NFL LIVE TOP 5 OFFENSES

[Sharkinva]

Marriota will be over 30 million per season.

And no one will blink because he was a first round pick.

Now Kirk will never be a 1st round pick because that ship sailed in 2012. So the only way for Kirk to get that kind of respect is to either convincingly be named league MVP, or to win a Super Bowl. Because Kirk is every bit as good as Flacco, and no one blinked when the Ravens signed him to a $100M dollar contract after the Ravens won a Super Bowl.

 

[gkekoa]

And no one will blink because he was a first round pick.

Now Kirk will never be a 1st round pick because that ship sailed in 2012. So the only way for Kirk to get that kind of respect is to either convincingly be named league MVP, or to win a Super Bowl. Because Kirk is every bit as good as Flacco, and no one blinked when the Ravens signed him to a $100M dollar contract after the Ravens won a Super Bowl.

I agree. People don't see all players have strengths and weaknesses. KC was not flashy in college and had limited arm talent...much like Tom Brady to be honest. KC can read defenses and throw on time, things that are extremely important in this offense, while his arm strength has improved every year. Cam and Luck have proven to be inaccurate, not be able to throw on time, and hurt their OLs because they think they can make something out of nothing. They don't fit this offense at all.

 

[Sportster 72]

A key component for any QB on any team is to be able to process information (read defenses), help set line protections and know where the weak spots in the defense on each play are going to be and to throw on time to the right place. Not many can which is why there are not a lot of good QBs. Cousins has the ability to do that. He still can and will get better at it but he possesses that quality.

 

[ehb5]

How good were PG, DJ, and Jordan Reed before KC took over this offense? This offense is predicated on timing and accuracy, two things those 3 QBs are not known for. You can take their arm strength but I will take accuracy.

Luck just had his best season in some aspects. He completed a career best 63% of his passes and had his best TD/NOT ratio. He continues to take sack after sack because he refuses get the ball out on time. He thinks he can keep plays alive with his legs and he does; at the cost of his 2015 season and he is currently injured as well.

Cam had a tremendous 2015. Cam had a tremendously poor 2016. He had pretty much the same team. He is an electric player but not a great QB. He doesn't even complete 60% of his passes.

Marriota is interesting because I do think he can be the best of all of them. The problem is he can't stay healthy.

These guys do not improve the players around him. They hurt their offensive lines. They do not fit this offense.

PG, DJ, and Reed were all great before too. Why?

Mariota is pretty highly regarded for his timing and accuracy. I actually think he'd fit pretty well. The other two while not known for timing and accuracy dont have a problem with it. It just isnt their strongest area. And either way I dont think its very relevant how they fit in the offense. For one, this is all suuuper hypothetical and two, if Gruden is a good coach (which I think he is) than he'd be more than capable of tweaking the offense perfectly to fit those 2. Theres no reason to think Cam and Gruden couldnt be a formidable combination especially given the weapons we had/have.

Im not sure I buy Cam having a tremendously poor 2016. Both the B/R 1000 and the PFF season rankings had him in the top 10 among QBs still. Both are based on film as opposed to just looking at the basic statistics. I think that really helps to highlight how bad his surrounding offense was when you look at it that way. He was also playing hurt for much of the year. He certainly wasnt as good as he was in 2015, but he wasnt bad at all either.

As for Mariota, he does need to stay healthy. But his injuries have just been typical football injuries where somebody rolled up on his leg at a weird angle. Anybody wouldve broken their leg or sprained their knee like that, its just bad luck. I wouldnt worry about it moving forward.

These guys are hurt by their olines much more than the other way around. To say they dont make the players around them better is ridiculous too. Whether they can or cant run this offense as its designed right now isnt very relevant IMO.

 

[ehb5]

And no one will blink because he was a first round pick.

Now Kirk will never be a 1st round pick because that ship sailed in 2012. So the only way for Kirk to get that kind of respect is to either convincingly be named league MVP, or to win a Super Bowl. Because Kirk is every bit as good as Flacco, and no one blinked when the Ravens signed him to a $100M dollar contract after the Ravens won a Super Bowl.

Trust me. There was some freaking blinking when Flacco signed that deal.

I think Kirk's draft status is pretty irrelevant right now.

 

[Sharkinva]

Trust me. There was some freaking blinking when Flacco signed that deal.

I think Kirk's draft status is pretty irrelevant right now.

Have to disagree. How many times has it been pointed out that well we found Kirk in the 4th, so how hard can it be to find another good QB if we found him in the 4th, Seattle got Wilson after the 1st and the end all be all, King Dak was not drafted in the first round. The drum has been beat to death that Kirk is easily replaceable by quite a few posters.

 

[ehb5]

Have to disagree. How many times has it been pointed out that well we found Kirk in the 4th, so how hard can it be to find another good QB if we found him in the 4th, Seattle got Wilson after the 1st and the end all be all, King Dak was not drafted in the first round. The drum has been beat to death that Kirk is easily replaceable by quite a few posters.

Meh. I think the overall numbers on drafting QBs in the 4th round are pretty clear.

 

[Sharkinva]

Meh. I think the overall numbers on drafting QBs in the 4th round are pretty clear.

I think the over all numbers on drafting QBs period are pretty clear. And trading up for them has burned more teams than Snoop and Blunts in a Colorado Ski resort.

 

[Stymietee]

PG, DJ, and Reed were all great before too. Why?

Mariota is pretty highly regarded for his timing and accuracy. I actually think he'd fit pretty well. The other two while not known for timing and accuracy dont have a problem with it. It just isnt their strongest area. And either way I dont think its very relevant how they fit in the offense. For one, this is all suuuper hypothetical and two, if Gruden is a good coach (which I think he is) than he'd be more than capable of tweaking the offense perfectly to fit those 2. Theres no reason to think Cam and Gruden couldnt be a formidable combination especially given the weapons we had/have.

Im not sure I buy Cam having a tremendously poor 2016. Both the B/R 1000 and the PFF season rankings had him in the top 10 among QBs still. Both are based on film as opposed to just looking at the basic statistics. I think that really helps to highlight how bad his surrounding offense was when you look at it that way. He was also playing hurt for much of the year. He certainly wasnt as good as he was in 2015, but he wasnt bad at all either.

As for Mariota, he does need to stay healthy. But his injuries have just been typical football injuries where somebody rolled up on his leg at a weird angle. Anybody wouldve broken their leg or sprained their knee like that, its just bad luck. I wouldnt worry about it moving forward.

These guys are hurt by their olines much more than the other way around. To say they dont make the players around them better is ridiculous too. Whether they can or cant run this offense as its designed right now isnt very relevant IMO.

Com'on man we all know that there's just no way to survive without Cousins at the helm for the next 20 or so years. The NFL owes us that for trying so hard for the last 20 years just to become decent and failing through no fault of our own.

Gotta love the doom and gloomers though...so here's a to all who sees this without kirk!

 

[skinsdad62]

why are we so convinced getting rid of KC is the right move ?

 

[Sharkinva]

why are we so convinced getting rid of KC is the right move ?

Because it would cost less against the cap, and would be much more exciting to say we traded up to draft an elite prospect??

 

[gkekoa]

PG, DJ, and Reed were all great before too. Why?

Mariota is pretty highly regarded for his timing and accuracy. I actually think he'd fit pretty well. The other two while not known for timing and accuracy dont have a problem with it. It just isnt their strongest area. And either way I dont think its very relevant how they fit in the offense. For one, this is all suuuper hypothetical and two, if Gruden is a good coach (which I think he is) than he'd be more than capable of tweaking the offense perfectly to fit those 2. Theres no reason to think Cam and Gruden couldnt be a formidable combination especially given the weapons we had/have.

Im not sure I buy Cam having a tremendously poor 2016. Both the B/R 1000 and the PFF season rankings had him in the top 10 among QBs still. Both are based on film as opposed to just looking at the basic statistics. I think that really helps to highlight how bad his surrounding offense was when you look at it that way. He was also playing hurt for much of the year. He certainly wasnt as good as he was in 2015, but he wasnt bad at all either.

As for Mariota, he does need to stay healthy. But his injuries have just been typical football injuries where somebody rolled up on his leg at a weird angle. Anybody wouldve broken their leg or sprained their knee like that, its just bad luck. I wouldnt worry about it moving forward.

These guys are hurt by their olines much more than the other way around. To say they dont make the players around them better is ridiculous too. Whether they can or cant run this offense as its designed right now isnt very relevant IMO.

Garcon had one big season. He is typically a round 800 yards. Far from great.

DJ is better than PG but not a dominant force. He is a 1000 to 1100 yard a year guy.

Jordan Reed never had 500 yards before KC, partly because of injury. Reed is a far better player with KC.

I like Mariota and he is very accurate but not sure on timing. The problem with him is injury.

Cam has no timing and is extremely inaccurate. LUCK has his issues with both. You claim coaches should bend and play to the strength of the QB, and I agree to an extent. That being said, other than running more, what do Cam and Luck do better than KC? I would say not a damn thing. Wait...they can throw it further and less accurately.

You say it is irrelevant for them to run this offense. That is all we need to say then. You think it is all the players that lead to success. I guess guys like Norv Turner and Wade Phillips always have the most talent playing for them and their syste.s do not matter. And Bellicheck sucks.

 

[Sharkinva]

Garcon had one big season. He is typically a round 800 yards. Far from great.

DJ is better than PG but not a dominant force. He is a 1000 to 1100 yard a year guy.

Jordan Reed never had 500 yards before KC, partly because of injury. Reed is a far better player with KC.

I like Mariota and he is very accurate but not sure on timing. The problem with him is injury.

Cam has no timing and is extremely inaccurate. LUCK has his issues with both. You claim coaches should bend and play to the strength of the QB, and I agree to an extent. That being said, other than running more, what do Cam and Luck do better than KC? I would say not a damn thing. Wait...they can throw it further and less accurately.

You say it is irrelevant for them to run this offense. That is all we need to say then. You think it is all the players that lead to success. I guess guys like Norv Turner and Wade Phillips always have the most talent playing for them and their syste.s do not matter. And Bellicheck sucks.

Proof that most coaches value their system over any player.... Tim Tebow in New England. He didnt fit the system, Darth Hoody cut his ass like a hot knife through warm butter, quick and easy.

 

[Stymietee]

why are we so convinced getting rid of KC is the right move ?

I'm definitely NOT on that bandwagon, I'm with the let's plan just in case that it becomes real team. Wasn't it interesting to watch teams make moves to draft QB's of the future in this past draft. Looks like a bunch of them, except dumb assed Chicago's guy and maybe Houston's, will be sitting on the pine learning the craft for a minute. Hmmmm, now where have I mentioned that before?

 

[skinsdad62]

I'm definitely NOT on that bandwagon, I'm with the let's plan just in case that it becomes real team. Wasn't it interesting to watch teams make moves to draft QB's of the future in this past draft. Looks like a bunch of them, except dumb assed Chicago's guy and maybe Houston's, will be sitting on the pine learning the craft for a minute. Hmmmm, now where have I mentioned that before?

and that is how our team will take a step back because the corp guys will start becoming long in tooth

i know of only 4 rookies to be ina championship game , baugh 36 waterfield 45 , bog ben and wilson ?

 

[Stymietee]

and that is how our team will take a step back because the corp guys will start becoming long in tooth

i know of only 4 rookies to be ina championship game , baugh 36 waterfield 45 , bog ben and wilson ?

I hope that this was a reference to that Chicago move (maybe Houston's), but, Just to be clear, are you stating that these teams that drafted QB's only to have them sit, learn, and hone their craft would be taking a step back by doing this?

 

[ehb5]

Garcon had one big season. He is typically a round 800 yards. Far from great.

DJ is better than PG but not a dominant force. He is a 1000 to 1100 yard a year guy.

Jordan Reed never had 500 yards before KC, partly because of injury. Reed is a far better player with KC.

I like Mariota and he is very accurate but not sure on timing. The problem with him is injury.

Cam has no timing and is extremely inaccurate. LUCK has his issues with both. You claim coaches should bend and play to the strength of the QB, and I agree to an extent. That being said, other than running more, what do Cam and Luck do better than KC? I would say not a damn thing. Wait...they can throw it further and less accurately.

You say it is irrelevant for them to run this offense. That is all we need to say then. You think it is all the players that lead to success. I guess guys like Norv Turner and Wade Phillips always have the most talent playing for them and their syste.s do not matter. And Bellicheck sucks.

Garcon is a very good receiver. I think thats quite clear if you watch our games (which I know you do). Hes had 2 1000 yard seasons but keep in mind that when there are this many weapons in an offense numbers tend to be spread out a bit. I dont think youd want him as a #1 but hes a very good #2 receiver. (though he has had success as a #1)

DJax is arguably the best deep threat of all time. He is at the very least dominant in that aspect. Not to mention demands the focus of the opposing defense at all times. He is not a #1 in the Julio Jones sense but how many guys are? He can absolutely be a #1 (and has for his entire career up until teaming up with Mike Evans for this coming season). He is a very good receiver.

Jordan Reed. Cmon dude. I think hes pretty widely accepted as the best receiving TE in the league outside of Gronk. If not hes right up there. Sure hes often injured but when on the field he's easily the best player on this offense not named Trent Williams. And to your last point about Reed...no shit he's better with KC. Things are easier with better QB play, that isnt rocket science.

Saying Cam has no timing or accuracy is patently false. He runs a very different offense from what we run here but that doesnt mean he is inaccurate. What do Cam and Luck do better? Moving in the pocket, passing downfield (by a long shot), running the ball, fitting the ball into tight windows, presnap reads (admittedly this is probably difficult to prove either way but I dont think its an area that Kirk is great at and I think they do a better job).

Did I say coaching doesnt matter? I must have missed that. Oh wait, I actually made reference to the opposite of that being true when I said I thought Gruden was a good coach. The best coaches do adapt. You dont force a square peg in a round hole.

 

[ehb5]

Proof that most coaches value their system over any player.... Tim Tebow in New England. He didnt fit the system, Darth Hoody cut his ass like a hot knife through warm butter, quick and easy.

Wut.

This makes no sense at all.

Tim Tebow is the single worst quarterback I have ever seen play in the NFL. He was signed without even having a definite position. At best he wouldve been a backup QB. Why tf would anybody ever change their system to accommodate that.

He got cut because hes an awful football player.

Seriously, was this post a joke? I really hope it was and it just flew over my head because this could not make less sense.

 

[gkekoa]

Garcon is a very good receiver. I think thats quite clear if you watch our games (which I know you do). Hes had 2 1000 yard seasons but keep in mind that when there are this many weapons in an offense numbers tend to be spread out a bit. I dont think youd want him as a #1 but hes a very good #2 receiver. (though he has had success as a #1)

DJax is arguably the best deep threat of all time. He is at the very least dominant in that aspect. Not to mention demands the focus of the opposing defense at all times. He is not a #1 in the Julio Jones sense but how many guys are? He can absolutely be a #1 (and has for his entire career up until teaming up with Mike Evans for this coming season). He is a very good receiver.

Jordan Reed. Cmon dude. I think hes pretty widely accepted as the best receiving TE in the league outside of Gronk. If not hes right up there. Sure hes often injured but when on the field he's easily the best player on this offense not named Trent Williams. And to your last point about Reed...no shit he's better with KC. Things are easier with better QB play, that isnt rocket science.

Saying Cam has no timing or accuracy is patently false. He runs a very different offense from what we run here but that doesnt mean he is inaccurate. What do Cam and Luck do better? Moving in the pocket, passing downfield (by a long shot), running the ball, fitting the ball into tight windows, presnap reads (admittedly this is probably difficult to prove either way but I dont think its an area that Kirk is great at and I think they do a better job).

Did I say coaching doesnt matter? I must have missed that. Oh wait, I actually made reference to the opposite of that being true when I said I thought Gruden was a good coach. The best coaches do adapt. You dont force a square peg in a round hole.

I always defended PG as a good 2. There are plenty of those in this league. Sadly some of those are 1s.

DJ was a great deep threat; however, he is frequently injured and not the player he was in PHI.

I love Jordan Reed. He is a great receiving TE, made better by a QB that fits this system.

Cam and Luck are not better at moving in the pocket. They flee the pocket. Just because they throw more often downfield doesn't make them better at doing it. They have stronger arms but that doesn't make them better at fitting the ball in tight windows. KC has far greater accuracy than both which allows him to fit the ball into areas where Cam and Luck can't because of his accuracy. Presnap reads is nearly laughable. Cam may be illiterate. Luck may be better but he hasn't been the last two seasons playing in one of the worst divisions in football. Cam is far too inconsistent.

Well when that was done here, the Shanahans were blamed for RG3 failing even if they caused his success. You think coaches should adapt but not all systems are equal.

 

[ehb5]

I always defended PG as a good 2. There are plenty of those in this league. Sadly some of those are 1s.

DJ was a great deep threat; however, he is frequently injured and not the player he was in PHI.

I love Jordan Reed. He is a great receiving TE, made better by a QB that fits this system.

Cam and Luck are not better at moving in the pocket. They flee the pocket. Just because they throw more often downfield doesn't make them better at doing it. They have stronger arms but that doesn't make them better at fitting the ball in tight windows. KC has far greater accuracy than both which allows him to fit the ball into areas where Cam and Luck can't because of his accuracy. Presnap reads is nearly laughable. Cam may be illiterate. Luck may be better but he hasn't been the last two seasons playing in one of the worst divisions in football. Cam is far too inconsistent.

Well when that was done here, the Shanahans were blamed for RG3 failing even if they caused his success. You think coaches should adapt but not all systems are equal.

Completely disagree with everything in that Cam/Luck paragraph. Kirk isnt great at moving in the pocket. He gets the ball out very quickly, but his movement in the pocket is subpar. Their stronger arms certainly help fit the ball into tight windows but I dont say it for that reason. I say it because thats what you see on tape. KC having better accuracy is questionable I think. Depends what area of the field at the least. How is presnap reads leaughable? And what does literacy have to do at all with them? Or where tf did you even get that idea from? Lets also keep in mind (since you keep bringing it up) that Kirk isnt a model of consistency either.