No Contract for Bell

[CrashDavisSports]

So if he doesn't resign with Pittsburgh in the offseason, which it is looking more and more like he won't, what team do you think can afford a RB that wants 15 plus million a year on a long term contract? He is a hell of a player and very dynamic, but he has had injury issues. He is at a very good age for a long term deal, but with his position, the injuries and the money he is asking for...is any RB worth that kind of cheddar, even a guy as talented as Bell?

Now, considering how much WR's are getting, Antonio Brown, AJ Green, Julio, etc. Bell really is not asking for anything outside what those guys are getting. Then you consider what HE as a RB does, where he runs for 1200+ yards a year and makes 70-80 catches a year for 600+ yards, while scoring 10 TD's. It sounds like a reasonable ask.

Now to plays devils advocate again, Pittsburgh is working that guy to death and he has injury issues concerns already. He is only 26, but is it worth throwing that much money at him? If Roethlisberger had retired and opened up that salary, I would have said yes, for sure. But with Roethlisberger and Brown having such massive contracts on the offensive side of the ball already, do you sink that much money into 3 players on your offense?

Roethlisberger's cap hit this year is 23.2 million, Brown is only at 8 million. However, next year when they go to resign Bell since it didn't work out now...Brown's salary cap hit explodes from 8 million to over 21 million dollars. So now you have a QB at 23 million, but your WR just ballooned to over 21 million, and you are looking to sign your RB to richest RB contract in the history of the NFL.

I can't see the Steelers being able to sign him. They say they will work on it, but unless they start restructuring the hell out of the lineup and start letting a few contributors go, they don't stand a chance at resigning Bell.

What team would have the cap, need and balls to sign a RB to that kind of contract?

Redskins? Dan Snyder has proven in the past he is willing to say F it and spend money like no other. Plus, this kind of reminds me of a Clinton Portis type situation.

Arizona Cardinals? Give Rosen a new weapon.

49ers? Lynch trying to rebuild this offense into a force to be reckoned with after getting Garappolo?

Not many AFC teams I really can see him going to, unless maybe Indy is willing to travel a different path and take a chance. Give Luck someone to take the pressure off him. However, that would require a rebuild of that line, and they started this year with drafting Quenton Nelson.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

So if he doesn't resign with Pittsburgh in the offseason, which it is looking more and more like he won't, what team do you think can afford a RB that wants 15 plus million a year on a long term contract? He is a hell of a player and very dynamic, but he has had injury issues. He is at a very good age for a long term deal, but with his position, the injuries and the money he is asking for...is any RB worth that kind of cheddar, even a guy as talented as Bell?

Now, considering how much WR's are getting, Antonio Brown, AJ Green, Julio, etc. Bell really is not asking for anything outside what those guys are getting. Then you consider what HE as a RB does, where he runs for 1200+ yards a year and makes 70-80 catches a year for 600+ yards, while scoring 10 TD's. It sounds like a reasonable ask.

Now to plays devils advocate again, Pittsburgh is working that guy to death and he has injury issues concerns already. He is only 26, but is it worth throwing that much money at him? If Roethlisberger had retired and opened up that salary, I would have said yes, for sure. But with Roethlisberger and Brown having such massive contracts on the offensive side of the ball already, do you sink that much money into 3 players on your offense?

Roethlisberger's cap hit this year is 23.2 million, Brown is only at 8 million. However, next year when they go to resign Bell since it didn't work out now...Brown's salary cap hit explodes from 8 million to over 21 million dollars. So now you have a QB at 23 million, but your WR just ballooned to over 21 million, and you are looking to sign your RB to richest RB contract in the history of the NFL.

I can't see the Steelers being able to sign him. They say they will work on it, but unless they start restructuring the hell out of the lineup and start letting a few contributors go, they don't stand a chance at resigning Bell.

What team would have the cap, need and balls to sign a RB to that kind of contract?

Redskins? Dan Snyder has proven in the past he is willing to say F it and spend money like no other. Plus, this kind of reminds me of a Clinton Portis type situation.

Arizona Cardinals? Give Rosen a new weapon.

49ers? Lynch trying to rebuild this offense into a force to be reckoned with after getting Garappolo?

Not many AFC teams I really can see him going to, unless maybe Indy is willing to travel a different path and take a chance. Give Luck someone to take the pressure off him. However, that would require a rebuild of that line, and they started this year with drafting Quenton Nelson.

The Steelers have made their pitch (reportedly $14 per /4 yrs, but not confirmed) so they are out unless his number comes down.

Bell will be 27 y/o closing in on 28 when the '19 season starts. Clearly he wants a multi-yr deal averaging something more than $14 mil per. That's still young enough to attract that kind of deal, but I don't see it being a legit contender. The teams you mentioned make some sense. DET has been mentioned.

The team I think needs to make something happen soon is TB...they need to sell tkts, they need a RB, and they have the cap space.

Brown's contract 4/68m/19m is very fair given his production...he's been restructured to create space which is why PIT could even pay the Tag price for Bell...essentially the balance of his deal has been guaranteed as a result.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

The Steelers have made their pitch (reportedly $14 per /4 yrs, but not confirmed) so they are out unless his number comes down.

Bell will be 27 y/o closing in on 28 when the '19 season starts. Clearly he wants a multi-yr deal averaging something more than $14 mil per. That's still young enough to attract that kind of deal, but I don't see it being a legit contender. The teams you mentioned make some sense. DET has been mentioned.

The team I think needs to make something happen soon is TB...they need to sell tkts, they need a RB, and they have the cap space.

Brown's contract 4/68m/19m is very fair given his production...he's been restructured to create space which is why PIT could even pay the Tag price for Bell...essentially the balance of his deal has been guaranteed as a result.

From the reports I just read, Pittsburgh offered Bell 5 years 70 million with something in the 30-35 million dollar range of guarantees. He rejected it.

I can see TB also with Winston. Take some pressure off that guy and redefine that offense. I just can't see where Bell is able to be signed next year especially after Brown's contract balloons to 21 million in cap versus the 8 he is taking this year.

I was never saying brown was not a reasonable price, just that with him and Ben pulling down that kind of cash, can you afford to have the top paid RB, top 3 paid WR's and a 23 million dollar QB occupying that much cap space? The offense is legit, but that defense needs some more work, and if you start handing out that much cash to 3 players, you have to start cutting more players instead of rework some of those weaknesses on defense. Just saying.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

From the reports I just read, Pittsburgh offered Bell 5 years 70 million with something in the 30-35 million dollar range of guarantees. He rejected it.

I can see TB also with Winston. Take some pressure off that guy and redefine that offense. I just can't see where Bell is able to be signed next year especially after Brown's contract balloons to 21 million in cap versus the 8 he is taking this year.

I was never saying brown was not a reasonable price, just that with him and Ben pulling down that kind of cash, can you afford to have the top paid RB, top 3 paid WR's and a 23 million dollar QB occupying that much cap space? The offense is legit, but that defense needs some more work, and if you start handing out that much cash to 3 players, you have to start cutting more players instead of rework some of those weaknesses on defense. Just saying.

If the report you saw is true and I've seen that one as well, and no one seems to want to confirm either of them, but regardless I think Bell is making a big mistake unless his agent knows something that I don't. That's highly possible given I sit in a construction company office and research online. But $60/$70 mil is a lot of money to turn down trying to set a precedent for great pass catching RBs.

First and foremost, he's a RB and his YPC stat has been steadily dropping playing behind one of the best OLs in the game. Watching the games week in week out, that's largely because he's getting fewer and fewer splash play type runs. That might concern some teams...it would me.

Bell/PIT...agreed...they have a few guys they can restructure to move money around, but at some point that will come back to bite them.

Brown...point taken. I was more or less pointing out why his CH is jumping up so high. But you're right, they can't tie up $60+ mil in 3 players...they haven't drafted LB or secondary well enough to do that. I expect this will be the last year of Joe Haden unless he has a pro bowl type season...and some of the young guys that have shown some promise will get their shot.

Ben wants to extend now after talking retirement just a yr or so ago, but imo only if they keep his OL intact. I don't see that happening. Foster (LG) will be the 1st go after this season...his backup looks pretty good, ready to start. Gilbert (RT) is probably next in '19 (last yr of Ben's deal). I think the '18 draft pick Big Okra will eventually take that spot.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If the report you saw is true and I've seen that one as well, and no one seems to want to confirm either of them, but regardless I think Bell is making a big mistake unless his agent knows something that I don't. That's highly possible given I sit in a construction company office and research online. But $60/$70 mil is a lot of money to turn down trying to set a precedent for great pass catching RBs.

First and foremost, he's a RB and his YPC stat has been steadily dropping playing behind one of the best OLs in the game. Watching the games week in week out, that's largely because he's getting fewer and fewer splash play type runs. That might concern some teams...it would me.

Bell/PIT...agreed...they have a few guys they can restructure to move money around, but at some point that will come back to bite them.

Brown...point taken. I was more or less pointing out why his CH is jumping up so high. But you're right, they can't tie up $60+ mil in 3 players...they haven't drafted LB or secondary well enough to do that. I expect this will be the last year of Joe Haden unless he has a pro bowl type season...and some of the young guys that have shown some promise will get their shot.

Ben wants to extend now after talking retirement just a yr or so ago, but imo only if they keep his OL intact. I don't see that happening. Foster (LG) will be the 1st go after this season...his backup looks pretty good, ready to start. Gilbert (RT) is probably next in '19 (last yr of Ben's deal). I think the '18 draft pick Big Okra will eventually take that spot.

On NFL.com this morning:

According to Rapoport, the Steelers' final offer to Bell paid $70 million over the next five seasons ($30 million over the next two), an increase over the five-year, $60 million offer to Bell last offseason.

Le'Veon Bell agent: RB likely in final year with Steelers

I just see this being a hard sell for most teams out there, even the ones that can really use him and want him. That is so much money in a position where the value of a RB starts decreasing heavily at the age 30 season. Granted, every RB is different, but Bell has had some injuries, has endured a heavy workload, will probably get even more work load thrown at him this year, and then the signing team will have to take that into consideration.

I just think it is too big of a contract for that position for most if not all teams. He may wind up resigning with the Steelers once FA hits because he may find that no one is willing to pay that price tag and he will take the 5 years 70 million Pittsburgh is offering now. Unless they decide to plan for a future without Bell and start grooming the offense in that direction.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

On NFL.com this morning:

According to Rapoport, the Steelers' final offer to Bell paid $70 million over the next five seasons ($30 million over the next two), an increase over the five-year, $60 million offer to Bell last offseason.

Le'Veon Bell agent: RB likely in final year with Steelers

I just see this being a hard sell for most teams out there, even the ones that can really use him and want him. That is so much money in a position where the value of a RB starts decreasing heavily at the age 30 season. Granted, every RB is different, but Bell has had some injuries, has endured a heavy workload, will probably get even more work load thrown at him this year, and then the signing team will have to take that into consideration.

I just think it is too big of a contract for that position for most if not all teams. He may wind up resigning with the Steelers once FA hits because he may find that no one is willing to pay that price tag and he will take the 5 years 70 million Pittsburgh is offering now. Unless they decide to plan for a future without Bell and start grooming the offense in that direction.

I'm not happy he's leaving (probably) but I'm glad he didn't sign that deal...if true, that was one of the more stupid contract offers the Steeler have made imo, but I temper that somewhat thinking that they likely wouldn't pay out the entirety of it.

There are teams that have loads of cap space every year, and with the floor rising imo he could get $15mil per but not for 5 yrs, 4 max with maybe $40-45m guaranteed. If he's a locker room problem this season at all...they probably won't even bother to make an offer.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I am just trying to think when a contract like that size in FA actually didn't hurt the signing team? You see so many horror stories of these massive FA deals and the guy is being released or traded only a few years into it with no production. Not saying Bell would be like that, but these massive FA deals after so many cases of that occurring does surprise me more and more teams don't just say screw it like Mike Brown and refuse to participate in that market for big names, rather sign their own.

 

[DanBengalfan]

He should go play for the Browns, they have a decent OL and plenty of cap space.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

He should go play for the Browns, they have a decent OL and plenty of cap space.

That would honestly be disaster for this division. I think Cleveland put a lot of right pieces in place and a guy like Bell could literally put them over the top with some tweaking on defense.

If Mayfield becomes half the QB they think he will become with Bell, Landry and Gordon, that is an offense to contend with.

 

[cincygrad]

I'm sad that he didn't sign.... Pittsburgh would be paying for a declining talent (and potential lockeroom cancer) for the next decade had they cut a deal with him. Running backs just aren't worth it when it comes to long term deals. Yes, I realize that Bell has special talent, but he's not worth the investment he is asking from the team.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

He may be worth it, if he stays healthy, but how long can he stay healthy? Just not worth the risk from a franchise stand point.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Word from Bell's agent was that after the first 2 years, there was basically no guaranteed money.

RB's just are not valued like they were, and for Bell to be asking to make nearly 2-3X's what the next RB is making in the league shows how out of touch he is with the reality of his position in the NFL these days.

Not to mention the amount of touches he has racked up so far in his career would suggest that the end of him being elite is much closer than he probably realizes.

There was a really good article some time ago about the case against Bell. It was a good read, and I wish I could find it now, but can't locate it. While Bell has certainly been a huge part of the Steelers offense, and really is now the motor that makes it go, RB's don't age well, and the drop off is often significant when it happens, unlike QB's.

Pitt is making the smart play here, and honestly they already put too much out there to re-sign him, IMO. For a team that has been cap stretched as the Steelers have been, I think they should really be looking towards that day when Ben and Bell are off their books, and they have a ton more flexibility to restructure their roster to move into the future.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Well, I guess Bell will not be the first to ask for $15 million with $45 million guaranteed.

I am not exactly sure where the Rams have this kind of money, but they seem to want to change the entire FA landscape for every position this year. Donald is probably like WTF? Where is mine?

Todd Gurley, Rams agree to 4-year, $60M extension

 

[Cincyfan78]

Well, I guess Bell will not be the first to ask for $15 million with $45 million guaranteed.

I am not exactly sure where the Rams have this kind of money, but they seem to want to change the entire FA landscape for every position this year. Donald is probably like WTF? Where is mine?

Todd Gurley, Rams agree to 4-year, $60M extension

When you take into consideration it is an extension with the original contract still in place, it works out to about $12+ mil a year. Only 45MM of the 4 year deal is guaranteed, so that works out to just 11.25MM guaranteed after the original contract. Sure, he could get more by hitting triggers, but chances are, he'll never get a chance to earn those back end compensation markers before he is either released or it is renegotiated. However you slice it, it is far below what Bell was reportedly looking at with around 15-17MM a year average.

Gurley also has 786 attempts and 128 career receptions. Far below the usage rate of Bell who has 1,229 rushing attempts and 312 receptions. He also has 2 more years of NFL wear and tear on him. Not to mention, his YPC was second lowest of his career as well as his YPC being the second lowest of his career. Take it how you want, but at 26 he has had a TON of usage in the NFL, and paying him a 5 year contract with the guarantees that he is looking for over the life of the contract just isn't smart business.

You could argue here, that the Rams are paying Gurley now while he is entering his prime years. Bell, most likely is already past the top of the hill, and is looking at the back side of his career. Bell probably should have worked out a better deal the first time around, and then renegotiated in 2-3 years. Instead, he's doubling down on the franchise amount, taking yet a second year of use (assuming he doesn't sit out 10 games) and abuse to enter a market where he could be proving what I've been saying here...he's on the back end of his career as a RB.

I could be wrong, but we'll see. Time will tell.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I personally don't think he is on the downside of his career. What you say about Gurley and his contract makes a lot more sense now. I guess I saw the 4 year deal and that is the way I saw it divided up over 4 years. However, as much as I think Bell has 2 or 3 great years left in him, he should have never turned down the 15 million a year from Pittsburgh. That amount of money is insane. Granted, it didn't have the same guarantees, and I know that was the sticking point for him, he wanted more guaranteed. However, at his age, on a 4 to 5 year deal, he can perform well enough to make Pittsburgh struggle to maintain that salary without the guarantees in place. Pittsburgh would likely trade him before releasing him, because you don't want to wind up with no compensation for a talent like Bell if you are strictly doing a salary dump.

I think even signing a contract like that with Pittsburgh where there is less guaranteed money, but seeing the overall price of the contract be where he wants, he is more likely to see it because of how big of a star that he is. Teams don't usually drop or trade their superstars. They need that fan favorite to draw sell tickets and possibly increase prices depending on demand.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I personally don't think he is on the downside of his career. What you say about Gurley and his contract makes a lot more sense now. I guess I saw the 4 year deal and that is the way I saw it divided up over 4 years. However, as much as I think Bell has 2 or 3 great years left in him, he should have never turned down the 15 million a year from Pittsburgh. That amount of money is insane. Granted, it didn't have the same guarantees, and I know that was the sticking point for him, he wanted more guaranteed. However, at his age, on a 4 to 5 year deal, he can perform well enough to make Pittsburgh struggle to maintain that salary without the guarantees in place. Pittsburgh would likely trade him before releasing him, because you don't want to wind up with no compensation for a talent like Bell if you are strictly doing a salary dump.

I think even signing a contract like that with Pittsburgh where there is less guaranteed money, but seeing the overall price of the contract be where he wants, he is more likely to see it because of how big of a star that he is. Teams don't usually drop or trade their superstars. They need that fan favorite to draw sell tickets and possibly increase prices depending on demand.

If I were him, I would have looked at a 3 year contract last year when he was 25. He could then look to renegotiate for year 3, when he would be 28 and get one last decent contract before he turns 30. Now he's going to be 27 going into next year, with an absurd usage rate (again, assuming he doesn't sit out 10 games, which I think he should from a contract/usage standpoint). No team is going to want to give him guarantees past his 30's. Historically speaking, no RB puts up great numbers after 30. The list is confined to 1 hand. Maybe he's an exception, but if you are an owner, you can't bet on the exception.

 

[DanBengalfan]

for us, we should go with what we have at RB, our OL, although it's a little better, I think is still average. One or two injuries and are back in the shit.

 

[Cincyfan78]

for us, we should go with what we have at RB, our OL, although it's a little better, I think is still average. One or two injuries and are back in the shit.

I guess it depends on who is injured. Though, I'd wager you could probably say the same for many teams across the NFL if they lost 2 Linemen (especially high caliber ones).

As for our line, I think the left side, plus center, will be set and be pretty solid. I think RG has a chance to be at least average. I liked what I saw in flashes last year with Westerman and others rotating through towards the end. I'm curious to see if those guys can take it the next step and grab ahold of the RG job.

I think the worst position of the group is RT. It's a shit show over there with Fisher, Ob, and Hart.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

From Training Camp reports, Billy Price was f up after f up on his first day. Since then, he is only f'ing up 1 play a practice. He is young, not used to having a QB rubbing his ass, but still, that is a little concerning.

 

[Cincyfan78]

From Training Camp reports, Billy Price was f up after f up on his first day. Since then, he is only f'ing up 1 play a practice. He is young, not used to having a QB rubbing his ass, but still, that is a little concerning.

I'll be more concerned if it continues through the pre-season games.

One of those great unknowns you get when you draft a shotgun/spread center that mostly direct snaps the ball in a shotgun style, and then have him switch to mostly QB exchange snaps under center.

By all other accounts, he has done well. Interested to see if that continues as practices with pads wears on, and into the pre-season games.