves no purpose. When you become addicted to something prescribed by a doctor, I have sympathy.

Apparently, ignorance is an excuse because Comey stated that is why Hillary wasn't charged.


Most substance addictions are caused not by the substance itself, but some other external cause and the substance (Be it drugs, Alcohol, Food, Smoking, sex) becomes a coping device for the real underlying problem. Now yes, there is a degree or level of choice in any addiction, but one is no more noble than the other. Just because a doctor said, here take these and you got addicted, that makes it no more worthy of sympathy than a guy going into a bar and the bar tender saying... you look like you had a shitty day. Here is a vodka shooter to help take the edge off.
 

gkekoa

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Most substance addictions are caused not by the substance itself, but some other external cause and the substance (Be it drugs, Alcohol, Food, Smoking, sex) becomes a coping device for the real underlying problem. Now yes, there is a degree or level of choice in any addiction, but one is no more noble than the other. Just because a doctor said, here take these and you got addicted, that makes it no more worthy of sympathy than a guy going into a bar and the bar tender saying... you look like you had a shitty day. Here is a vodka shooter to help take the edge off.

Again, I will disagree.

You have to put food in your body.

You have to have sex when you are married.

Those are biological imperatives.


Medicine is supposed to be safe, especially when prescribed.


Nobody forces alcohol into your body. You do not die without alcohol.
 

Sharkinva

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Again, I will disagree.

You have to put food in your body.

You have to have sex when you are married.

Those are biological imperatives.


Medicine is supposed to be safe, especially when prescribed.


Nobody forces alcohol into your body. You do not die without alcohol.


Again I think you are confusing the symptom (Addiction) with the problem (what ever it is some one is trying to cope with).

I agree you have to eat to survive. But over eating on a consistent basis is an addiction, and likely a coping device for some other issue.

Sex is no more imperative than is chocolate. But people who find that they have to have sex, to the point where they engage in dangerous sexual behaviors are likely once again coping for some other issue.

Look if some ones life was so awesome that they have never taken a drink, or smoked weed, or any other sort of indulgence as a coping mechanism, thats great.. for them. But in the real world, addiction is a symptom of trying to cope with some other underlying issue. An addict never recovers, they just replace one addiction with another in most cases.
 

gkekoa

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Again I think you are confusing the symptom (Addiction) with the problem (what ever it is some one is trying to cope with).

I agree you have to eat to survive. But over eating on a consistent basis is an addiction, and likely a coping device for some other issue.

Sex is no more imperative than is chocolate. But people who find that they have to have sex, to the point where they engage in dangerous sexual behaviors are likely once again coping for some other issue.

Look if some ones life was so awesome that they have never taken a drink, or smoked weed, or any other sort of indulgence as a coping mechanism, thats great.. for them. But in the real world, addiction is a symptom of trying to cope with some other underlying issue. An addict never recovers, they just replace one addiction with another in most cases.

Addiction is caused by chemical reactions within the body. A skinny person can become addicted to food. A person who has never tasted alcohol cannot become addicted to it.

Sex is a biological imperative. You will have sex at some point, especially if married.

Again, I am not saying people don't do stupid shit to cope. I am saying I have no sympathy for it.
 

skinsdad62

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lets not hi jack the thread over addiction . it is what it is , and i wish coach would stop with the rush limbaugh , obama liberal stuff on the football message board . sports SportsHoopla has a whole political sight you can talk that crap to your ass falls off
 

Ruzious

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I think sympathy for pain killers is different than sympathy for meth, or even alcohol.
I probably thought the same until a friend of mine had her oxy stolen by both her son and her husband. Edit - sorry, no more addiction talk.
 
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