It Donned on me at the Game........

[Slaton10]

Well..as I sat in the Monsoon at M&T Bank Stadium...watching a horrific ballbame...at least if you were in Blue and Gold...(MY wife enjoyed every minute of it!)...I noticed many things but there was something significant in my minds eye...and what I saw was shocking and concerning!...and this just didn't start with Holgorsen...it started with Stewart and has metastisized under Holgerson...

As many know I was a supporter of Rich and what he did for the program...and still am for that matter...IMHO what Rich did defined what the DNA was of the team....he beleived in playing fast..and I am not speaking to the play calling perse...he beleived in skinnied down linemen who could move their feet...he beleived in a high tempo practice so he could take advantage of wearing down teams in the fourth quarter...he beleived in playing physical....he built an "SEC" type football team...and we ALL liked it!..

Saturday I was in disbeleif...Maryland beat Wv because they were the faster of the two teams on both sides of the ball...and they were more physical...say for Darwin Cook who still remembers how to hit a guy...that personal foul on him BTW was total BS...I digress.....sorry........

Bill Stewart tried to get bigger in the trenches and go back to a more Don Nehlen type team.because that is what he knew......Holgy is putting together a BIG 12 type team because thats what he knows....with all of the coaching changes the team has gotten away from what made them good..a team nobody wanted to play..........honestly....I am no longer sure what the short term future holds.....WVUDAD may be right....Holgy may not be the right guy for this program....

 

[DCWV4life]

Only thing I will say was he was right for it when we still played in the BE, we are taking lumps in our new conference and breaking in all new starters On offense. We will probably cut him loose before we find out if he can be long term-- even nick Saban looked lost when he first came to one of the big conf's...we need to build a program not break it down every couple of years..IMO

 

[bbwvfan]

There are a few things that concern me with this year's team, and it goes back to last year as well.

I don't like the fact that our offensive line has no mean streak in them. I don't like the fact that they seem to fold when they get punched.

Last year, the line was a pretty veteran group, yet they had no nasty in them. I watched them get destroyed in game after game. Hell... TT, KSU, TCU and SU were able to blow them up with just a rush of 3-4 down linemen.

In both the W&M and GSU games, you could see significant pressure applied at times with just a 3-4 man rush.

The other disturbing thing was seeing Dana without headset on at the end of the game... simply shaking his head as one play after another was blown up because of poor line play.

Leadership and accountability matter. Things need to change. If the kids don't respond to him... what do you do?

I believe in giving him more time... so I am on-board with DC. But, this year may turn out a lot worse than I first expected.

I have to lower my expectations...

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Slaton10 good to see you here.

I see us hitting lows this year that we have not seen in a long time. One year ago we were in the top 10. since then, we have lost 8 of 12. We used to be a very good team and we have fell off a cliff.

WVUDAD may very well be right about Holgerson. Saturday, he had the look of a quitter, little emotion and that seemed to translate to the the offense. When your'e down 30-0 at least take some shots downfield. We played them like Georgia State played us not wanting to get beaten too badly.

After the Colorado game a few years ago, I came to the realization that Stewart was not the guy who would bring us back. After this game, I have come to the same realization with Holgerson.

Patterson and Gibson have been doing well with the defense and the corners look great this year. If we had last years offense, we could really be a contender. I was really hoping that Ron Crook would get the OL together but that has not happened.

With an 11 million buyout, looks like we are stuck with Holgerson for a while. If we are to win with him, he will need to change the way he coaches. He needs to be more hands on with the offense, QB and WRs and delegate some of his HC management duties to others. Patterson has the D playing well. DeFo is capable of coaching an ST unit. What we need is an offensive coordinator!

All we can do now is hope and wait that Holgs gets his act together or his contract expires.

 

[Slaton10]

I agree with all of the comments....

I am not for jettisoning Holgy right now....I agree one of the things that you have to accept and is reality that this program has been unstable for 5 years now and the pogram needs some stability at the HC position for sure..Think about it this MAJOR program has gone through now 3 HC's and too many Asst. Coaches to count...BBW kind of hit it on the head really...Outside the revolvinging door at HC setting the team back the biggest may be the team being on its 5th or 6th ( I've lost count) Offensive Line coach in 10 years.......how do you build a continuity?...how do you recruit for that matter when another school can point to just that fact when going after a next level lineman.....

I think DCW mentioned Holgy had no energy...I would disagree....I had the strangest seats I was first row corner end zone right on the field on the Wv side and I could see him clearly..he many a meltdown going on over there....was that helping......not so sure...LOL!!..

The comment made about the defense...it looked better!..it looked simple!!...for real this time!!!...LOL!!...simple safety keys....easy reads and responsiblities....this Diggs kid has the same tools as Tavon Austin and they took him out of the game...Ismail Banks struggled a bit with Long...but the field got so sloppy the Offense took advantage...not sure why Wv couldn't do the same thing.......

Some other noticable things from the play calling side.....Wv used absolutely no motion..found that odd...and they have completely have gotten away from the Diamond formation for some reason....what ever happened to the pooch pass with the reciever in motion that Austin terrorized Clemson with??...seems as though Holgy has gotten away from staple formations and plays for some reason....strange...

 

[JIMKOON]

But can we endure another two seasons of this stuff? IMO, why not give DH what he is known for, the ability as a creative offensive coordinator? We need a man of strong organizing capability as head coach, and, sadly, DH is sorely lacking, and we cannot wait for him to get there, not without sinking into a deep well of losses and diminished respect in college football.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Good to hear that Holgy was showing emotion. On TV, he was just standing there wet and dejected.

Must agree with Slaton on the play calling. No Diamond, no jet sweeps and we never seemed to test anything downfield. If we can't trust Ford to throw it downfield, Millard or Childress should be in there. Maybe the Fairmont kid should get a chance. At least he can run.

 

[bbwvfan]

Just read a tweet stating after review of Maryland game film, WVU's coaches gave the offensive line its lowest grade in the history of doing so.

Not a comforting thought going forward...

 

[DCWV4life]

Program won't die off not matter how bad this season gets and won't end with DH as coach....no reason for such absolutes.

What I see is a young team making young mistakes...plain and simple. We have seen this offensive system work under this head coach for the last two seasons. We, as stated by many of you many times, cannot reload like the big boys just yet. We lost 96% percent of our offense, is it really that big of a surprise we are struggling? We screamed for him to fix the defense and he made the moves that so far has seemed to work. He will fix this offense. He has been here for two seasons and we have had to winning seasons, totally irrational to fire a first time head coach or even bring it up in game 4 of his third season with all the transitions we have had to make.

IMO we just sit back and take our lumps this season...Hopefully have at least one good signature win by the end of the season.....not to crap on this season but look how many returners we will have on both sides of the ball next year. I still think we have winnable games on this schedule. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Slaton10]

Program won't die off not matter how bad this season gets and won't end with DH as coach....no reason for such absolutes.

What I see is a young team making young mistakes...plain and simple. We have seen this offensive system work under this head coach for the last two seasons. We, as stated by many of you many times, cannot reload like the big boys just yet. We lost 96% percent of our offense, is it really that big of a surprise we are struggling? We screamed for him to fix the defense and he made the moves that so far has seemed to work. He will fix this offense. He has been here for two seasons and we have had to winning seasons, totally irrational to fire a first time head coach or even bring it up in game 4 of his third season with all the transitions we have had to make.

IMO we just sit back and take our lumps this season...Hopefully have at least one good signature win by the end of the season.....not to crap on this season but look how many returners we will have on both sides of the ball next year. I still think we have winnable games on this schedule. That's my 2 cents.

I think DCW is pretty much spot on...I think the only thing that I would challenge is the ability of any of the QB's or lack there of...is reputation as well as Dawson's are their ability to build a QB...seems like these kids are waaaay behind for some reason....I didn't expect a Geno Smith re-incarnation...but I thought they would be able to "manage' the position....Childress and Millard: This isn't their first year in the program.........

 

[DCWV4life]

Childress and Millard: This isn't their first year in the program.........

A lot of difference between running it in practice and a game...I thought they would be further along as well. Hopefully by game seven he starts we see him grow up, game is a little fast for him right now.

 

[JIMKOON]

While I don't disagree with everything DC and Slaton are saying, the Big 12 isn't gonna sit back for long when it comes to recruiting, especially Texas and Oklahoma, for they recruit all year long. They have fulltime scouts in every high school from sea to shining sea. Do you think they are not already telling prospects that WVU don't have it? I can vouch for that going on, right now, and that is just my point. How long to we play the waiting game on this coach not knowing how to be a head coach?

 

[WVUDAD]

Guys how much has Holgorsen turned over to Dawson on the offense? How many plays is Holgorsen calling? There seems to be a LOT different play calling between the first six games last year and the games played since then. What concerns me is just what you said about recruiting, 10 wins in 2011, 7 wins in 2012, MAYBE 4 wins this year, it will be very easy for a competing coach to tell kids that WVU has a declining program and will be changing coaches soon. To the comments about revolving door of coaches, I hate to see a guy lose his job, but there are coaches on the staff who are ineffective, so Id just as soon they were gone, Efore is on top of that list. I want to see how the team progresses this year, whether there is any improvement, or do they stagnate like last year. Holgorsen needs to learn and learn fast, and if a change is to be made, Luck needs to find a PROVEN HEAD coach, WVU is not a MAC team where guys should be learning the job.

 

[DCWV4life]

Do you think they are not already telling prospects that WVU don't have it?

This has been said about us for years, whether we have it or don't have it that is the game of recruiting..

 

[DCWV4life]

I guess I do not understand the "WVU is not a MAC school we can't wait for a coch to learn" statement...this guy has not even had a losing season yet???....how about some other schools...VATech with Beamer, 3 of his first 4 seasons were losing...Bill Snyder one of the most respected coaches in football had two winning seasons in his first 6. Others on the list....

There is nothing wrong with being patient when you have seen what a coach can do with his guys in place, this offense can work and we have seen it. Hell we have fans wanting this guy gone for the color shirt he wears. What big time head coach is going to want to have to face that kind of lunacy?

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Luck needs to find a PROVEN HEAD coach, WVU is not a MAC team where guys should be learning the job.

Holgorsen is the first HC WVU has had with no prior experience since... *gulp* Frank Cignetti...

 

[DCWV4life]

Holgorsen is the first HC WVU has had with no prior experience since... *gulp* Frank Cignetti...

Lmao I was to young for this, but it must have been a great time the way everyone describes it.

 

[DCWV4life]

I am not saying the mindset of having aguy with exp come in over a guy with just coordinator exp, but in the unstable world of college football there are no absolutes in the way of success ...look at some of our fellow conf members...Bob Stoops and Bill Snyder were never HC before. Texas Tech just hired the second youngest coach in football 4-0 start. Mike Gundy was never a HC and he was a upset away from playing for the NC also after going 4-7,7-6,7-6 his first three years. All this means nothing just saying it can work.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

DC, Cignetti was cost by his inexperience. He was a pretty good recruiter and later turned out to be a good head coach. I'm not sure if he ever would have been good on the D1 level, but he does have a couple of D2 championships under his belt now. *shrugs* He did leave Don Nehlen with enough talent to immediately turn the program around. I guess it's just one of things you always wonder about, going from Bowden to Cignetti and then Nehlen.

 

[DCWV4life]

I am not saying the mindset of having aguy with exp come in over a guy with just coordinator exp is wrong, but in the unstable world of college football there are no absolutes in the way of success ...look at some of our fellow conf members...Bob Stoops and Bill Snyder were never HC before. Texas Tech just hired the second youngest coach in football 4-0 start. Mike Gundy was never a HC and he was a upset away from playing for the NC also after going 4-7,7-6,7-6 his first three years. All this means nothing just saying it can work.