G5 version of CFP?

[Deep Creek]

This topic came up in a couple of other threads recently. Thought it deserved its own.

Three questions:

1. Should the Group of Five pursue their own version of a CFP?
2. Should the Group of Five just remain satisfied with the one spot the get in a New Year's Day bowl?
3. Do you believe a G5 will ever receive a spot in the CFP as it currently exists?

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

1. No absolutely not, we deserve the chance to show we can compete against the schools with money, all it would do is give us a permanent definition of being inferior and we would never have a shot at recruits with offers from money schools.

2. The more important thing we have to worry about is how ridiculously uneven the money distribution is, I get the money 5 should get more, but it's absolutely ridiculous how much more they get compared to us. I mean seriously fucking Purdue has made a living out of being so bad that G5 schools blow them out each year and they somehow make nearly 20 times as much money. Kansas....fucking Kansas can somehow afford a $300 million facility upgrade... Boise State and Houston are both good programs and it would take us decades upon decades to afford that and in almost every year except 2007, Boise State and Houston would easily blow out Kansas.

3. The honest answer is we don't know. One of the things everyone liked about the playoff was that if there was a team like the 2008 Utah or 2009 Boise State and TCU teams, those teams would get a shot to prove their worth....and well we still don't know if that would happen because teams like those haven't existed yet.

 

[4down20]

The thing is, the G5 teams choose to compete at the FBS level. They could always drop down to the FCS level if they wanted, but they want to be on the FBS level and more teams are being added all the time.

 

[Deep Creek]

1. No absolutely not, we deserve the chance to show we can compete against the schools with money, all it would do is give us a permanent definition of being inferior and we would never have a shot at recruits with offers from money schools.

2. The more important thing we have to worry about is how ridiculously uneven the money distribution is, I get the money 5 should get more, but it's absolutely ridiculous how much more they get compared to us. I mean seriously fucking Purdue has made a living out of being so bad that G5 schools blow them out each year and they somehow make nearly 20 times as much money. Kansas....fucking Kansas can somehow afford a $300 million facility upgrade... Boise State and Houston are both good programs and it would take us decades upon decades to afford that and in almost every year except 2007, Boise State and Houston would easily blow out Kansas.

3. The honest answer is we don't know. One of the things everyone liked about the playoff was that if there was a team like the 2008 Utah or 2009 Boise State and TCU teams, those teams would get a shot to prove their worth....and well we still don't know if that would happen because teams like those haven't existed yet.

Thanks for the response.

The reason I didn't put a poll in it was that I think we are more interested in the reasoning behind the answer as much as the answer.

I think I read where each C-USA team gets $200,000 for their TV deal. Pales in comparison to Purdue and Kansas, huh? Membership has its priveleges.

 

[Deep Creek]

The thing is, the G5 teams choose to compete at the FBS level. They could always drop down to the FCS level if they wanted, but they want to be on the FBS level and more teams are being added all the time.

Yep, everyone has a choice...if they meet certain criteria. They just don't get to choose which conference they want to be a member of. That requires an invitation. They can want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

 

[4down20]

Yep, everyone has a choice...if they meet certain criteria. They just don't get to choose which conference they want to be a member of. That requires an invitation. They can want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

They would be better off without a conference in some ways. I have no problem with a G5 team making it to the playoffs in theory, but I think they need to play a schedule that reflects them deserving it. And that's hard to do with a G5 conference schedule.

But if they were independent and could schedule a bunch of P5 games, then that would be a different story. But this would only work for more established teams already. Boise St, BYU etc. Notre Dame is an obvious example, but that's not easy to do and they only manage because they have many permanent games.

 

[outofyourmind]

This topic came up in a couple of other threads recently. Thought it deserved its own.

Three questions:

1. Should the Group of Five pursue their own version of a CFP?
2. Should the Group of Five just remain satisfied with the one spot the get in a New Year's Day bowl?
3. Do you believe a G5 will ever receive a spot in the CFP as it currently exists?

1. No absolutely not, we deserve the chance to show we can compete against the schools with money, all it would do is give us a permanent definition of being inferior and we would never have a shot at recruits with offers from money schools.

2. The more important thing we have to worry about is how ridiculously uneven the money distribution is, I get the money 5 should get more, but it's absolutely ridiculous how much more they get compared to us. I mean seriously fucking Purdue has made a living out of being so bad that G5 schools blow them out each year and they somehow make nearly 20 times as much money. Kansas....fucking Kansas can somehow afford a $300 million facility upgrade... Boise State and Houston are both good programs and it would take us decades upon decades to afford that and in almost every year except 2007, Boise State and Houston would easily blow out Kansas.

3. The honest answer is we don't know. One of the things everyone liked about the playoff was that if there was a team like the 2008 Utah or 2009 Boise State and TCU teams, those teams would get a shot to prove their worth....and well we still don't know if that would happen because teams like those haven't existed yet.

To @Deep Creek
1. No. I don't think it's in their best interest to put more separation between themselves and the P5. I think that they cut themselves out of more money if they pursue more separation, because, really, who gives a fuck about them.

2. The answer is YES. Be satisfied. If you aren't then get better like every great team at one point before you.

3. No probably not. Unless they take the old Miami and FSU route and play great teams anywhere anytime and actually win those games. A G5 team will have to bring in viewers and they can't do that at their current level of play.

To @BoiseStateFan27
#2 Insane amounts of money for bad P5 teams is a shame especially with equal distribution. It doesn't seem fair. However, sometime in the last 100 years those teams made very good decisions about their football programs and hitched their wagon to some, eventual, great teams. G5 schools did the same, without the great teams thingy. They hit and missed. The Kansas and Iowa States of the world joined in with programs that would spend generations building their brand and spent hundreds of millions of dollars making football the great money making machine it is today. In exchange, they were the punching bags, the perennial doormats, the practice squads for todays great programs.

It was all a matter of making the right decisions the past 100 years.
Some teams did it.
Some teams didn't.

It's like when the Big XII eventually breaks up and Iowas State and Kansas State are left out in the cold with few option past the Big Mac Sac Wac conference, the only people they can blame is themselves. They had 100 years to build their teams and they failed in doing that, so, Adios Mother Fuckers.

 

[4down20]

2. The more important thing we have to worry about is how ridiculously uneven the money distribution is, I get the money 5 should get more, but it's absolutely ridiculous how much more they get compared to us. I mean seriously fucking Purdue has made a living out of being so bad that G5 schools blow them out each year and they somehow make nearly 20 times as much money. Kansas....fucking Kansas can somehow afford a $300 million facility upgrade... Boise State and Houston are both good programs and it would take us decades upon decades to afford that and in almost every year except 2007, Boise State and Houston would easily blow out Kansas.

It's not ridiculous at all, and it's a damn shame people like you don't realize how much more money you are earnign to start with because of the bigger teams.

Those teams BUILT college football and made it what it is today. Schools like Boise St have a much easier path to success these days with the exposure that is given now. You get all your games televised, back 30 years ago that wasn't even the case for big schools.

You have to work for it and build your market. You have to maintain success and in the case of Boise St - get rid of that awful blue field. It's not the college football worlds fault that Boise St has a terrible market, and it's not their responsibility to make up for it either. If you want that type of stuff, the Pro's offer it.

But this is why I love college football, it doesn't punish success as a rule.

 

[NolePride]

#1: Yes. (If nothing else they could grab more money...it would be pay-off money
instead of playoff money)

#2: They are in a position to get more, if they force a fight on the floor of the entire
NCAA convention. That would include the Div II and Div III programs.

#3: Never. (Hell half of the P5 teams will never see the playoffs.)

To answer your question that was posed to me in that other thread...It will be
very rare that a bottom-feeder from any of the Power 5 leagues ever makes the
playoffs. VERY RARE. One of the reasons will be...lack of "name." Even the
SEC could get left out if Vandy ever won the League Crown, while at the same
Time ND went 11-1, FSU was 11-1, OU/Tex went 11-1, USC won the PAC12 and
Ohio St won the Big10. The committee won't take them serious, and will opt for
the "name teams."

The Group of 5, if they split off, could see teams like Iowa St, Kansas, Syracuse
join them. Those teams are dreaming if they believe they'll ever be competitive
on a yearly basis with where they are at now.

The NCAA holds the key to all of this. The Power 5 controls the bulk of the money
but, if they split away from the NCAA, who do they play beside each other? The NCAA
would block member schools from playing them in the other sports along with football.

That would create a sticky situation, for all parties.

A secondary issue is the NCAA could help its own cause and all of its members by blackmailing
the NFL. And they could do it with a swipe of the pen. Tell the NFL you will annually give
every member institution 1 mil a year...that will cost the NFL about 600mil or we will
raise the mandatory gpa to 2.75 in core courses to get into school and play athletics and 2.75
in core courses to remain eligible. You just took away 90% of the players the NFL wants
and forces them to go to a minor league, which will easily cost them 1 bil a year.

Group of 5 splits off and has its own playoff system...the recruiting for the annual bottom
feeders of the Power 5 leagues will totally dry up and 3-stars will flock to the Group of 5
for a chance to compete for a NC instead of 4 years of being Bama's or FSU's bitch.

Somebody has to take a stand.

 

[Scapegoat]

To @Deep Creek
1. No. I don't think it's in their best interest to put more separation between themselves and the P5. I think that they cut themselves out of more money if they pursue more separation, because, really, who gives a fuck about them.

2. The answer is YES. Be satisfied. If you aren't then get better like every great team at one point before you.

3. No probably not. Unless they take the old Miami and FSU route and play great teams anywhere anytime and actually win those games. A G5 team will have to bring in viewers and they can't do that at their current level of play.

To @BoiseStateFan27
#2 Insane amounts of money for bad P5 teams is a shame especially with equal distribution. It doesn't seem fair. However, sometime in the last 100 years those teams made very good decisions about their football programs and hitched their wagon to some, eventual, great teams. G5 schools did the same, without the great teams thingy. They hit and missed. The Kansas and Iowa States of the world joined in with programs that would spend generations building their brand and spent hundreds of millions of dollars making football the great money making machine it is today. In exchange, they were the punching bags, the perennial doormats, the practice squads for todays great programs.

It was all a matter of making the right decisions the past 100 years.
Some teams did it.
Some teams didn't.

It's like when the Big XII eventually breaks up and Iowas State and Kansas State are left out in the cold with few option past the Big Mac Sac Wac conference, the only people they can blame is themselves. They had 100 years to build their teams and they failed in doing that, so, Adios Mother Fuckers.

Along with Tech, Baylor and TCU.

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

They would be better off without a conference in some ways. I have no problem with a G5 team making it to the playoffs in theory, but I think they need to play a schedule that reflects them deserving it. And that's hard to do with a G5 conference schedule.

But if they were independent and could schedule a bunch of P5 games, then that would be a different story. But this would only work for more established teams already. Boise St, BYU etc. Notre Dame is an obvious example, but that's not easy to do and they only manage because they have many permanent games.

Problem is unless you get the bowl ties like Notre Dame does, being independent means with even one loss you're stuck playing San Jose State in the Fight hunger bowl because chances are the New Years 6 bowls won't select those teams. Maybe Boise State has a shot at an At-Large in the Fiesta bowl since they seem to like having us there but that's about it.

In some ways I would like to be independent but at the same time our season would basically consist of playing the LSUs, Wisconsins, Virginia Techs etc weeks 1-4, then playing BYU, teams from the American and like San Diego State in our 5th - 8th games, and then scrubs for the last 4 games.

 

[4down20]

Problem is unless you get the bowl ties like Notre Dame does, being independent means with even one loss you're stuck playing San Jose State in the Fight hunger bowl because chances are the New Years 6 bowls won't select those teams. Maybe Boise State has a shot at an At-Large in the Fiesta bowl since they seem to like having us there but that's about it.

In some ways I would like to be independent but at the same time our season would basically consist of playing the LSUs, Wisconsins, Virginia Techs etc weeks 1-4, then playing BYU, teams from the American and like San Diego State in our 5th - 8th games, and then scrubs for the last 4 games.

You have to build your brand more to get those things.

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

It's not ridiculous at all, and it's a damn shame people like you don't realize how much more money you are earnign to start with because of the bigger teams.

Those teams BUILT college football and made it what it is today. Schools like Boise St have a much easier path to success these days with the exposure that is given now. You get all your games televised, back 30 years ago that wasn't even the case for big schools.

You have to work for it and build your market. You have to maintain success and in the case of Boise St - get rid of that awful blue field. It's not the college football worlds fault that Boise St has a terrible market, and it's not their responsibility to make up for it either. If you want that type of stuff, the Pro's offer it.

But this is why I love college football, it doesn't punish success as a rule.

I said before certainly the big programs deserve a larger share, but nowadays they earn like $20 million at the least while others barely make $1 million. Earning 20 times as much is a little excessive. It's becoming nearly impossible for new programs to emerge.

 

[4down20]

I said before certainly the big programs deserve a larger share, but nowadays they earn like $20 million at the least while others barely make $1 million. Earning 20 times as much is a little excessive. It's becoming nearly impossible for new programs to emerge.

Boise St got WAY more exposure and benefits than any team would have even 20 years ago.

So I don't see how you can say it's harder now.

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

You have to build your brand more to get those things.

We're already a more recognizable brand than a lot of the power 5, and far more than anyone outside the power 5 unless you don't count Notre Dame as a power 5 program.

 

[4down20]

We're already a more recognizable brand than a lot of the power 5, and far more than anyone outside the power 5 unless you don't count Notre Dame as a power 5 program.

"Great Value" is a recognizable brand, that doesn't mean anything.

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

Boise St got WAY more exposure and benefits than any team would have even 20 years ago.

So I don't see how you can say it's harder now.

Fair enough, it would be better if being Independent was a sustainable model these days so we could cut our teeth playing the big schools like Florida State and Penn State did way back in the day

 

[4down20]

Fair enough, it would be better if being Independent was a sustainable model these days so we could cut our teeth playing the big schools like Florida State and Penn State did way back in the day

You could get them if you wanted them bad enough.

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

You could get them if you wanted them bad enough.

To be honest I am a little disappointing in our scheduling lately, we got on a roll there for a little bit when we grabbed some upcoming home and homes with Florida State, Oklahoma State and Michigan State but we haven't done much since

We haven't even tried to go for another neutral site opener lately, those tend to bring in almost as much money as our entire TV deal does

 

[Boise4Life]

This topic came up in a couple of other threads recently. Thought it deserved its own.

Three questions:

1. Should the Group of Five pursue their own version of a CFP?
2. Should the Group of Five just remain satisfied with the one spot the get in a New Year's Day bowl?
3. Do you believe a G5 will ever receive a spot in the CFP as it currently exists?

I'm fine with it the way it is. It's working. It's going to take a lot for a Group of 5 to make a playoff, but it could happen one day if things fell into the right place. You'd have to have a decent schedule, pretty much handle everyone on it, and have some things happen ahead of you with the Power 5 teams toward the top of the rankings, an unlikely scenario but not impossible. But the divide is growing and it's gonna be awfully hard to find those 2006-2011 type Boise teams, those 2008-2010 type TCU teams, Utah in 2004 and 2008 anymore in today's day and age. I don't really see it happening. So if we're talking fairness, let's be fair to the teams that play tough schedules. If they navigate it, they deserve to be rewarded. And that's a "no" to a Group of 5 playoff. The last thing we need is a greater perceived divide between the have and have nots and a tournament that not won't generate much interest.