Series Thread: Mariners @ Astros 5/2/14 to 5/4/14

[SeattleCoug]

Now 4-0 when almonte sits. Looks like Lloyd finally figured out how he best helps the team.

 

[NWinAZ]

Yup, but you don't know until you try. Maybe he stuck with him a bit too long, but that is a tough call because you want to give him the chance to rebound. It didn't happen so back to Saunders and when Saunders reverts back to his past we call up Jones.

 

[NWinAZ]

There you go.

4m[/ame] Almonte optioned to Tacoma. No corresponding move yet

 

[SeattleCoug]

.He just looked overmatched both offensively and defensively. He may be decent someday but he's not ready. But I don't blame him for that, I blame Jack Z for constructing a terrible outfield and forcing us to give him a shot

 

[seahawksfan234]

I don't either, but find a non-Latino SS who can field like a game changer. Not easy to do.

Troy Tulowitzki, Ian Desmond, J.J. Hardy, Jed Lowrie are all excellent shortstops who are not Latino. As I said, I don't care about the player's race just give me a good shortstop. I think Franklin and or Miller could fill that role, but they need to work out their problems.

If you like paying for the past, then I have a great Pinto to sell you. Stats have a lot to do with lineups. Of course Cano's numbers will be better. If he played on the Astros all those years you would be saying, "That Cano kid is alright".

Still would have been a .300+ 20HR+ hitter, which I'd still take over Altuve. Cano is also better defensively.

 

[NWinAZ]

Troy Tulowitzki, Ian Desmond, J.J. Hardy, Jed Lowrie are all excellent shortstops who are not Latino. As I said, I don't care about the player's race just give me a good shortstop. I think Franklin and or Miller could fill that role, but they need to work out their problems.

Talking defensive SS's. All you mentioned are good hitting SS's, but average defensively. I would sacrifice hitting for a defensive wizard at SS (Vizquel). Surprised you didn't mention Arod and Jeter.

Still would have been a .300+ 20HR+ hitter, which I'd still take over Altuve. Cano is also better defensively.

Defensively? Please. His slack effort that people think is so cool is not good. Did you see that cutoff throw to the plate on the ball Almonte didn't catch yesterday? He side-armed it from the grass in center. Don't confuse 'style' with ability.

Cano on Seattle: .3 WAR
Altuve 2014: .4 WAR

Cano $240M
Altuve $12.5M

Paying for the past gets you a future of heartache.

 

[Podunkparte]

Talking defensive SS's. All you mentioned are good hitting SS's, but average defensively. I would sacrifice hitting for a defensive wizard at SS (Vizquel). Surprised you didn't mention Arod and Jeter.



Defensively? Please. His slack effort that people think is so cool is not good. Did you see that cutoff throw to the plate on the ball Almonte didn't catch yesterday? He side-armed it from the grass in center. Don't confuse 'style' with ability.

Cano on Seattle: .3 WAR
Altuve 2014: .4 WAR

Cano $240M
Altuve $12.5M

Paying for the past gets you a future of heartache.

We already tried the Jack Wilson thing. It worked out great. Brendan Ryan too

 

[unlvmariners]

I don't need a great defensive SS I just want a slightly above avg. one that can also swing the bat a little bit.

 

[cezero]

I don't need a great defensive SS I just want a slightly above avg. one that can also swing the bat a little bit.

reaching for the stars regarding pretty much any position player, really.

for the m's, it's pretty much all a matter of shuffling around dog shit day after day, year after year.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Cano on Seattle: .3 WAR
Altuve 2014: .4 WAR

Cano $240M
Altuve $12.5M

Paying for the past gets you a future of heartache.

Stop it

In 2012 when Brendan Ryan hit .194 he had a 3.3 WAR, nearly 3 times higher than any WAR Altuve has ever had

As a Mariner fan we should be the last people to want to "sacrifice offense for defense"

I don't care if Altuve is making $15 an hour and still has 15 years left in him. I would never trade Cano for him

 

[seahawksfan234]

Talking defensive SS's. All you mentioned are good hitting SS's, but average defensively. I would sacrifice hitting for a defensive wizard at SS (Vizquel). Surprised you didn't mention Arod and Jeter.

Didn't mention A-Rod or Jeter because I thought you meant playing currently. Those guys with the bigger bats make up for their average defense at the position.

Defensively? Please. His slack effort that people think is so cool is not good. Did you see that cutoff throw to the plate on the ball Almonte didn't catch yesterday? He side-armed it from the grass in center. Don't confuse 'style' with ability.

His dWAR with New York was 3.0 combined over 2012 and 2013 with New York. You can't attribute that to the team that played around him. I don't catch all of the games so I tend to defer to dWAR for defensive judgements.

Cano on Seattle: .3 WAR
Altuve 2014: .4 WAR

Cano $240M
Altuve $12.5M

We are not even 30 games into the season. I'd be stunned if Cano doesn't finish with a higher WAR than Altuve. Cano is the better player by far, but if you're looking for value then Altuve is the better value. As much as I love to Mariner hate, Cano is an excellent player. Not taking into consideration age or salary, there is not a 2B in MLB I'd take over Cano.

 

[Podunkparte]

Is this guy seriously arguing Jose Altuve is a better option than Robinson Cano?

*KobeWhatLaugh.gif

 

[NWinAZ]

For the money and years? Absolutely. Cano is the new Ichiro. Pay him the big money, say you can't afford anyone else, and have the fans get giddy all over a named player while the losses stack up. Can he teach the young guys how to trot to 1B or avoid any chance of contact at 2B while turning a double-play. More to winning than a guy with stats.

 

[NWinAZ]

Stop it

In 2012 when Brendan Ryan hit .194 he had a 3.3 WAR, nearly 3 times higher than any WAR Altuve has ever had

As a Mariner fan we should be the last people to want to "sacrifice offense for defense"

I don't care if Altuve is making $15 an hour and still has 15 years left in him. I would never trade Cano for him

Ryan plays SS and Altuve plays 2B. Try to keep up.

You don't ever sacrifice defense up the middle. Omar meant more to clubs than any hitting SS. Don't ever blame a SS for a teams lack of offense. If the hitters at the positions that should hit don't, that isn't on the SS or catcher.

I know you wouldn't deal Cano for Altuve. You are a Mariners fan and you need a name to cling to since wins don't happen. Mariners management counts on that.

 

[cezero]

For the money and years? Absolutely. Cano is the new Ichiro. Pay him the big money, say you can't afford anyone else, and have the fans get giddy all over a named player while the losses stack up. Can he teach the young guys how to trot to 1B or avoid any chance of contact at 2B while turning a double-play. More to winning than a guy with stats.

yep

they'll probably break even on the investment in cano, and it will be enough to keep sheeple happy. buying him was little more than a PR stunt to feign concern for building a winning franchise. easier to just throw a quarter of a billion at one player spread over 10 years and say "hey look, we tried, yuck yuck!".

i'm not saying that altuve is better, just that this absurd investment in a guy who will be 40 at the end of his contract isn't the piece of a bigger puzzle that anybody in the FO is trying to articulate. it's just smoke and mirrors.

just hoping beyond hope that nintendo chooses to sell someday soon. it's the only hope that we'll ever have real baseball back in the northwest.

 

[Logicallylethal]

Ryan plays SS and Altuve plays 2B. Try to keep up.

You don't ever sacrifice defense up the middle. Omar meant more to clubs than any hitting SS. Don't ever blame a SS for a teams lack of offense. If the hitters at the positions that should hit don't, that isn't on the SS or catcher.

I know you wouldn't deal Cano for Altuve. You are a Mariners fan and you need a name to cling to since wins don't happen. Mariners management counts on that.

2013 Regular Season MLB Baseball Batting Statistics - MLB Second Basemen - Major League Baseball - ESPN

2013 Regular Season MLB Baseball 2B Fielding Statistics - Major League Baseball - ESPN

Jose Altuve was 23rd in WAR last year and 50th in DWAR last year among all 2nd basemen. The year before that he was tied for 19th in WAR and 150th in DWAR. You wanna guess where Cano was? Last year he was 1st in WAR and 14th in DWAR. The year before that he was also 1st in WAR and 3rd in DWAR

Seems to me like you have some deep rooted hatred for Cano

 

[NWinAZ]

I may get hell for this, but I would take Altuve over Cano. I like how that jockey plays baseball.

Boy I loved the arguments against my statement. What 3 years showed us. And yes I am baseball bored.

 

[cezero]

yep
just hoping beyond hope that nintendo chooses to sell someday soon. it's the only hope that we'll ever have real baseball back in the northwest.

yeah, so much for that

thanks for the necromancy, nw

 

[seahawksfan234]

Boy I loved the arguments against my statement. What 3 years showed us. And yes I am baseball bored.

I happily decided to just not read what I wrote when I saw what the topic was.

 

[unlvmariners]

Boy I loved the arguments against my statement. What 3 years showed us. And yes I am baseball bored.

Winner! I don't think anyone would argue it now.