Kenley Jansen "Maybe we have to go on strike"

[navamind]

so he's pissed that JD Martinez hasn't been moved yet? Because that's the only player I really can think of 'not being moved"

The top free agents this year were more "really good" than "great" IMO and even the best free agents have question marks. Martinez was the best hitter available, but he comes with defensive issues and he's missed a fair amount of time. Hosmer's been either good or replacement level with no inbetween. Darvish is coming off his first healthy season after missing all of 2015 and good chunks of 2014 and 2016 to injury. Lorenzo Cain was one of the best players in the AL over the last 3-4 years, but he's going to be 32 soon and it remains to be seen how he'll age. It probably doesn't help that some of those players have certain demands (Martinez doesn't want to DH, but some teams like the Sox have a crowded outfield, Hosmer doesn't seem to want to be on a rebuilding team, etc.)

Not to mention teams probably don't value veterans as much as they used to and would rather play younger talent than pay for "veteran experience".

 

[navamind]

Brandon Moss on the offseason, CBA

 

[Howie115]

The top free agents this year were more "really good" than "great" IMO and even the best free agents have question marks. Martinez was the best hitter available, but he comes with defensive issues and he's missed a fair amount of time. Hosmer's been either good or replacement level with no inbetween. Darvish is coming off his first healthy season after missing all of 2015 and good chunks of 2014 and 2016 to injury. Lorenzo Cain was one of the best players in the AL over the last 3-4 years, but he's going to be 32 soon and it remains to be seen how he'll age. It probably doesn't help that some of those players have certain demands (Martinez doesn't want to DH, but some teams like the Sox have a crowded outfield, Hosmer doesn't seem to want to be on a rebuilding team, etc.)

Corner outfielders with defensive issues who don't want to DH, even guys who can mash like JD, are always going to make teams think twice before offering up the sun, moon and stars.

 

[navamind]

Corner outfielders with defensive issues who don't want to DH, even guys who can mash like JD, are always going to make teams think twice before offering up the sun, moon and stars.

absolutely. I'd love to have his bat on the Red Sox, but do they really want to break up a strong defensive outfield by potentially moving JBJ? Would the offensive improvement be worth the downgrade defensively? I imagine the Sox front office are thinking about how much that could hurt their run prevention.

 

[The Q]

absolutely. I'd love to have his bat on the Red Sox, but do they really want to break up a strong defensive outfield by potentially moving JBJ? Would the offensive improvement be worth the downgrade defensively? I imagine the Sox front office are thinking about how much that could hurt their run prevention.

Especially when the infield d isn’t that good.

 

[navamind]

Especially when the infield d isn’t that good.

Agreed. It remains to be seen whether Devers will stay at 3rd long term and I thought Moreland was pretty meh defensively. Pedroia's still got a good glove, but even that looks like it's regressed a little and it's hard to have much confidence in him staying off the DL. I hope Lin can take over the utility role, he should have a lot of defensive versatility.

 

[The Q]

Agreed. It remains to be seen whether Devers will stay at 3rd long term and I thought Moreland was pretty meh defensively. Pedroia's still got a good glove, but even that looks like it's regressed a little and it's hard to have much confidence in him staying off the DL. I hope Lin can take over the utility role, he should have a lot of defensive versatility.

Yes. Pedroia's injuries hurt his D.

Devers is a 1B.

Hanley is....yeah.....

Bogey is hit or miss based on the metrics. But not surprised some don't like him.

 

[JohnU]

I think more than anything, it's a matter of MLB teams not wanting to plug up their entire payroll with league average or worse players. There comes a point when the bad teams are stuck with mediocre players and won't ever get better to the point where they CAN improve through deals and signings.
You can't expect the small market guys to keep coughing up money that prevents them from signing franchise guys.
I see his point but I don't agree with it. The franchises have to have some ability to break out of the rut. THey spent years being bad, told that the way to improve was to draft better -- and when they did, crappy ass Adam Rosales and Kevin Quackenbush end up on the depth chart anyhow.
I mean, seriously ... it is time they stopped paying guys to hit .208 and pitchers who have ERAs of 6.93.

 

[The Q]

I think more than anything, it's a matter of MLB teams not wanting to plug up their entire payroll with league average or worse players. There comes a point when the bad teams are stuck with mediocre players and won't ever get better to the point where they CAN improve through deals and signings.
You can't expect the small market guys to keep coughing up money that prevents them from signing franchise guys.
I see his point but I don't agree with it. The franchises have to have some ability to break out of the rut. THey spent years being bad, told that the way to improve was to draft better -- and when they did, crappy ass Adam Rosales and Kevin Quackenbush end up on the depth chart anyhow.
I mean, seriously ... it is time they stopped paying guys to hit .208 and pitchers who have ERAs of 6.93.

It's cheater than buying real players.

Which means the owners can have a bad team and still turn a profit.

 

[calsnowskier]

That’s why the NEXT CBA needs a floor.

That has to put a crimp in the “tanking” strategy.

 

[The Q]

That’s why the NEXT CBA needs a floor.

That has to put a crimp in the “tanking” strategy.

The things needed to solve all this BS are simple.

No draft caps

50/50 on gameday revenue sharing

4 years to FA, no arbitration, but with a raised starting salary structure and built in system for systemic raises each of the 4 years

A spending floor which includes revenue sharing dollars (some teams are literally spending less on payroll than the money they get before selling a single ticket).

That's just off the top of my head.

 

[JohnU]

That’s why the NEXT CBA needs a floor.

That has to put a crimp in the “tanking” strategy.

CO Finley wanted to dump all his players and Bowie Kuhn, using authority that was implied but never challenged, essentially told him to go down the tubes on his own.

I don't think the owners are as inclined to abdicate that sort of authority to their boss now since the sport is about billions of dollars now, not personalities.

Kuhn would never have let the Miami ownership dismantle that team.

 

[The Q]

CO Finley wanted to dump all his players and Bowie Kuhn, using authority that was implied but never challenged, essentially told him to go down the tubes on his own.

I don't think the owners are as inclined to abdicate that sort of authority to their boss now since the sport is about billions of dollars now, not personalities.

Kuhn would never have let the Miami ownership dismantle that team.

They sold the players for cash.

Big difference.

 

[DrewScott]

Real question, not trying to be a smartass. Let's say that players went on strike and fans finally had enough and refused to attend any games when the players came back. Zero fans in any stadiums for months. How "guaranteed" are the players contracts? Can a major league team declare bankruptcy to get out of paying player salaries?

 

[calsnowskier]

The things needed to solve all this BS are simple.

No draft caps

50/50 on gameday revenue sharing

4 years to FA, no arbitration, but with a raised starting salary structure and built in system for systemic raises each of the 4 years

A spending floor which includes revenue sharing dollars (some teams are literally spending less on payroll than the money they get before selling a single ticket).

That's just off the top of my head.

What are you giving to the owners there? That is a complete r*pe job for the owners.

 

[The Q]

Real question, not trying to be a smartass. Let's say that players went on strike and fans finally had enough and refused to attend any games when the players came back. Zero fans in any stadiums for months. How "guaranteed" are the players contracts? Can a major league team declare bankruptcy to get out of paying player salaries?

I'm not a bankruptcy attorney, but...I think they could.

But the ones who own their own cable company would have a problem as they'd probably have to sell off their ownership stake in that to pay off as much of salaries as possible.

 

[The Q]

What are you giving to the owners there? That is a complete r*pe job for the owners.

the owners are so far ahead this doesn't even make it even.

 

[calsnowskier]

Real question, not trying to be a smartass. Let's say that players went on strike and fans finally had enough and refused to attend any games when the players came back. Zero fans in any stadiums for months. How "guaranteed" are the players contracts? Can a major league team declare bankruptcy to get out of paying player salaries?

I believe that the contracts are pretty iron clad. As long as the players show up, they get paid, whether a game is played or not. So basically, a player can walk away, but the teams can’t (the player cannot play pro baseball elsewhere, though, for the life of the contract).

I think MLB/team would have to declare bankruptcy to avoid the contract, but I am not sure that the teams are individual entities enough to individually declare. The league would need to declare.

I think.

 

[calsnowskier]

the owners are so far ahead this doesn't even make it even.

Gtfo with fair. This is a negotiation. The owners wouldn’t do anything out of the goodness of their hearts.

Currently there is no floor. They also “own” the players for 3(?) years before 4 years of arb. No way would it go from 7 years of control to 4 without dropping the cap tp about 150M

In other words...

It ain’t happening. The owners would sac multiple seasons before giving in on your proposal.

 

[The Q]

Gtfo with fair. This is a negotiation. The owners wouldn’t do anything out of the goodness of their hearts.

Currently there is no floor. They also “own” the players for 3(?) years before 4 years of arb. No way would it go from 7 years of control to 4 without dropping the cap tp about 150M

In other words...

It ain’t happening. The owners would sac multiple seasons before giving in on your proposal.

You’d get an extension of the cba. Longer term.

Which was what manfred said they’d be willing to amend some terms with a longer term.