lets have some legit plans to replace KC

[skinsdad62]

as we all know i am as avid a KC guy is there is on this board . i will always think resigning him and drafting for defense (and a few offensive needs ) is the way to go . but truth is there is a 60% chance it wont happen and a 40 % chance he signs .

so its time to look at options . now the in vogue message the past week by our feeble sports news media is that you can have a game manager qb and with a great defense win games . i believe that but it sure is easier to have an above avg qb or better no doubt as the past 10 or so years have shown

my best plan doesnt involve trading for smith . he is 34 years old , has always been a game manager , and that forces 2 things . 1st and early pick on a qb which draws away and it will cost a 2nd round pick either this year or next and neither is acceptable to me for a rental placeholder smith is 17 mil for one year

next you have a kennum type game manager . well 1st he will cost you , and yes he has played well , however i would need to see more . he had a great defense in houston and failed and his LA days werent anything to write home about . keenum could cost around 20-22 mil a year

bortles is young and could improve but if KC isnt the guy for you he could be the guy . he is a gun slinger but his accuracy will frustrate you . if you got him for 19 mil

AJ Mccarron is a young guy , mostly unproven but you would have to take a gamble on his upside which he hasnt proven he has . it will cost 16-20 mil to find out .( he sty would be my 2nd option ) he would allow you to draft a qb in the 3rd round or so and groom him . we could draft RB /defensive help and he has run a gruden type scheme

next up is bradford , i think he is a 20 mil guy and he has NFL experience . he is the same age as KC (1 yr older ?) he has always been about a high paycheck . now he is a guy who could come in and there wont be much of a drop off . his injury history is a concern so you could have him as a place holder till a 3rd round qb can get up to speed or if you went 1st rounder he is a one year rental


now my top option , sign tedy bridewater . he offers everything AJ does but he is more proven . now the down side is the 25 yr old will be 2 years removed from major injury . however he is young , was a pocket passer and fits into what gruden wants . he has a pretty good TD to INT ratio . i am thinking it will cost 18 mil to find out . it is a gamble but i like gambling with young injury history as opposed to older injury history (bradford )

now for this to work we have to absolutely have to hit on a better then 20% FA rate . if we sign 7 free agents while keeping most of our own at least 3 have to contribute like brown and DJ have . we cant overpay for mcgee/ mcclain type impact or pryor /quick impact

next we would have to get good 2nd year improvement from our draft picks (2 of them ) like we got from fuller and Ionman i think nicholson and sprinkle are my early favorites . (allen is a given ) throw in roullier

then we need 1 starter and one contributor out of the 18 draft with a couple of guys who could come on in 19

if we can get that then we should be able to hopefully keep moving forward .

big year for doug williams

 

[gkekoa]

as we all know i am as avid a KC guy is there is on this board . i will always think resigning him and drafting for defense (and a few offensive needs ) is the way to go . but truth is there is a 60% chance it wont happen and a 40 % chance he signs .

so its time to look at options . now the in vogue message the past week by our feeble sports news media is that you can have a game manager qb and with a great defense win games . i believe that but it sure is easier to have an above avg qb or better no doubt as the past 10 or so years have shown

my best plan doesnt involve trading for smith . he is 34 years old , has always been a game manager , and that forces 2 things . 1st and early pick on a qb which draws away and it will cost a 2nd round pick either this year or next and neither is acceptable to me for a rental placeholder smith is 17 mil for one year

next you have a kennum type game manager . well 1st he will cost you , and yes he has played well , however i would need to see more . he had a great defense in houston and failed and his LA days werent anything to write home about . keenum could cost around 20-22 mil a year

bortles is young and could improve but if KC isnt the guy for you he could be the guy . he is a gun slinger but his accuracy will frustrate you . if you got him for 19 mil

AJ Mccarron is a young guy , mostly unproven but you would have to take a gamble on his upside which he hasnt proven he has . it will cost 16-20 mil to find out .( he sty would be my 2nd option ) he would allow you to draft a qb in the 3rd round or so and groom him . we could draft RB /defensive help and he has run a gruden type scheme

next up is bradford , i think he is a 20 mil guy and he has NFL experience . he is the same age as KC (1 yr older ?) he has always been about a high paycheck . now he is a guy who could come in and there wont be much of a drop off . his injury history is a concern so you could have him as a place holder till a 3rd round qb can get up to speed or if you went 1st rounder he is a one year rental


now my top option , sign tedy bridewater . he offers everything AJ does but he is more proven . now the down side is the 25 yr old will be 2 years removed from major injury . however he is young , was a pocket passer and fits into what gruden wants . he has a pretty good TD to INT ratio . i am thinking it will cost 18 mil to find out . it is a gamble but i like gambling with young injury history as opposed to older injury history (bradford )

now for this to work we have to absolutely have to hit on a better then 20% FA rate . if we sign 7 free agents while keeping most of our own at least 3 have to contribute like brown and DJ have . we cant overpay for mcgee/ mcclain type impact or pryor /quick impact

next we would have to get good 2nd year improvement from our draft picks (2 of them ) like we got from fuller and Ionman i think nicholson and sprinkle are my early favorites . (allen is a given ) throw in roullier

then we need 1 starter and one contributor out of the 18 draft with a couple of guys who could come on in 19

if we can get that then we should be able to hopefully keep moving forward .

big year for doug williams

I go McCarron long before I go Bridgewater.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

I weather keep Kirk but if he leaves skins would have to draft one so I'm looking at Ferguson and Browning and bring in a vet

 

[reptec101]

My God if they end up with Bradford I would barf. Keenum and Bortles benefit from great defenses. Good QB's but really KC and these two guys are one in the same with the slight edge to KC (in my biased opinion)... did anyone just hear what I said,,, virtually the same QB who are both in the championship game. In other words, you can win with kirk if you just filled in some pieces. Unfortunately, will soon have to fill in a QB now also so championship week for us just took a 4 year at best step back. Yea yea,, Eagles only took two years... always an exception to the rule,, it wouldn't surprise me if they only won 8 games next year.

If I had to take a QB out of this list I guess I would choose AJ. Really hasnt had a chance to show if he can be in the same league with Bortles, Keenum and KC. Ya know its funny,,, two,, nah nah,,heck.. one year ago those two QB's Bortles and Keenum were not on anyones radar. Journeymen was all they were... now they're one game away from a super bowl. This league really is all about what have you done for me lately. KC been doing it (stat wise) for three years now... not just one. He just needs some pieces, is all, and we can be in one of these games in two years... I homerly believe that. If they care,, if they really care abut winning they will find away to keep KC and begin the search for those other pieces so we can compete. It's incredible... Not one of these QB's should be part of our discussion,,,, sadly however, they are.

 

[skinz2winz]

I go McCarron long before I go Bridgewater.

Why?

 

[skinz2winz]

My God if they end up with Bradford I would barf. Keenum and Bortles benefit from great defenses. Good QB's but really KC and these two guys are one in the same with the slight edge to KC (in my biased opinion)... did anyone just hear what I said,,, virtually the same QB who are both in the championship game. In other words, you can win with kirk if you just filled in some pieces. Unfortunately, will soon have to fill in a QB now also so championship week for us just took a 4 year at best step back. Yea yea,, Eagles only took two years... always an exception to the rule,, it wouldn't surprise me if they only won 8 games next year.

If I had to take a QB out of this list I guess I would choose AJ. Really hasnt had a chance to show if he can be in the same league with Bortles, Keenum and KC. Ya know its funny,,, two,, nah nah,,heck.. one year ago those two QB's Bortles and Keenum were not on anyones radar. Journeymen was all they were... now they're one game away from a super bowl. This league really is all about what have you done for me lately. KC been doing it (stat wise) for three years now... not just one. He just needs some pieces, is all, and we can be in one of these games in two years... I homerly believe that. If they care,, if they really care abut winning they will find away to keep KC and begin the search for those other pieces so we can compete. It's incredible... Not one of these QB's should be part of our discussion,,,, sadly however, they are.

You mention the Eagles turnaround but what about the Rams 1 year turn around? 1 fuking year!!!!!!! Damn! What its like to have a great coach and "pieces".

 

[Born to run]

As you can tell, I'm a Chargers fan. I would like a new QB so you guys can have Rivers..

 

[Sleepy T]

@skinsdad62 Funny you mention “proven” commodities at QB.., yet you raise holy hell that we didn’t sign KC 2-3 years ago when he was IMO just as unproven as Keenum. Mind you, I am in agreement with that line of thinking.

I like Bridgewater too. I think Borles is a good prospect at the right price. He could be coached up and improve significantly. Or he could be hit and cold for the rest of his career. Depending on how the rest of his season goes for him and Jax, he may not be available.

I like Bradford or Smith on the semi cheap if we could get a young stud QB in the draft. Like you, I have major concerns about their durability.

MCCarron is an interesting guy, because no one has seen much from him. But if he can’t take Dalton’s job, who is mediocre at best. I have major concerns with him being a starter. Fortunately Gruden probably has the inside track on his abilities coming from that Bengals organization and knowing the staff/players.

 

[skinsdad62]

@skinsdad62 Funny you mention “proven” commodities at QB.., yet you raise holy hell that we didn’t sign KC 2-3 years ago when he was IMO just as unproven as Keenum. Mind you, I am in agreement with that line of thinking.

I like Bridgewater too. I think Borles is a good prospect at the right price. He could be coached up and improve significantly. Or he could be hit and cold for the rest of his career. Depending on how the rest of his season goes for him and Jax, he may not be available.

I like Bradford or Smith on the semi cheap if we could get a young stud QB in the draft. Like you, I have major concerns about their durability.

MCCarron is an interesting guy, because no one has seen much from him. But if he can’t take Dalton’s job, who is mediocre at best. I have major concerns with him being a starter. Fortunately Gruden probably has the inside track on his abilities coming from that Bengals organization and knowing the staff/players.

well he was proven , more then any of them but again i gave a decent effort to come up with a plan most couldnt or wouldnt

 

[gkekoa]

Why?

Teddy Bridgewater has had the luxury of playing with a great defense and a top five RB in history. I have watched him play and miss some of the easiest passes ever. He has no experience in this offense and I am completely unimpressed by what he has done.

2014- 15 total TDs, 15turnovers

2015- 17 total TDs, 17 turnovers



AJ McCarron was only given a chance in 2015. He had a 95 passer rating with 6TDs and 3turnovers. As for not beating out Dalton, I don’t think he has ever been given a legit chance.

 

[Sleepy T]

well he was proven , more then any of them but again i gave a decent effort to come up with a plan most couldnt or wouldnt

He was proven prior to the ‘15 season? Which if I recall is when the FO “blew it”. When the great SMGM wanted to extend KC but Dan and Bruce said no. Is that right?? Keenum and Cousins have nearly identical stars through their first 3 seasons, most of which was in back up duty.

And that’s a great, realistic list you put together there sdad. I know this likely won’t be a popular option, and I am trying not to be biased, but what is everyone’s thoughts Tyrod Taylor?? Ceiling is low, floor is high. Nothing flashy, but another good game manager who could be a stop gap.

 

[skinsdad62]

He was proven prior to the ‘15 season? Which if I recall is when the FO “blew it”. When the great SMGM wanted to extend KC but Dan and Bruce said no. Is that right?? Keenum and Cousins have nearly identical stars through their first 3 seasons, most of which was in back up duty.

And that’s a great, realistic list you put together there sdad. I know this likely won’t be a popular option, and I am trying not to be biased, but what is everyone’s thoughts Tyrod Taylor?? Ceiling is low, floor is high. Nothing flashy, but another good game manager who could be a stop gap.

identical stats ? from keenum ? not close better relook that . as far as i can tell tyrod is still under contract but i didnt consider him

my take on taylor is , he is entering his prime , doesnt turn the ball over completes a high % of passes , is mobile . so yes he could be a guy to look at , he would cost 18 mil and would cost us some kind of draft capitol

 

[Sportster 72]

He was proven prior to the ‘15 season? Which if I recall is when the FO “blew it”. When the great SMGM wanted to extend KC but Dan and Bruce said no. Is that right?? Keenum and Cousins have nearly identical stars through their first 3 seasons, most of which was in back up duty.

And that’s a great, realistic list you put together there sdad. I know this likely won’t be a popular option, and I am trying not to be biased, but what is everyone’s thoughts Tyrod Taylor?? Ceiling is low, floor is high. Nothing flashy, but another good game manager who could be a stop gap.

dad and shark are 100% right. They could have signed Cousin's for a lot less money during that 2015 season. Lets be clear here that SM was leading the pack back then to not pay Cousin's too much money. They (the Redsking FO) and many like you were of the mind that he hasn't proven anything. Now million of dollars later he has and look at the mess this turned out to be.

 

[Sportster 72]

Oh BTW my backup plan is to sign AJ Keenum Bortles and build the shit out of the D. All the teams still alive have very good defenses and there is only one very good QB still playing.

 

[Stymietee]

Let's talk,... First of all, @dad, that is one well done piece, Kudos sir

So let's get to it! Re-sign Kirk for the most part is the given, however, the premise of this thread is what are the alternatives if/when that doesn't happen.

Does it not stand to reason that any alternative would necessarily have to be the same age or younger than Kirk? My thinking on that is related to both the ability to grow in Jay Gruden's system and have a bit more or about the same longevity as Cousins would have, if he's going to be here and barring some sort of career ending event. The names thus far includes two (2) players who are Kirk's age and two (2) who are intriguing alternatives.

Everyone, by now, are well versed on my position surrounding A.J. McCarron (he's 27) so, I'm going to focus on the younger ones, Bortles, and Bridgewater.

1. Blake Bortles,

Age 25, 6' 5" tall, 236 pounds is an interesting alternative should Kirk depart. the advantages of this choice currently is his obvious size and youth. Coming out of the U of Central Florida, he has done well as an NFL starter and has his team on the verge of a SB berth. The bad news with this guy despite that envious accomplishment, is the growing suspicion that he's peaked out in Jacksonville. He not a turnover machine, but he rarely wows with his arm in terms of high percent complete passes, he seems to walk that line between good enough and unmet potential. I don't believe that his current front office shares the same perspective as the men in their locker room, who, almost all seem to back him while the front offices are left to sell their version of Joe Flacco in the smallest fan base in the NFL. I don't think that he fits well in Gruden's offense, but coaches, who sometimes are enamored with physical stature and raw talent often believe that they can take both and make something special out of it. That said, I personally, don't think that he's going to be available now that he and his team have reached the Conference Championship. A SB berth definitely seals his stay there.


2. Theodore "Teddy" Bridgewater,

Age 25, 6' 2" tall, 215 pounds, former Pro-Bowl player (2015) and current back-up to Keenum primarily due to a torn ACL, other structural damage, including a dislocation of the knee joint. Another interesting alternative choice but one that comes with how functionally effective he's able to be because of those injuries. To be honest, when I accepted the challenge to come up with a name, his was not included or considered because at the time he was the starter in Minnesota and it looked as if he was locked in there. Bridgewater brings something different to Gruden's offense with his ability to run (now a question mark) and a classic pocket passer history. He owns two NFL records and like Kirk has a number of team records (10) under his belt. He seems to be a really good fit for Gruden's system in that he matches well with what Kirk has done here. Statistically, at every level he's gotten better year to year which, to me means, that he has a very focused work ethic, however this too comes with a couple of consistent hiccups, fumbling and a not very impressive career, TD to Interception ratio. Minnesota did not pick up his fifth year option and he's a free agent. His cost might be very cap friendly as it will be his second contract barring a bidding war. From what I've been able to study on him, outside of the post injury question, I could see Bruce Allen flipping a coin to decide between McCarron and Bridgewater, where, in either case, there is, no wrong result.

SN: Case Keenum has the job in Minnesota, he's there for a while and because of this season's performance he'll have to fight off Sam Bradford to stay the starter next year.

 

[Sportster 72]

Note about Jacksonville. Everyone keeps calling them the smallest NFL market. 11 Teams in both total team attendance and home attendance are listed below Jacksonville. New England is only two spots higher in home attendance with 12,600 more fans or a little over 1,000 fans per game ahead in home attendance. Sometimes these labels get legs that never go away and folks just roll with it. Tampa has a lower fan attendance than Jacksonville almost every year.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Um wouldn't the qbs that you guys are discussing entertain offers from den,jets,cards, you can say we have a backup plan but those teams have one point we have to draft a qb if Kirk leaves colt
can hold the fort he is healthy and he has been in are system Point is could colt be the next keenum and Alex Smith Etc etc

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

COLT IS KEENUM

 

[SoCalWizFan]

He was proven prior to the ‘15 season? Which if I recall is when the FO “blew it”. When the great SMGM wanted to extend KC but Dan and Bruce said no. Is that right?? Keenum and Cousins have nearly identical stars through their first 3 seasons, most of which was in back up duty.

And that’s a great, realistic list you put together there sdad. I know this likely won’t be a popular option, and I am trying not to be biased, but what is everyone’s thoughts Tyrod Taylor?? Ceiling is low, floor is high. Nothing flashy, but another good game manager who could be a stop gap.

Teddy Bridgewater

Are you stating that Bridgewater was proven in 2014? I sure hope that is not what you are stating. As gke alluded to Bridgewater's stats are avg or worse & I really don't recall any other qualities that made him that great. He was like some of the current QBs having success in the playoffs - he was a beneficiary of players around him. Add 2 years of non-play & potential injury concerns & I would definitely pass on this guy & go with several of the others on that list (again - would rather retain Cousins).

 

[SoCalWizFan]

COLT IS KEENUM

That remains to be seen. Colt's only significant playing time were in his first 2 seasons when he was w/ the Browns. His stats were pretty bad & almost all of those games were losses for the Browns. You can pretty much say the same for Keenum outside of this season.

However - when given the chance with a stellar Vikings team Keenum has shined & put up good numbers as well as guiding the team to wins. You can't just assume that at this stage in his career that McCoy will do the same. He might, but it is far from a given & when given a chance a few seasons ago he did well in say one game but appeared to not have sustainable talent.