I have honestly never been so dialed in on the Pacers in over a decade...

[tlance]

I am realistic, but that doesn't mean I'm going to instantly write off my team's chance for the next decade. I'm taking the approach that if I don't believe we can win, then I'll probably be right, and being right in that scenario would accomplish nothing. There's 30 teams in the NBA and are chances of winning a title will always be slim. So all in all, it's just better to believe and just hope one day that it will all come together.

I just wonder what standard Warriors fan (you know, the ones that were fans of that team before you jumped on their bandwagon) felt about their long-term title prospects back in 2009.

I am not a Warrior fan dumbass.

And Not only are you unrealistic, you don't understand how the NBA works. Pacers are building like it is the 90s. Can't win like that in the superteam era.

 

[msgkings322]

I am not a Warrior fan dumbass.

And Not only are you unrealistic, you don't understand how the NBA works. Pacers are building like it is the 90s. Can't win like that in the superteam era.

Maybe they are trying a Moneyball thing, zigging when everyone else zags. Not saying it will work but kind of intriguing to try.

Trying to be the 2004 Pistons maybe

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I am not a Warrior fan dumbass.

And Not only are you unrealistic, you don't understand how the NBA works. Pacers are building like it is the 90s. Can't win like that in the superteam era.

And the only person responsible for starting superteams is LeBron James. He's 33 now and can't play forever. You act like players of his nature and caliber will come through the woodwork once he retires. They won't.

And even if LeBron wasn't responsible for these teams, the league has gone through multiple collective bargaining agreements to prevent this and create a competitive balance.

 

[trojanfan12]

the league has gone through multiple collective bargaining agreements to prevent this and create a competitive balance.

And yet, superteams still form.

 

[tlance]

And the only person responsible for starting superteams is LeBron James. He's 33 now and can't play forever. You act like players of his nature and caliber will come through the woodwork once he retires. They won't.

And even if LeBron wasn't responsible for these teams, the league has gone through multiple collective bargaining agreements to prevent this and create a competitive balance.

The reason Super teams weren't a thing in the 90s was because there were no max contracts and teams could go a season far over the cap as the wanted to sign their own guys.

In '98 Jordan made $33.1 million in a year where the entire cap was $26.9 million and the average league payroll was around 30. People who want to glorify past players being loyal to franchises are ignoring the fundamental differences in free agency. Superstar players were not moving because if they wanted to their home team could pay them 2-3 times (or more) what the player would receive on the open market.

As long as the NBA keeps max contracts, superteams will continue to form and teams like the Pacers and Wizards get left out. Acting like super teams will go away when LeBron retires is ridiculously naive. They only go away when/if max contracts allow superstars to actually be paid what they are worth. KD wouldn't have signed in GS for 20 something million if OKC were offereing him 75. Fit be damned. That is too much money to pass up.

 

[tlance]

Maybe they are trying a Moneyball thing, zigging when everyone else zags. Not saying it will work but kind of intriguing to try.

Trying to be the 2004 Pistons maybe

Good luck with that.

 

[flyerhawk]

As long as the NBA keeps max contracts, superteams will continue to form and teams like the Pacers and Wizards get left out. Acting like super teams will go away when LeBron retires is ridiculously naive. They only go away when/if max contracts allow superstars to actually be paid what they are worth. KD wouldn't have signed in GS for 20 something million if OKC were offereing him 75. Fit be damned. That is too much money to pass up.

I agree that the current CBA makes superteams inevitable.

However I don't think that means any team is necessarily left out. The Warriors were hardly NBA royalty. But success makes you much more desirable.

The Sixers are going to be a pretty hot destination in the offseason despite being an NBA black hole for 5 years.

The Pacers and Wizards are doing what you always teams shouldn't do. Wallow in the mire of being good but not great.

 

[Black Adam]

I agree that the current CBA makes superteams inevitable.

However I don't think that means any team is necessarily left out. The Warriors were hardly NBA royalty. But success makes you much more desirable.

The Sixers are going to be a pretty hot destination in the offseason despite being an NBA black hole for 5 years.

The Pacers and Wizards are doing what you always teams shouldn't do. Wallow in the mire of being good but not great.

agreed here...

these days being = not good ENOUGH to get titles...

and don't suck enough to get good draft picks...

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree that the current CBA makes superteams inevitable.

However I don't think that means any team is necessarily left out. The Warriors were hardly NBA royalty. But success makes you much more desirable.

The Sixers are going to be a pretty hot destination in the offseason despite being an NBA black hole for 5 years.
The Pacers and Wizards are doing what you always teams shouldn't do. Wallow in the mire of being good but not great.

The difference is that, while Golden State and Philly weren't exactly "destination franchises," they were able to draft well and develop those players to the point where, in the Warriors case, they became a "destination franchise" and Philly looks to be on the verge of becoming one.

Without drafting and developing the players they have, neither would be current or potential destination franchises.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

And yet, superteams still form.

The unprecedented cap spike of 2016 is literally the only reason Durant was able to sign with the Warriors. Try harder.

 

[trojanfan12]

The unprecedented cap spike of 2016 is literally the only reason Durant was able to sign with the Warriors. Try harder.

I don't need to. Was it also the reason CP3 was able to go to Houston? How about 'Melo and PG-13 to OKC?

How about Kyrie and Hayward to the Celtics?

Bottom line, if top players want to play together, they are going to figure out a way. This isn't the first time the NBA has tried to stop it, but teams and players still figure out a way.

Additionally, "superteams" didn't start with Lebron. There were superteams in the 80's, a couple in the 90's and also in the early 2000's.

So once again and as usual, you're wrong.

Congrats and thanks for playing.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

I don't need to. Was it also the reason CP3 was able to go to Houston? How about 'Melo and PG-13 to OKC?

How about Kyrie and Hayward to the Celtics?

Bottom line, if top players want to play together, they are going to figure out a way. This isn't the first time the NBA has tried to stop it, but teams and players still figure out a way.

Additionally, "superteams" didn't start with Lebron. There were superteams in the 80's, a couple in the 90's and also in the early 2000's.

So once again and as usual, you're wrong.

Congrats and thanks for playing.

I could see the argument for Houston (even though I disagree), the fact that you think the current Celtics and Thunder are superteams shows your overall credibility as a mod.

 

[tlance]

I agree that the current CBA makes superteams inevitable.

However I don't think that means any team is necessarily left out. The Warriors were hardly NBA royalty. But success makes you much more desirable.

The Sixers are going to be a pretty hot destination in the offseason despite being an NBA black hole for 5 years.

The Pacers and Wizards are doing what you always teams shouldn't do. Wallow in the mire of being good but not great.

Oh, I totally agree.

No team is left out. Small and mid market teams can build contenders (see GS and SA). But, they have to do it differently. The Sixer and GS rebuilds were brilliant. There are a few teams that could head in that direction with a couple more shrewd moves.

My whole point, which you also said in your last sentence is that the Pacer model won't make them legit contenders anytime soon.

 

[flyerhawk]

I could see the argument for Houston (even though I disagree), the fact that you think the current Celtics and Thunder are superteams shows your overall credibility as a mod.

The Thunder have 3 All-NBA level players. WTF do you consider a super team?

 

[HurricaneDij39]

The Thunder have 3 All-NBA level players. WTF do you consider a super team?

Present-day Carmelo is not an All-NBA player or even close to it. Next.

 

[flyerhawk]

Present-day Carmelo is not an All-NBA player or even close to it. Next.

He was a bad get and many of us thought that when they got him. But he was viewed as a super star acquisition when they got him. Just because a super team fizzles out doesn't mean they aren't a super team.

 

[msgkings322]

The Thunder have 3 All-NBA level players. WTF do you consider a super team?

Who's the 3rd all NBA level player? Please don't say Carmelo, it's not 2012 anymore.

The Warriors and Rockets are the only "superteams" going right now. Even the Rockets are borderline.

 

[flyerhawk]

Who's the 3rd all NBA level player? Please don't say Carmelo, it's not 2012 anymore.

The Warriors and Rockets are the only "superteams" going right now. Even the Rockets are borderline.

FTR, I hate the term super team as I think it is largely meaningless. But if we are going with the usual definition then the Thunder absolutely are a super team. The fact that Carmelo has been a flop is not surprising but doesn't change the fact that he was brought in to be a super star.

 

[msgkings322]

FTR, I hate the term super team as I think it is largely meaningless. But if we are going with the usual definition then the Thunder absolutely are a super team. The fact that Carmelo has been a flop is not surprising but doesn't change the fact that he was brought in to be a super star.

What something IS and what it was meant to be are often not the same thing

 

[flyerhawk]

What something IS and what it was meant to be are often not the same thing

But isn't that the point of super team? Super teams are supposed to be teams of super stars brought together. And when they fail people can revel in the schadenfreude.