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Fat Rob’ says Jay Gruden told him to lose weight because Redskins will run more

ehb5

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certain situations require certain things . that is intangibles . trust is another

Sure you arent going to throw the ball with 20 seconds to go and the lead. Or maybe youre on the half yard line. You would likely want to run there. But the majority of the time it will be the non-optimal choice.

Im not sure how trust factors in.
 

skinsdad62

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Sure you arent going to throw the ball with 20 seconds to go and the lead. Or maybe youre on the half yard line. You would likely want to run there. But the majority of the time it will be the non-optimal choice.

Im not sure how trust factors in.
do you trust your qb not to throw a pick ?

3 words explain that being too pass heavy is not smart ..... run and shoot
 

ehb5

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do you trust your qb not to throw a pick ?

3 words explain that being too pass heavy is not smart ..... run and shoot

Well yea you cant throw the ball 80% of the time if Ryan Fitzpatrick is your QB but...he isnt our QB...

Our passing attack has been great these past 2 years with Cousins. So that really isnt a concern. I think when we're paying Kirk $24 million a year wed better be able to trust him to not throw a pick.

And now Im not sure how run and shoot means anything... what do those words prove?
 

skinsdad62

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Well yea you cant throw the ball 80% of the time if Ryan Fitzpatrick is your QB but...he isnt our QB...

Our passing attack has been great these past 2 years with Cousins. So that really isnt a concern. I think when we're paying Kirk $24 million a year wed better be able to trust him to not throw a pick.

And now Im not sure how run and shoot means anything... what do those words prove?
do you know what the run and shoot is ?
 

skinsdad62

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then you should know what that means . it means a too pass happy football team wont win . you need to be able to run the ball and in KC's case he thrives in play action
 

skinsdad62

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history has shown it, any team that is one dimensional is easier to defeat . the run and shoot failed because it could not close games with the running game
 

ehb5

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history has shown it, any team that is one dimensional is easier to defeat . the run and shoot failed because it could not close games with the running game

Did it? Some teams were successful with it.

And you can throw a lot while not running a run and shoot offense.
 

Sportster 72

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Sure. You can have success running the ball. But I think in MOST cases that wont hold up. Both the examples you name were largely freak seasons if you will. We all know the story of the RG3 year and its uniqueness but Dallas this year was incredibly unique as well. They had a rookie QB, a great RB, and one of the best Olines ever built. Of course running makes more sense for them than it would for other teams. So I agree running games have value, but I just think the amount of that value for most teams is not as large as we often think.

You can definitely use yards per play though. It is literally saying you gain more yards when you call a pass play than when you call a run play. Part of the reason is because passing plays target areas of the field more downfield but that doesnt change that passes are more efficient per play - its only part of the reason it happens.

That said if you wanted to look at it a different way you could use other statistics like Win Probability Added like they do in the article I linked. Only problem there is I dont have the data for that on a team by team basis but I am 100% confident our teams data would match the overall data from the article (if not show even more of an edge toward passing).

Have to agree to disagree. I know for sure the importance of being able to run enough to make play action worse. It influences the defense and gives the offense advantages it would not have if you could drop 7 or 8 on every down.

We/I have kind of got stock on this one element of running the ball. Just as importantly is clock management and wearing out the opposing defense. You can measure that too on teams who rely to much on no huddle and then watch their D fade late in games.
 

skinsdad62

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Did it? Some teams were successful with it.

And you can throw a lot while not running a run and shoot offense.
the run and shoot is no longer in existence . all the proof i need
 

ehb5

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the run and shoot is no longer in existence . all the proof i need

So? It still influenced the way modern offenses operate.

And more importantly - my argument never had anything to do with the run and shoot. Why are you assuming the run and shoot is a requirement for passing at a high volume?
 

skinsdad62

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So? It still influenced the way modern offenses operate.

And more importantly - my argument never had anything to do with the run and shoot. Why are you assuming the run and shoot is a requirement for passing at a high volume?
why ? because that offense did what you advocate now
 

gkekoa

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Statistically speaking, ehb is correct. Passing is far more efficient than running. The league is no longer balanced because RBs are not the best athletes on the field. Every DL in the NFL is a great athlete. Every Lb is a great athlete. That doesn't mean running doesn't have a place; however, neither does a constant 3rd and 7 because you ran twice trying commit to the run.
 

skinsdad62

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You mean because they passed a lot? Lots of offenses have passed a lot and been successful.

How is the run and shoot even relevant?
i just showed you the concept was tried and it failed but be that as it may

what is your run to pass ratio you advocate ?
 

ehb5

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i just showed you the concept was tried and it failed but be that as it may

what is your run to pass ratio you advocate ?

No you didn't. You pointed to an offense that is no longer run in its pure form but has influences on modern day offenses yet is largely irrelevant to my point.

I don't know what the optional balance would be. But statistically speaking we know passing is more effective per play. Teams that throw a lot (by design) often have very good offenses. I don't know what the balance should be but a team with Aaron Rodgers (or even our offense) should be putting the ball in the hands of its QB wayyy more than in the hands of its RB. Statistically speaking this makes sense and we have no evidence that it would be bad to throw more. Maybe teams are currently optimizing their run/pass balances I don't really know - none of us really could (though I think we can be confident that running more would be less optimal). But I wouldn't be surprised if offenses keep moving more and more pass heavy to adjust to the effectiveness of passing the ball.
 

skinsdad62

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No you didn't. You pointed to an offense that is no longer run in its pure form but has influences on modern day offenses yet is largely irrelevant to my point.

I don't know what the optional balance would be. But statistically speaking we know passing is more effective per play. Teams that throw a lot (by design) often have very good offenses. I don't know what the balance should be but a team with Aaron Rodgers (or even our offense) should be putting the ball in the hands of its QB wayyy more than in the hands of its RB. Statistically speaking this makes sense and we have no evidence that it would be bad to throw more. Maybe teams are currently optimizing their run/pass balances I don't really know - none of us really could (though I think we can be confident that running more would be less optimal). But I wouldn't be surprised if offenses keep moving more and more pass heavy to adjust to the effectiveness of passing the ball.
yes i did the run and shoot was a heavy pass offense with minimum running because of the lack of a TE . it faded out of existence when teams learned about the concept and found ways to defeat it . being a one dementional team will get you beat

so you cant tell me what the pass to run ratio is for the offense you advocate ? you cant say 70 -30 or 80-20 or 90-10 ? i think 60-40 is about right in todays game but you cant put a number on it ?
 

gkekoa

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do you trust your qb not to throw a pick ?

3 words explain that being too pass heavy is not smart ..... run and shoot

Not really. The entire premise of the WCO is to supplement the quick passing game for the running game. The birth of a new era of football. Houston also made the SB with the run and shoot.

They did so with about a 65% passing attack.


The 2015 Patriots threw 63% of the time.
The Packers are usually in that same ball park.

I think your idea of the run and shoot is a bit off.
 
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