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July 1st is right around the corner

Likewall32

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Nieto is a 4th liner who will get you 10 goals and 20+ points while playing a solid defensive game and can effectively take taxing PK minutes from the older guys like Pavelski and Marleau. What else could you ask for for $700k?


One of the rare times we are in 1000000000% agreement
 

sjrules99

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Nieto is a 4th liner who will get you 10 goals and 20+ points while playing a solid defensive game and can effectively take taxing PK minutes from the older guys like Pavelski and Marleau. What else could you ask for for $700k?

Yep, and at just 23 years old. I don't know how great he is defensively, particularly in a 4th line limited role, but for 700k, there is literally no downside I can see. He is a very moveable asset at any time as many other teams would love a guy who can consistently score 10 goals and 25 pts with speed and a 700k price tag with RFA status after that. Wingels, on the other hand, was very similar last year and has shown a little more scoring pop and physicality, but he costs more than 3x more at 28 years old and is a UFA after next year. One of those makes sense to keep for the long term potential and cost per production ratio, the other seems far more expendable at this moment.

Also, it's important to keep as many 20-25 year olds with top 9 potential (he certainly has that potential even if he hasnt gotten there consistently yet) as possible because ward jumbo and patty are all 35+ and are gunna be gone soon (or too old to play a lead role, or injured) and the depth guys like karlsson, tierney, donkey, boedker, hertl, meier, and cooch (and hopefully goldobin, sorenson, or some of the other prospects) are gunna be the key guys to pick up the torch and run. Wingels is not old at 28 years old, but he's not super young either, and wont get too cheap. Nieto on the other hand is young, has shown flashes of top 9 potential, and if he manages to take some strides this year, he could become a longer term option in the top 9. 3 seasons of experience and age 23 are not usually the peak of a guy's career, so its nice the sharks can be patient with him and see what he can prove, basically buying time with him for a rock bottom price.
 

sjrules99

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funny side note: my twosome today for golf randomly just got paired with Dan Boyle and his neighbor. Lovely round of golf with Dan! he's a good golfer, and a very gentlemanly guy. Very pleasant, though he kinda sent vibes that he wasnt interested in talking about hockey or sharing much. he did say that he is unofficially retired and has moved back to the area. he also said that Alain Vigneoult is not very well liked in NY by several players, so there sounds like there might be some strife in the big city.

I asked him about playing for torts and his cup, and he said that he's completely insane but the 2004 tampa cup team worked because the assistant coach was the opposite, so the balance was maintained (kinda good cop-bad cop almost). Made me think about assistant coaches more and the importance of the right assistant coaches which rarely gets talked about. Maybe a Luke Walton gets overlooked if Kerr doesnt get hurt. Assistant coaches obviously matter, so maybe boughner and spott deserve a little love for last year as well...
 

Cbrower91

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I wonder how nasty a line of Bodeker Couture Donskoi is going to be
 

sjrules99

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I wonder how nasty a line of Bodeker Couture Donskoi is going to be

No doubt it's a good one. I worry about Boedker's defensive game, but with cooch and donkey, who are both solid in their own end, it should be fine. I mean its hard to key on them when pavs-jumbo-hertl are coming at you and then Meier-Marleau-Ward are the third line, and even Tierney-karlsson-Wingels can matchup well against any 4th line, with a speedy Nieto ready to fill in anywhere. And all that's not including the potential guys like Goldobin or anyone else with potential making a leap.

I mean, it's gunna be really really hard to figure out matchups when the sharks can mix and match three high scoring, fast forward lines with elite players on each one, and then a talented 4th line to boot.

I am most interested to see what martin has left in the tank and what Schlemko brings to the sharks. I still see the D beyond braun, pickles, and burns as the biggest question mark going into the year. If Schlemko is really solid, that would be real nice, and would really make the sharks about as impenetrable as any team in the league. Dillon is still a mess, so I would love to see dougie flip him for an upgrade that can produce at both ends. That could be done mid-year as needed of course as they are armed with lots of trading chips.

Gunna be an interesting year, barring injuries...
 

Cmon_WTF

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I wonder how nasty a line of Bodeker Couture Donskoi is going to be

On paper it looks good but Boedkers possession stats concern me a bit. He doesn't drive possession as much as someone with his speed should. Hopefully moving from a primary to secondary role on offense and being paired with better possession players like Couture and Donskoi will help. If he's paired with those two he will have shoot more. Can't have Couture as the only scoring threat.
 

sjrules99

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On paper it looks good but Boedkers possession stats concern me a bit. He doesn't drive possession as much as someone with his speed should. Hopefully moving from a primary to secondary role on offense and being paired with better possession players like Couture and Donskoi will help. If he's paired with those two he will have shoot more. Can't have Couture as the only scoring threat.

Boedker will be fine. he's never shown himself to be a huge scorer, even in Jr's, but obviously cooch can be good for 30+ and Donkey could go for 20 even though he is a bit more of a passer. Still Boedker had 19 last year, so 20 is right in line with expectations.

Here is my expected goals as a line:

Jumbo (15) - pavs (35) - hertl (25) = 75 goals (last year: 19+38+21 = 78)
Donskoi (20) - Cooch (30) - Boedker (20) = 70 goals (last year: 11+15+19 = 45)
patty (20) - Meier (15) - Ward (20) = 55 goals (last year: 25+neito's 8+21 = 54)
tierney (10) - karlsson (10) - Wingels/nieto (10) = 30 goals (last year(7+10+7 = 24)
Total: 230 goals (last year: 201)

Burns (15) - martin (5) = 20 (last year: 27+3 = 30)
Vlasic (6) - Braun (4) = 10 (8+4 = 12)
Dillon (5) - Schlemko (5) = 10 (2+6 = 8)
total: 40 goals (last year: 50)

All together, that would be 270 goals or roughly 3.29 goals/game (33 more than last year). That would be #1 in the NHL based on last year's season. Needless to say, that's optimistic especially for donkey and Ward. it's also optimistic for cooch to put in 30 or the bottom line to pot 30 or meier to step in on the 3rd line and put in 15 or ward to repeat his 20. that said, the estimate for jumbo and patty is on the lower end, and pavs could go for 40 too. injuries would also change this of course, as cooch only had 15 last year due to injury. That said, the estimates seem reasonable to me, and those 33 goals easily could come from a healthy cooch and adding boedker and meier over spaling and zubris.
 
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Cmon_WTF

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Donskoi has a terrible shot. It's weak and not very accurate. He is also a pass first player. I wouldn't count on him for more than 15 goals. Boedker has a strong shot but doesn't use it very often. Especially at even strength. To this point in his career Boedker has not been a good ES scorer and he's not going to see the grade A PP minutes he's been getting.
 

caliraftdude

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I think the biggest problem as fans is that we think it's easy when you look at how other players have done. But what's get lost is that Kane/Toews are Marleau/Thornton if they don't have Keith,seabrook, hossa, sharp, brain Campbell, saad. They've had great supporting cast and this is first time Marleau and Thornton have had atleast a good one and they made it to the finals

That's a fair point - I don't presume that its "easy" and I 100% believe that supporting cast has a lot to do with making the finals and succeeding there. In fact, this Sharks team is a great example of that having more depth and quality on the bottom two lines of forwards and bottom line of defense than in previous years... maybe with the exception of the Ricci, Thornton, Sunny, Nolan, Damphouse, etc.. years.

I just vividly remember goose eggs in key moments when we needed our top guys most.
 

sjrules99

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That's a fair point - I don't presume that its "easy" and I 100% believe that supporting cast has a lot to do with making the finals and succeeding there. In fact, this Sharks team is a great example of that having more depth and quality on the bottom two lines of forwards and bottom line of defense than in previous years... maybe with the exception of the Ricci, Thornton, Sunny, Nolan, Damphouse, etc.. years.

I just vividly remember goose eggs in key moments when we needed our top guys most.

Yeah, kane/toews have a great supporting cast but they are also big in the big moments and they are the team's best players. Jumbo and patty, at least year, were definitely not the team's best players. Jumbo was definitley in the top 3 or 4, but patty was far lower. Pavs, cooch, Burns, and jones carried the team to the finals last year. Contributions from donkey, ward, and of course the big two were also key, but it was not the big two that carried the team. when the big two were counted on to carry, they historically fell flat. And actually, in the finals, they did. Cooch has a great finals, and burns did too. Jones was also awesome. Jumbo had just 3 assists and a -4. patty had just 1 point. thats a combined 4 pts in finals 12 games. As much as the depth tried, if the big two were better in the finals, they might well have won.

My point is that unlike malkin/crosby or kane/toews, patty/jumbo were not good enoguh in clutch moments in the past, and they remain not good enough to be counted on. They are great complementary players, as they were last year, but they can't be your go-to guys. They are great, but they arent in the kane/toews or crosby/malkin league.
 
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