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Lions pick up Tyrunn Walker

TrustMeIamRight

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I'm not interested in putting in the time to try and convince anyone here anything. Suh, Watt, both are elite players in their prime. Something the Lions don't have the luxury of saying.

You keep saying you'd never pay Suh 19 million. But the Lions haven't used any of the savings to do anything, literally. So where all these FAs Mayhew was going to sign???

Revis? Hardy? Any corners? Guards? We got a 31 year old cast off coming off PED suspension.

Yet somehow you love it.

I don't.

You'd have to talk to Evil about the cap ramifications regarding Suh. I can make an educated guess, but that is all this is. My guess is -- IF the Lions had re-signed Suh, they would have had to restructure Calvin or Stafford again to make room or they would have had to release players, which they can now keep (i.e. Tulloch, maybe Pettigrew -- I'm not sure)

By NOT signing Suh -- it didn't "free up" 17 million, as the Lions still have a cap hit of 9 million from kicking the can on Suh contracts. Basically, IMO, they traded for Ngata (8 million), which pretty much negated any other FA splashes they were going to make. Revis is a pipe dream. He was going to one of two places -- a major market or a major super bowl contender. Hardy -- the guy is on the NFL exempt list for choke slamming his girlfriend on a bed full of firearms. Dallas's own mayor spoke out against the signing of Hardy and I'd be willing to be the NFL takes it sweet time taking him off the exempt list and he may not even play this year.

That being said -- Ngata's 'PED Suspension' was for adderall. So it isn't as if he was taking roids and will show up half the size he was last year. As far as being a cast off. Ngata was an all-pro in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012, he was also in the pro bowl in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. He was having a great year in 2014 until the positive test for adderall.

He won't get after the QB like Suh, but he will get doubled every bit as much and be just as good, if not better, in the run game.

And IMO, Suh is an elite player, but he is not on the same level as Watt and it isn't even close. Want more proof, other than the stats I posted. Go look at who the defensive player of the year was two of the last three years. Hell -- I think Watt finished 2nd in the MVP voting this year.

I also found the QB hits and pressures -- I wrote them down while I was on my IPad, I will post them later and you can see how lopsided those are in Watt's favor too. I can't remember the exact numbers, but Watt has an almost 3 to 1 lead in combined QB hits and pressures.
 

lionstop1

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No need to try and convince him of who's better, man. He thinks Suh is the god of the NFL and nobody is better than him. No matter what anyone says, Suh does not deserve more money than Watt and Lions fans better be glad the team didnt give him that enormous contract.

I understand wanting a player like Suh on your team but Im not sure Miami has done much to help their cause in that division. I would even argue that either the Jets or Buffalo still have a better defense and may be the better teams regardless of last year.
 

RobBase

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No need to try and convince him of who's better, man. He thinks Suh is the god of the NFL and nobody is better than him. No matter what anyone says, Suh does not deserve more money than Watt and Lions fans better be glad the team didnt give him that enormous contract.

I understand wanting a player like Suh on your team but Im not sure Miami has done much to help their cause in that division. I would even argue that either the Jets or Buffalo still have a better defense and may be the better teams regardless of last year.

No one is gonna tell you how to pay NFL athletes, pimp.

1374060660_pimp-c.jpg
 

Rollingthndr

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I just pointed out a rookie graded out as the #1 DT in the NFL last year. A rookie that literally fell into our laps, only to be passed over.

And you won't hear me argue that Suh isn't one of the best DT's in the NFL right now. He is. Is he far and away the best DT? No. As I have said -- I agree with most of the stuff you say on this board. There isn't a chance in a hell though I would pay, not just Suh, but any DT in the NFL, 19 million a year and no chance would I give any player on defense more than JJ Watt. Here is why:

Tackles
Watt 295
Suh 235

Sacks
Watt 57.0
Suh 36.0

Pass Defensed
Watt 37
Suh 15

Stuffs
Watt 62
Suh 36

Forced Fumbles
Watt 12
Suh 11

Fumbles Recovered
Watt 11
Suh 1

Blocked Kicks
Watt 4
Suh 1

I love Suh, but Watt faces double and triple teams just like Suh and he is just on another level. I should also point out -- Watt's numbers are for 4 years. Suh's numbers are for 5 years. So it is only going to get uglier.

Watt's numbers aren't skewed either as he plays DT in the 3-4, instead of many guys who ring up stats as a 3-4 rush OLB.

If you can convince me that Suh is a better player and worth the money he was paid -- I'm willing to listen.


Those are great stats and all but it is simple supply and demand.
Watt was under the control of the Texans for 4 more years. 2 left on the contract and 2 years to be franchised. 1 team bidding for his services.

Suh hit the open market. There were probably at least 20 teams in play (with legitimate cap space) for his services.

More buyers = Higher Prices
 

Thruthefog

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I just pointed out a rookie graded out as the #1 DT in the NFL last year. A rookie that literally fell into our laps, only to be passed over.

And you won't hear me argue that Suh isn't one of the best DT's in the NFL right now. He is. Is he far and away the best DT? No. As I have said -- I agree with most of the stuff you say on this board. There isn't a chance in a hell though I would pay, not just Suh, but any DT in the NFL, 19 million a year and no chance would I give any player on defense more than JJ Watt. Here is why:

Tackles
Watt 295
Suh 235

Sacks
Watt 57.0
Suh 36.0

Pass Defensed
Watt 37
Suh 15

Stuffs
Watt 62
Suh 36

Forced Fumbles
Watt 12
Suh 11

Fumbles Recovered
Watt 11
Suh 1

Blocked Kicks
Watt 4
Suh 1

I love Suh, but Watt faces double and triple teams just like Suh and he is just on another level. I should also point out -- Watt's numbers are for 4 years. Suh's numbers are for 5 years. So it is only going to get uglier.

Watt's numbers aren't skewed either as he plays DT in the 3-4, instead of many guys who ring up stats as a 3-4 rush OLB.

If you can convince me that Suh is a better player and worth the money he was paid -- I'm willing to listen.

A new world record. Step down Randy. The shit in this post is well over 100 courics. The bolded part is what put it over the top.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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Those are great stats and all but it is simple supply and demand.
Watt was under the control of the Texans for 4 more years. 2 left on the contract and 2 years to be franchised. 1 team bidding for his services.

Suh hit the open market. There were probably at least 20 teams in play (with legitimate cap space) for his services.

More buyers = Higher Prices

JJ Watt signed an extension last year, which doesn't even begin until 2016. So Watt won't be hitting the market until 2022.

And I understand the economics of the game, as do the players. I don't blame Suh at all for leaving to go to Miami for more money. The NFL is a cut throat business and you want to make the most money you can while you still have a job. Doesn't change the fact though, it is a ridiculous contract and Suh has zero chance of living up to what he is being paid.

I posted the stats to show how ridiculously lopsided they are between Suh and Watt. That is why I posted when he first signed -- Suh should be kissing his agent or whoever negotiated the contract for him, because it is an absurd amount for a DT.

If Suh is worth 19 million on the open market -- What is Watt worth? 25 million? That is just crazy to me to pay Suh that much money.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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A new world record. Step down Randy. The shit in this post is well over 100 courics. The bolded part is what put it over the top.

I'd love to listen to someone explain to me how Suh is a better player than Watt. Not sure what is bullshit about that.

Feel free to take Rob's place.

And actually -- I have to thank you for making me expand my response -- I made a mistake on Suh's stats on the forced fumbles stat.

Watt has forced 12 fumbles in 4 years. Suh has forced 2 fumbles in 5 years. I accidentally listed 11 for Suh, which is the amount of fumbles recovered by Watt, while Suh has 1 in 5 years.
 

Rollingthndr

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JJ Watt signed an extension last year, which doesn't even begin until 2016. So Watt won't be hitting the market until 2022.

And I understand the economics of the game, as do the players. I don't blame Suh at all for leaving to go to Miami for more money. The NFL is a cut throat business and you want to make the most money you can while you still have a job. Doesn't change the fact though, it is a ridiculous contract and Suh has zero chance of living up to what he is being paid.

I posted the stats to show how ridiculously lopsided they are between Suh and Watt. That is why I posted when he first signed -- Suh should be kissing his agent or whoever negotiated the contract for him, because it is an absurd amount for a DT.

If Suh is worth 19 million on the open market -- What is Watt worth? 25 million? That is just crazy to me to pay Suh that much money.


Yeah, more than likely. Watt would fetch around 22-25 million a year. He's simply the best defensive player of this generation. Dude even caught 3 tds's for shits and giggles. You also have to remember that teams salary caps went up 20 million over the last 2 years. It used to only go up a few million every year.
 

jdwills126

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JJ Watt hands down best player at a position of need.

But he is also the face of a franchise and a media personality. The guy has a brand and it doesn't embarrass the team or fans.

Suh is a great player at a position thats not as hard to replace as DE. But he is also a guy that can embarrass himself and get in trouble with the league. I would be concerned / was concerned he would melt down. That step on Rodgers could have been a massive blow going into the playoffs if they did not rescind his suspension.

When it comes to money and long term deals all those things should be factored into the equation. Fans loved Suh's production but hated the stomp, the kick, the low block, the roughing the passer. With JJ Watt you don't worry so much about the BS. Same with McCoy, Atkins, and a few others.

Suh's production will be missed but not the BS and the huge cap hits and endless restructuring it would have caused. Time to resign Levy and rebuild the d-line.
 

Gulf of Brazil

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Yeah, more than likely. Watt would fetch around 22-25 million a year. He's simply the best defensive player of this generation. Dude even caught 3 tds's for shits and giggles. You also have to remember that teams salary caps went up 20 million over the last 2 years. It used to only go up a few million every year.

and the Texans sure as hell don't have cap hits on a QB 17-20M per yr or a WR 20-24M

They can afford Watt.. at this time
 

Rollingthndr

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and the Texans sure as hell don't have cap hits on a QB 17-20M per yr or a WR 20-24M

They can afford Watt.. at this time


That team is a super bowl contender if they had a QB worth paying 17-20 million a season though.
 

Gulf of Brazil

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That team is a super bowl contender if they had a QB worth paying 17-20 million a season though.

it still doesn't take away from the fact that they didn't have three huge contracts all above 15M cap hits last year.
 
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