If Josh Allen falls to #13

[Fountain City Blues]

IMO Allen ahs huge upside. He is not ready to play Week1 but he doens have to with our team. that is why the pick makes so much sense.

Maybe, but as I said, how likely is he to access that upside? Could any coach develop him to that point? Even with a year to sit? I am skeptical. Those are not unimportant discussions to have. You are vastly more likely to get a Logan Thomas or Kyle Boller than an Aaron Rodgers, jmo.

 

[Sharkinva]

Payne is a poor mans Allen. Vea fits but only a 2 down player. We can always get a fat boy. I don't see the issue with the two macboys, allen, ionman, and Lanier. By drafting Allen we have long term stability at QB.

First off, Allen got hurt last year so we have no idea what he will be like when he gets back.

But lets assume he will be 100%. Still think getting another stud on the line serves us better than drafting a QB who shouldnt even see the field for 3-4 years. So the only think drafting Allen would do is create more drama at the QB position. Well and create buzz because we drafted a "elite talent" at QB.

If they were hoping Allen would be there at all then Smith should not have been traded for. You dont burn a first rounder on a guy that will only see the field if the guy you just committed to for the next 3+ years fails.

 

[deanpet21]

First off, Allen got hurt last year so we have no idea what he will be like when he gets back.

But lets assume he will be 100%. Still think getting another stud on the line serves us better than drafting a QB who shouldnt even see the field for 3-4 years. So the only think drafting Allen would do is create more drama at the QB position. Well and create buzz because we drafted a "elite talent" at QB.

If they were hoping Allen would be there at all then Smith should not have been traded for. You dont burn a first rounder on a guy that will only see the field if the guy you just committed to for the next 3+ years fails.

I don't think Allen will be there but if he is its too good too pass up. Smiths job is not in jeopardy if we draft him. Smith gets 2 full seasons before we even talk about Allen. Its a smart move. Look at the Giants they will take a qb high but Eli is probably going to play at least one more year. Eli makes big money. The Smith move was made b/c we knew we were going to lose KC and the top 4 QB's should be gone by pick #13. Its not a bad thing to have a talent QB on a cheap 5 year deal b/c of being a 1st round pick.

Allen is going to be 100% for camp I don't know where that came from. I don't see the big deal in Payne. Vea yes b/c of the nose position but still only a 2 down player. My top 2 defensive guys right now are Smith and James. Ridley at WR for #13 is interesting b/c he is a burner and we need that. I cant see the Bears passing on him though.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't think Allen will be there but if he is its too good too pass up. Smiths job is not in jeopardy if we draft him. Smith gets 2 full seasons before we even talk about Allen. Its a smart move. Look at the Giants they will take a qb high but Eli is probably going to play at least one more year. Eli makes big money. The Smith move was made b/c we knew we were going to lose KC and the top 4 QB's should be gone by pick #13. Its not a bad thing to have a talent QB on a cheap 5 year deal b/c of being a 1st round pick.

Allen is going to be 100% for camp I don't know where that came from. I don't see the big deal in Payne. Vea yes b/c of the nose position but still only a 2 down player. My top 2 defensive guys right now are Smith and James. Ridley at WR for #13 is interesting b/c he is a burner and we need that. I cant see the Bears passing on him though.

1. Payne is a three down player and its debatable as to which is better between him and Vea.
2. You simply dont use a first round pick on a guy you dont expect to play for 2-3 years at the earliest when you are an 8-8 team.

3. The Giants KNOW Eli is one and at most two years way from being done. Releasing him would actually HELP their cap. On the flip. if Smith is getting $71M guaranteed, assuming we gave him NO new money in year one (which I highly doubt) that means we have to account for $54M in guaranteed money. So lets say that $54M is over the four years of hes extension. thats $13.5M a year. So even if Smith played 2018, 2019 and 2020, that would still leave $27M in dead money if we moved on from him.

Sorry dude, we are committed to Smith, which means taking Allen would be a non starter.

 

[deanpet21]

1. Payne is a three down player and its debatable as to which is better between him and Vea.
2. You simply dont use a first round pick on a guy you dont expect to play for 2-3 years at the earliest when you are an 8-8 team.

3. The Giants KNOW Eli is one and at most two years way from being done. Releasing him would actually HELP their cap. On the flip. if Smith is getting $71M guaranteed, assuming we gave him NO new money in year one (which I highly doubt) that means we have to account for $54M in guaranteed money. So lets say that $54M is over the four years of hes extension. thats $13.5M a year. So even if Smith played 2018, 2019 and 2020, that would still leave $27M in dead money if we moved on from him.

Sorry dude, we are committed to Smith, which means taking Allen would be a non starter.

1.) I don't think Payne is much of a pass rusher. Typically those guys don't go high in round 1. Allen and Payne are the same player but Allen has pass rushing tools. I think Vea will go over Payne especially on our team. You can make a case for Vea for us not Payne.

2) the Packers did it with Rodgers. When its a qb its always good to have talent even as a backup.

3. We don't know how the Smith deal works out. The 54mg money could be paid out in years 1,2,3 with a bailout in year 4. That 71mg is not fully g against the cap. ISnt it 54?

 

[countryroads316]

Vea absolutely should be the pick he is a beast and he is able to stay on the field all 3 downs

 

[Stymietee]

Almost any defensive help that we can get will be widely welcomed. That said, I believe that if the pick is still ours at 13, the selection will be between safeties Derwin James/Florida State, and Ronnie Harrison/Alabama. Whichever survives to 13 will become the choice.

 

[Sharkinva]

1.) I don't think Payne is much of a pass rusher. Typically those guys don't go high in round 1. Allen and Payne are the same player but Allen has pass rushing tools. I think Vea will go over Payne especially on our team. You can make a case for Vea for us not Payne.

2) the Packers did it with Rodgers. When its a qb its always good to have talent even as a backup.

3. We don't know how the Smith deal works out. The 54mg money could be paid out in years 1,2,3 with a bailout in year 4. That 71mg is not fully g against the cap. ISnt it 54?

PAnye/Vea will be a hot debate. BUt lets not discount that Payne and Allen know each other which might help smooth the transition.

The Packers had a future hall of famer at QB and didnt take Rogers at the risk of passing up some one who was expected to help over the next three years.

Reports are Smith is guaranteed $71M, even if its 2/3s that, we are stuck with him for 3 years minimum.

 

[deanpet21]

PAnye/Vea will be a hot debate. BUt lets not discount that Payne and Allen know each other which might help smooth the transition.

The Packers had a future hall of famer at QB and didnt take Rogers at the risk of passing up some one who was expected to help over the next three years.

Reports are Smith is guaranteed $71M, even if its 2/3s that, we are stuck with him for 3 years minimum.

For Payne to be drafted then one of the mac boys would have to be a surprise cut. I just don't see Payne as a top 13 pick right now. You can make the argument with Vea but not Payne.

I agree we will have to pay Smith for 3 years. So what if we eat money on his 4th year. Allen should be ready by then. Its a strong possibility if he is there.

 

[Sharkinva]

For Payne to be drafted then one of the mac boys would have to be a surprise cut. I just don't see Payne as a top 13 pick right now. You can make the argument with Vea but not Payne.

I agree we will have to pay Smith for 3 years. So what if we eat money on his 4th year. Allen should be ready by then. Its a strong possibility if he is there.

Why?? the MAcboys are backup rotational guys that Bruce THOUGHT could start.

As for drafting Allen at 13, again 8-8 teams simply DONT draft guys you expect to sit for 3 years in the first round. Not when there are players that by year two should be KEY parts of your starting lineup on the board. Add in the fact that its crazy to pay Smith what we are doing and immediately put some one looking over his shoulder. This team has neither the coaching staff, front office or fan base to be able to manage a built in QB controversy. The moment Smith struggles, there would massive outcry to just start Allen and see what he has. Six years of QB drama wasnt enough for you?? I was against getting Smith, but now that we have him, he needs something Cousins never had, 100% commitment from the front office, with no guy lurking in the shadows for a Danny tantrum.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Vea and Payne. I think Smith and the OG are gone by then. The FSU safety should be there. By drafting Allen here you can wait until year 3 to actually play him. There could be an out clause in SMith deal by year 3. Its perfect insurance in 2 years. Its actually the smart way to do it. It would be actually planning ahead at our QB situation

I get the balancing act. It's almost too good to pass on. Allen is a guy that'll really profit from sitting for a couple of years (1st rd Qbs still do that?).

However, I'm not that big an Allen fan. In this case, I pass on Allen and take a defensive up grade or trade back to a team that wants Allen.

I'd feel a little differently if the Skins were picking in the early 20's and Allen fell to them.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

2) the Packers did it with Rodgers. When its a qb its always good to have talent even as a backup.

The Packers were already a perennial playoff team at the time they were sitting at 24 and Rodgers fell to them. The Pack could afford the luxury pick--b/c the kid was going to sit for a couple of years--b/c they were already a playoff team. The Skins aren't there yet where they can afford to roll the dice on a player that'll contribute in a couple of years.

 

[gkekoa]

If Allen is there, why not trade the pick?

 

[skinsdad62]

Vea and Payne. I think Smith and the OG are gone by then. The FSU safety should be there. By drafting Allen here you can wait until year 3 to actually play him. There could be an out clause in SMith deal by year 3. Its perfect insurance in 2 years. Its actually the smart way to do it. It would be actually planning ahead at our QB situation

so we paid 71 mil for steve deberg ? and werent the mccboys MIA after allen went down ? even before ?

 

[deanpet21]

Why?? the MAcboys are backup rotational guys that Bruce THOUGHT could start.

As for drafting Allen at 13, again 8-8 teams simply DONT draft guys you expect to sit for 3 years in the first round. Not when there are players that by year two should be KEY parts of your starting lineup on the board. Add in the fact that its crazy to pay Smith what we are doing and immediately put some one looking over his shoulder. This team has neither the coaching staff, front office or fan base to be able to manage a built in QB controversy. The moment Smith struggles, there would massive outcry to just start Allen and see what he has. Six years of QB drama wasnt enough for you?? I was against getting Smith, but now that we have him, he needs something Cousins never had, 100% commitment from the front office, with no guy lurking in the shadows for a Danny tantrum.

Mcgee had a good season for us. If Ionman and Allen don't get hurt the dline wouldn't have been an issue last year. Mclain was hurt last year. It silly to write these guys off.

Drafting Allen at 13 is a future move. I don't think he is going to be there

 

[deanpet21]

I get the balancing act. It's almost too good to pass on. Allen is a guy that'll really profit from sitting for a couple of years (1st rd Qbs still do that?).

However, I'm not that big an Allen fan. In this case, I pass on Allen and take a defensive up grade or trade back to a team that wants Allen.

I'd feel a little differently if the Skins were picking in the early 20's and Allen fell to them.

It shouldn't matter 13 or 20's. Its a strategy for the future.

 

[deanpet21]

The Packers were already a perennial playoff team at the time they were sitting at 24 and Rodgers fell to them. The Pack could afford the luxury pick--b/c the kid was going to sit for a couple of years--b/c they were already a playoff team. The Skins aren't there yet where they can afford to roll the dice on a player that'll contribute in a couple of years.

\Favre was still considered old at the time. So it was a need pick for the Packers. They knew they had to replace Favre. Playoff team or not its a future move. Its better than to be forced to take a QB.

 

[deanpet21]

so we paid 71 mil for steve deberg ? and werent the mccboys MIA after allen went down ? even before ?

Mclain yes. Made a big play in Sea. Mcghee was solid for us. He was our best run defender. Like I said before if the injuries don't happen it wouldn't have been an issue. Even if Taylor stayed healthy the dline would have been fine. I agree there is a need at NT. Hood doesn't belong there. I just wouldn't draft another run stuffing DE. That is what Payne is

 

[Sharkinva]

If Allen is there, why not trade the pick?

Because taking Allen is much more saucy than a boring old interior D-lineman or trading down.

 

[Stymietee]

Why?? the MAcboys are backup rotational guys that Bruce THOUGHT could start.

As for drafting Allen at 13, again 8-8 teams simply DONT draft guys you expect to sit for 3 years in the first round. Not when there are players that by year two should be KEY parts of your starting lineup on the board. Add in the fact that its crazy to pay Smith what we are doing and immediately put some one looking over his shoulder. This team has neither the coaching staff, front office or fan base to be able to manage a built in QB controversy. The moment Smith struggles, there would massive outcry to just start Allen and see what he has. Six years of QB drama wasnt enough for you?? I was against getting Smith, but now that we have him, he needs something Cousins never had, 100% commitment from the front office, with no guy lurking in the shadows for a Danny tantrum.

We are 180 on this one. Not on the pick being a QB at 13 but in the way a great team handles themselves in preparation for the future, even if the immediate future is set.

Immediate future = next 2-4 years.