Golden Knights claim Malcolm Subban

[Rock Strongo]

Golden Knights claim goaltender Malcolm Subban off waivers from Bruins - Sportsnet.ca

what a disappointment hes been. last bust in net i can recall THIS bad was evgeni ryabchikov. bruins fans know the name.

 

[dash]

Golden Knights claim goaltender Malcolm Subban off waivers from Bruins - Sportsnet.ca

what a disappointment hes been. last bust in net i can recall THIS bad was yvgeny ryabchikov. bruins fans know the name.

My favo(u)rite Bruins goalie (mainly for his name, not his play) is Cleon Daskalakis.

/Maybe a change of scenery is just what Malcolm needs

 

[elocomotive]

He's only played in one NHL game, so hard to know if he's a "bust" yet or not - right? He's still just 23 and (unlike forwards) many goalies come into their prime and mature in their late 20s.

His AHL numbers aren't stellar, but far from bad either. I guess Las Vegas thinks there may be something there.

 

[Rock Strongo]

My favo(u)rite Bruins goalie (mainly for his name, not his play) is Cleon Daskalakis.

/Maybe a change of scenery is just what Malcolm needs

cleon ruled, good friends with cam. local legend here. grew up here. played ncaa here. played for the bruins. shitty NHL goaltender tho lol. hes in wayne gretzkys autobiography too. he told sather if wayne scored his first goal on him that night, he wanted the puck autographed.

wayne obliged. after he scored of course.

 

[dash]

It's always a tough call with goalies and risky using a first round pick to acquire one. Sometimes it works out (see Marty Brodeur, Carey Price, and MAF), but a GM is definitely rolling the dice on the most important position in hockey.

 

[thedddd]

It's always a tough call with goalies and risky using a first round pick to acquire one. Sometimes it works out (see Marty Brodeur, Carey Price, and MAF), but a GM is definitely rolling the dice on the most important position in hockey.

Since 2005 (IE the year of Price and Rask in the first round these are the only 1st RD goalies to play more than 5 games:

'06 - Benier(252), Varlamov (348), Irving (13)
'07 - None Drafted
'08 - None
'09 - None Drafted
'10 - None
'11 - None Drafted
'12 - Vasilevskiy(90)
'13 - None Drafted
'14 - None Drafted
'15 - Really too Soon None
'16 - Really Too Soon but None Drafted
'17 - Too Soon

What is interesting there are more years where one isn't drafted vs goalies with sustainable time in the NHL.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Since 2005 (IE the year of Price and Rask in the first round these are the only 1st RD goalies to play more than 5 games:

'06 - Benier(252), Varlamov (348), Irving (13)
'07 - None Drafted
'08 - None
'09 - None Drafted
'10 - None
'11 - None Drafted
'12 - Vasilevskiy(90)
'13 - None Drafted
'14 - None Drafted
'15 - Really too Soon None
'16 - Really Too Soon but None Drafted
'17 - Too Soon

What is interesting there are more years where one isn't drafted vs goalies with sustainable time in the NHL.

Yup. 17-18 years old is too early to properly assess 95% of the skaters out there. I'd say it's too young for 99.8% of the goalies. Maybe moving the draft back to age 19 will make it easier to identify goaltending talent.

 

[DragonfromTO]

My favo(u)rite Bruins goalie (mainly for his name, not his play) is Cleon Daskalakis.

/Maybe a change of scenery is just what Malcolm needs

I put two past Cleon in an Bruins alumni game. He was really pissed about one of them.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Yup. 17-18 years old is too early to properly assess 95% of the skaters out there. I'd say it's too young for 99.8% of the goalies. Maybe moving the draft back to age 19 will make it easier to identify goaltending talent.

Do you think it's the age? I think teams just generally don't understand how to evaluate goalies as well as they do skaters. Hell, I know I don't

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Do you think it's the age? I think teams just generally don't understand how to evaluate goalies as well as they do skaters. Hell, I know I don't

I think there might be some of that but I think goalies mature later than D and way later than forwards. Most of them anyway.

I think it's also just harder to project skills for goalies than it is for skaters. NHL passers and shooters are way different than what you'll see in any other league so stopping pucks doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL. This applies to skaters too but at least with them there are skills that are absolute. You can see if a guy can shoot hard or skate fast no matter who he's playing against.

Just my take on it.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I think there might be some of that but I think goalies mature later than D and way later than forwards. Most of them anyway.

I think it's also just harder to project skills for goalies than it is for skaters. NHL passers and shooters are way different than what you'll see in any other league so stopping pucks doesn't necessarily translate to the NHL. This applies to skaters too but at least with them there are skills that are absolute. You can see if a guy can shoot hard or skate fast no matter who he's playing against.

Just my take on it.

Well yeah, but doesn't that agree with what I said? I should have been clearer, I wasn't saying that NHL teams are specifically bad at evaluating goalies compared to a baseline.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Well yeah, but doesn't that agree with what I said? I should have been clearer, I wasn't saying that NHL teams are specifically bad at evaluating goalies compared to a baseline.

I was basically agreeing with your point. But more as an add-on to the fact that there's no doubt that (at the NHL level) goalies don't reach their prime until later than other positions. I think that, combined with the poor draft record for goalies show by @thedddd, shows that even more than with other players NHL scouts have not much of an idea who is going to be a really good NHL goalies based on their play at age 17-18. It's too soon, IMO, to project how a goalie is going to show against NHL shooters in 6-9 years.

 

[thedddd]

I compare NHL goalies to QB's in the NFL. Drafting wise is different (IE more 1st RD QB's) but they are the hardest position to project skill level and patience is needed dearly which I think why the skill level of both positions at the professional level is lacking.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

I compare NHL goalies to QB's in the NFL. Drafting wise is different (IE more 1st RD QB's) but they are the hardest position to project skill level and patience is needed dearly which I think why the skill level of both positions at the professional level is lacking.

I would almost compare more to pitchers. Really tough to project a young pitcher and how their secondary pitches will develop, how their pitches will look against better batters etc.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I was basically agreeing with your point. But more as an add-on to the fact that there's no doubt that (at the NHL level) goalies don't reach their prime until later than other positions. I think that, combined with the poor draft record for goalies show by @thedddd, shows that even more than with other players NHL scouts have not much of an idea who is going to be a really good NHL goalies based on their play at age 17-18. It's too soon, IMO, to project how a goalie is going to show against NHL shooters in 6-9 years.

I wouldn't be shocked if some of that is affected by usage though. I'm generalizing a little, but NHL coaches are not the type of people to let a young goalie start, let alone run with the thing. So some goalies might be ready before they're actually deemed /trusted to be ready.

Then at the other end of the age spectrum there's probably some survivor bias. Goalies aren't like players in that there's only one job and two roster spots for them, so they can't slide down the pecking order as they get older and lose a step. So the ones that are still playing at 35+ generally tend to be the very best, which makes the subset of "old goalies" seem better than it actually is and skews the curve a little.

 

[dash]

Malcolm is blanking the B's through two periods tonight.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

What a bust.

 

[elocomotive]

Malcolm is #$(*king the B's through two periods tonight.

Hey, let's watch the language!

I compare NHL goalies to QB's in the NFL.

I would almost compare more to pitchers.

Yep.

Subban has a 9-2-0 record and is ranked 3rd and 6th in GAA and save percentage respectivley at the moment.

Not bad for "a bust."

 

[thedddd]

Hey, let's watch the language!




Yep.

Subban has a 9-2-0 record and is ranked 3rd and 6th in GAA and save percentage respectivley at the moment.

Not bad for "a bust."

As for the bust statement, really wasn't founded. That was my point in projecting goalies is tough and development is needed, why very few are taken early. Props to him and if he keeps this up 2012 might become another good draft year for goalies, the first since '05 and marginally '06.

 

[elocomotive]

As for the bust statement, really wasn't founded. That was my point in projecting goalies is tough and development is needed, why very few are taken early. Props to him and if he keeps this up 2012 might become another good draft year for goalies, the first since '05 and marginally '06.

^Yup!

Additionally, your defense makes a huge difference in "your stats" as a goalie. I've seen a number of times where guys had mediocre numbers in the AHL and then arrive in the show and be among the league leaders. Still to early to tell, but good on Malcolm. Always tough to be the younger coming after a star player brother.