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Toadman005

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Well... No...

Illegal immigrants living here actually commit crime less frequently than native born citizens.
Well...yes....

Even if that oft-parroted statistic (which is bullshit) were true, millions are still affected by illegals crime. I can cite four incidents, anecdotal though they may be, to my family alone. Regardless, such a "small percentage" of our population SHOULD commit less crime, even statistically given they're, yknow, fucking illegal. But often illegal time goes unreported and undocumented, and even if it wasn't it doesn't change the fact that ANY crime committed by a hirer jumper is one crime too many in a perfect world.
 

Sharkinva

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First...illegals are 4/100 of this country of the population.


Illegals that commit Crimes are less that 1/100th of the population. Oh wait I forget their mere existence is a crime in your book.

Who is ignoring gun violence? Do we not arrest those involved?


If we put half the effort and heart into preventing gun violence, that people want to put into preventing illegal immigration (read as all immigration from certain areas) America would be immensely more safe than trying to control population demographics.

If we have Americans committing crime, why would we import more people to do the same thing?


As has been shown time and again, Migrants of both types commit LESS crime than our home grown Americans. And in most cases communities with more migrants are less crime ridden.


It isn’t about safety for me...it is about sovereignty. Is it fair to those who follow the legal process of immigration to allow those who say fuck the system to stay? That is the only question you need to answer.

This country was built on a mentality of fuck it, we are going to take what we want. But i can see as to where it would get people all hot and bothered to think that the country might evolve into a place where the ruling class currently, is no longer in charge.
 

gkekoa

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Illegals that commit Crimes are less that 1/100th of the population. Oh wait I forget their mere existence is a crime in your book.

If we put half the effort and heart into preventing gun violence, that people want to put into preventing illegal immigration (read as all immigration from certain areas) America would be immensely more safe than trying to control population demographics.

As has been shown time and again, Migrants of both types commit LESS crime than our home grown Americans. And in most cases communities with more migrants are less crime ridden.

This country was built on a mentality of fuck it, we are going to take what we want. But i can see as to where it would get people all hot and bothered to think that the country might evolve into a place where the ruling class currently, is no longer in charge.

Their mere existence in the US is against federal law. This isn’t my book...this is the law.

If you want to improve gun violence, execute gang members...of all races. America would be immensely more safe. Where does the largest portion of illegal crossings in the US occur? I am for preventing all illegal immigration. I know when I go to work in Guyana, I go through customs and get my passport stamped, leaving the address I am staying and the business I have in Guyana. How hard would it be to create a database in the US with the same info and actually enforce their departures? I am all for E-verify. What do these have to do with race? As usual, you want to believe it is about race because you are a bit touchy.

So...again it is t about crime. It is about sovereignty.

This country was built on intelligence, hard work, and liberty. I know...slaves. Black men sold black men into slavery. They still do today. Nah...what bothers me is having people who believe failed policies of other nations will work here.

Oh...you still didn’t answer the only question that matters. Is it right or fair that some people thwart or immigration laws, while others do it correctly?
 

skinsdad62

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Like I M the only one who is a victim of illegal alien crime ? Fact is any crime committed by an illegal is a crime that should never happen . Citing what crimes Americans themselves commit is a deflection the open border crowd uses to justify open borders
 

redskin4209

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Their mere existence in the US is against federal law. This isn’t my book...this is the law.

This country was built on intelligence, hard work, and liberty. I know...slaves. Black men sold black men into slavery. They still do today. Nah...what bothers me is having people who believe failed policies of other nations will work here.


Okay question why did America take the lead so early in the New World. What was single reason for America advance. Remember now the US as a young colony wasn't highly thought of in Europe.
 

skinsdad62

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there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration but there are several factors involved in your question
 

gkekoa

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The reason America advanced so quickly is liberty and allowing the market to dictate advancement. If you want a singular event, look to Henry Ford.
 

Sharkinva

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Their mere existence in the US is against federal law. This isn’t my book...this is the law.


The Law is unjust and was designed and implemented to target a specific group of people from at its time a specific region of the world. I hold it in as much esteem as I do LAWS designed to stop and check any one that LOOKs as if they might not be American.


If you want to improve gun violence, execute gang members...of all races. America would be immensely more safe. Where does the largest portion of illegal crossings in the US occur? I am for preventing all illegal immigration. I know when I go to work in Guyana, I go through customs and get my passport stamped, leaving the address I am staying and the business I have in Guyana. How hard would it be to create a database in the US with the same info and actually enforce their departures? I am all for E-verify. What do these have to do with race? As usual, you want to believe it is about race because you are a bit touchy.

I agree those found guilty of gun violence, especially killing someone should be executed. But I wouldnt hold it to just gang members. But Im also a believer that practical gun control and tracking measures need to be enacted.

Oh...you still didn’t answer the only question that matters. Is it right or fair that some people thwart or immigration laws, while others do it correctly?


I dont think it bothers you so much that some people thwart the immigration laws. I think it bothers you who is thwarting it. The law does not get applied to all people equally. And thats my problem with it. Its not fair that someone trying to come here to make a better life needs to be on a 5-20 year waiting list, but you give a rich guy a hummer and you can find a six month loophole to not only legal entry, but citizenship. SO yea it bothers me that people game the system, but my ire isnt reserved for one group and ignored for another.
 

skinsdad62

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you do undertsand that immigration laws (particularly in 1924 ) targeted southern european whites dont you and were passed by progressives you now side with dont you ?

right now there is not one thing that our immigration laws target as far as race . race isnt mentioned in any one of them

my question is how many identity thefts do americans have to suffer through? murders / rapes ? assaults ? gang members , drug OD's ? what is the magic number ? how much of my tax dollars has to go to help them on the front end and then again on the back end ?

how many american homeless have to continue to suffer ? and for what ? so democrats have a voting base ? this is what this is about .

i have been promised virtually my whole life that immigration would be fixed and it has never happened

if walls dont work then why fight so hard to prevent it ? i have never seen a drone or camera physically stop one person from crossing a border , not one

yeah we got you on tape !!!!!!! yipppeeee !!!!

i want the wall , i want technology i want e verify and i want people to come here legally

i am tired of my fellow citizens die for the cause of a borderless one world socialist govt
 

gkekoa

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The Law is unjust and was designed and implemented to target a specific group of people from at its time a specific region of the world. I hold it in as much esteem as I do LAWS designed to stop and check any one that LOOKs as if they might not be American.

I agree those found guilty of gun violence, especially killing someone should be executed. But I wouldnt hold it to just gang members. But Im also a believer that practical gun control and tracking measures need to be enacted.

I dont think it bothers you so much that some people thwart the immigration laws. I think it bothers you who is thwarting it. The law does not get applied to all people equally. And thats my problem with it. Its not fair that someone trying to come here to make a better life needs to be on a 5-20 year waiting list, but you give a rich guy a hummer and you can find a six month loophole to not only legal entry, but citizenship. SO yea it bothers me that people game the system, but my ire isnt reserved for one group and ignored for another.

Was it? The laws weren’t designed to target a specific group of people. The laws were designed to control and have knowledge of who is in this country and to put Americans first. The laws do affect people south of the border more, simply because they have the easiest access to enter this country illegally. I am with you in regards to simply stopping somebody who looks like they may not be an American because there is no look. If you stop somebody for another reason, it is reasonable to check that person out and find out if they are in this country legally.

Who said to hold it to just gang members? That would be unjust. If you want to lower the gun violence rate...rid the world of gangs. That is a large portion of the gun violence you detest.
Putting Gun Death Statistics in Perspective
htt[URL="https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/here-are-8-stubborn-facts-gun-violence-america"]Here Are 8 Stubborn Facts on Gun Violence in Americaps://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/pages/welcome.aspx[/URL]

I know, I know...those sites are all racist. Your practical gun-control is used for one purpose...to disarm people deemed unfit to own a firearm...black people for instance (Jim Crow). For somebody who believes the system is racist, you want to give a whole lot of power to the very people controlling the racist system. No thanks...I will cling to my Bible, my guns, and my Constitutional RIGHTS.

Actually, you would be wrong. I want immigrants who are educated, law-abiding, who can take care of themselves, and not try to change this country into the country they fled. How is the applied unequally?

Why isn’t that fair? The rich guy with a hummer brings his money and resources to the US. That is good for Americans. Why isn’t a twenty year waiting list fair? Nobody has a RIGHT to enter this country if we do not want them here. We should absolutely be picky on who we let into this country and not base it on something as silly as luck (lottery).
 

Sharkinva

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OK so lets look at this another way.

Say you get the wall. And I expect, say it doesnt work and people still try and cross the border (either to sneak in or to request asylum).

So once it does not stem the tide.. whats the next logical step?? I have seen people call for Armed Troops on the border. Trump has even come out and said, he expects just that.

So where does the line draw?? Do we need a mine field like they have in Korea?? How about Machine Gun nests every 100 yards or so??

Im not ok with the look of the wall. And more importantly Im not ok with what the mentality behind it says. Because you can try and gloss it over all you want, but history and even current incidents show what "Americans" are capable of once they have deemed a particular group as the enemy. I see alot of similarity of how Latinos are being treated now to the way Blacks have historically been treated in this country. To me going backwards in an attempt to make some Americans feel safe, at the expense of other Americans doesnt work for me. The system does need to change and going back to the 1950 is not the positive change in my opinion.
 

skinsdad62

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OK so lets look at this another way.

Say you get the wall. And I expect, say it doesnt work and people still try and cross the border (either to sneak in or to request asylum).

So once it does not stem the tide.. whats the next logical step?? I have seen people call for Armed Troops on the border. Trump has even come out and said, he expects just that.

So where does the line draw?? Do we need a mine field like they have in Korea?? How about Machine Gun nests every 100 yards or so??

Im not ok with the look of the wall. And more importantly Im not ok with what the mentality behind it says. Because you can try and gloss it over all you want, but history and even current incidents show what "Americans" are capable of once they have deemed a particular group as the enemy. I see alot of similarity of how Latinos are being treated now to the way Blacks have historically been treated in this country. To me going backwards in an attempt to make some Americans feel safe, at the expense of other Americans doesnt work for me. The system does need to change and going back to the 1950 is not the positive change in my opinion.

well lets flip the script , what if it does work ? , there is no discrimination in legal immigration well over 50% of legal immigrants are of color

and who said that the 50's is some arbitrary starting point . ? MAGA can easily be the 80's
 

Sharkinva

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well lets flip the script , what if it does work ? , there is no discrimination in legal immigration well over 50% of legal immigrants are of color

and who said that the 50's is some arbitrary starting point . ? MAGA can easily be the 80's


If the wall does work, I expect it will just embolden those that have already started to show their ass in this country. And lets be real.. most of the Maga heads are against things like Gay rights, Immigration (from certain areas), so Im thinking the 80s would not be the optimal time frame in the minds of that particular mass.

Again you havent told me the next step. Because two things are known.

1. The Majority of our illegals at this point are Visa overstays from places other than south of the border.
2. Some people wont be content with stopping the tide from south of the border and the next step will be round up and deportation squads.
 

skinsdad62

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If the wall does work, I expect it will just embolden those that have already started to show their ass in this country. And lets be real.. most of the Maga heads are against things like Gay rights, Immigration (from certain areas), so Im thinking the 80s would not be the optimal time frame in the minds of that particular mass.

Again you havent told me the next step. Because two things are known.

1. The Majority of our illegals at this point are Visa overstays from places other than south of the border.
2. Some people wont be content with stopping the tide from south of the border and the next step will be round up and deportation squads.

the latest data i have seen is 49% of half . so why not address the half i can limit by a wall ? then pass e verify to address the other half ? then fine companies or put ceo's in jail who hire illegals ?
 

Sharkinva

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the latest data i have seen is 49% of half . so why not address the half i can limit by a wall ? then pass e verify to address the other half ? then fine companies or put ceo's in jail who hire illegals ?


That all sounds wonderful. But I think you know I dont trust the motives behind this push to curb illegal immigration. The fear mongering of they are coming to take our jobs, live off welfare and r*pe our women reeks of times of old in my book. To me it is, has and will likely remain more about preventing change that scares some. And I dont trust those elements to be content with stopping the immigration menace.
 

skinsdad62

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That all sounds wonderful. But I think you know I dont trust the motives behind this push to curb illegal immigration. The fear mongering of they are coming to take our jobs, live off welfare and r*pe our women reeks of times of old in my book. To me it is, has and will likely remain more about preventing change that scares some. And I dont trust those elements to be content with stopping the immigration menace.
You mean what is actullay happening as supported by data ? No one is scared of any demographic change shark . It’s really simple , come here , embrace our country and fo it legally
 

Sharkinva

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You mean what is actullay happening as supported by data ? No one is scared of any demographic change shark . It’s really simple , come here , embrace our country and fo it legally


Dont take it personal.. but the need for a 30 foot wall, and the insistence on being armed to the teeth screams fear to me.

I have never lost a job to an illegal immigrant.
I have been the subject of crimes committed by good old Americans when it has happened.


We both see change coming, Im just not to worried about where it will take us, unless it takes us backwards.
 

Sharkinva

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And this means what ? The dems did indeed vacation in PR


So we going with the old tried and true.. see what he meant was excuse right??

It has got to be draining to have to continually try and contextualize some of the blatantly racist shit the GOP has said and done over the past few years.
 
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