Edgar H.O.F Thread

[NWinAZ]

Ace of MLB Stats ‏@theaceofspaeder 2h2 hours ago

Career defensive runs saved
Edgar Martinez 17.2
Paul Molitor 7.9
David Ortiz -15.9
Frank Thomas -64.8

Ace of MLB Stats ‏@theaceofspaeder 2h2 hours ago

Edgar Martinez during his 30s 2,369 times safely on base - .4360 OBP
Ty Cobb during his 30s 2,341 times safely on base - .4357 OBP

 

[cezero]

it won't matter to the voters, unfortunately.

really stupid.

even if i weren't a seattle fan, i'd think it was a travesty that he's not in.

 

[NWinAZ]

Jason A. Churchill ‏@ProspectInsider 2h2 hours ago

For those that think Edgar just took advantage of the Kingdome: Career on road: .312/.412/.514 Home: .311/.423/.517

 

[Mebert]

I sent in my vote for him, stupid process never accepts my votes though.

Not a lot of modern era players have a 400 OBP.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I got nothing against Ortiz but considering him a shoe in when Edgar can't get in is a joke.

 

[Destroydacre]

I made that argument back on the old ESPN forums. Edgar was actually a good fielding third baseman, yet there's this misconception that he was a terrible fielder and that he DH'd because he couldn't field, which just wasn't true at all. But no one really cares. The fact that Edgar won't make it in, and won't even come close, shows how big of a joke the BBWAA truly is.

 

[NWinAZ]

I got nothing against Ortiz but considering him a shoe in when Edgar can't get in is a joke.

This is how I would compare them (and to analyze all Hall eligible players).

Take their 10 best CONSECUTIVE years and compare them via whatever stat you may choose (in this case WAR);

Ortiz 35.6
Edgar 50.2
Thomas 57.3 (H.O.F)

The reason I choose 10 consecutive is to gauge consistency and to take mere longevity out of all equations. As you see, really no comparison to these two yet Edgar fights for the Hall and most likely Ortiz walks in.

And for DH reference:

Thomas 5698 PA's as DH
Ortiz 8248+
Edgar 6218

 

[wazzu31]

I don't get how Edgar gets penalized for not being a position players for most of his life but there are guys in the HOF who are only in because of their defensive skills, only in because on longevity. If Lee Smith can get in the best DH of all time should be in, the only reason Edgar doesn't have better numbers is because he was blocked by a fan favorite who he should've played over and the DH role was only for old dudes who couldn't move anymore. I'm bias obviously but with his inability to play the field plus how fudged up his eye was it's HOF worthy he even got 2,000 hits.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don't get how Edgar gets penalized for not being a position players for most of his life but there are guys in the HOF who are only in because of their defensive skills, only in because on longevity. If Lee Smith can get in the best DH of all time should be in, the only reason Edgar doesn't have better numbers is because he was blocked by a fan favorite who he should've played over and the DH role was only for old dudes who couldn't move anymore. I'm bias obviously but with his inability to play the field plus how fudged up his eye was it's HOF worthy he even got 2,000 hits.

Thomas was only 520 PA's at DH less than Edgar which is not even a full season difference.

 

[SeattleCoug]

This is how I would compare them (and to analyze all Hall eligible players).

Take their 10 best CONSECUTIVE years and compare them via whatever stat you may choose (in this case WAR);

Ortiz 35.6
Edgar 50.2
Thomas 57.3 (H.O.F)

The reason I choose 10 consecutive is to gauge consistency and to take mere longevity out of all equations. As you see, really no comparison to these two yet Edgar fights for the Hall and most likely Ortiz walks in.

And for DH reference:

Thomas 5698 PA's as DH
Ortiz 8248+
Edgar 6218

You would think in this day and age that they would look more at the advanced metrics. Yet Ortiz has homers and the Red Sox factor and that is enough for people to think he is the more deserving player. Like I said I have nothing against Ortiz, both players should be in. The Hall voting is a joke tho, but that's a different conversation.

 

[NWinAZ]

You would think in this day and age that they would look more at the advanced metrics. Yet Ortiz has homers and the Red Sox factor and that is enough for people to think he is the more deserving player. Like I said I have nothing against Ortiz, both players should be in. The Hall voting is a joke tho, but that's a different conversation.

Yep it is.

 

[jakedog56]

Just imagine the numbers he would have if he hadn't gotten injured playing on a poorly kept field. He essentially lost 2 years of his career because of that bs.

 

[NWinAZ]

Best 10 consecutive year WAR totaled...continued.

Ortiz 35.6
Edgar 50.2
Thomas 57.3 (H.O.F)
C. Jones 55.3
Molitor 42.5 (HOF)
Yount 50.1 (HOF)
Jeter 50.0
Puckett 39.7 (HOF)
Boggs 69.2 (HOF)
Biggio 51.3 (HOF)

Also, from 1980-2005 Edgar has the 15th best WAR in that period. In the top 30, Edgar was higher than 7 Hall Of Famers (Gwynn, Ozzie, Alomar, Sandberg, Molitor, Murray, Chipper).

 

[cezero]

I remember reading an SI piece a few weeks back that really went in depth about why Edgar should be in the Hall. Echoes everything NW and others have been saying. Anybody else read that?

 

[NWinAZ]

I remember reading an SI piece a few weeks back that really went in depth about why Edgar should be in the Hall. Echoes everything NW and others have been saying. Anybody else read that?

no, I missed that one. will have to look it up. thx.

 

[Msfann]

All those voters who snub Edgar for being a DH will have zero problem with the DH when its Ortiz's time to vote. Edgar might be able to get after that is my guess.

It would be badass to see Edgar and Griffey go in together though.

 

[blstoker]

All those voters who snub Edgar for being a DH will have zero problem with the DH when its Ortiz's time to vote. Edgar might be able to get after that is my guess.

It would be badass to see Edgar and Griffey go in together though.

Edgar shouldn't have to wait for anyone to break the ceiling for him. He's the best DH the MLB has ever seen, and there is no reason to make him wait until there is a DH already in. Besides, there already is a DH in the Hall of Fame - Frank Thomas. Thomas played 339 more games at DH than at 1B, and only had 6 of his 18 full seasons in the majors with more 1B games than DH.

I can understand Big Hurt getting in first. He had more power, walked more and had an OBP that was also over .400. But if Ortiz gets in and Edgar isn't already in, then it'll be just another case to show that the HoF voters have absolutely 0 credibility as baseball people.

 

[cezero]

no, I missed that one. will have to look it up. thx.

I found it. It's by Jay Jaffe, who I had never heard of before. I don't read SI much, though.

JAWS: Edgar Martinez deserves HOF honors

 

[Msfann]

Edgar shouldn't have to wait for anyone to break the ceiling for him. He's the best DH the MLB has ever seen, and there is no reason to make him wait until there is a DH already in. Besides, there already is a DH in the Hall of Fame - Frank Thomas. Thomas played 339 more games at DH than at 1B, and only had 6 of his 18 full seasons in the majors with more 1B games than DH.

I can understand Big Hurt getting in first. He had more power, walked more and had an OBP that was also over .400. But if Ortiz gets in and Edgar isn't already in, then it'll be just another case to show that the HoF voters have absolutely 0 credibility as baseball people.

He shouldn't have to wait i agree completely. but my point is most of the hypocrites that wont vote Edgar in because of him being a DH will change their tune for Ortiz because he's more popular. The system is broken.

 

[NWinAZ]

I found it. It's by Jay Jaffe, who I had never heard of before. I don't read SI much, though.

JAWS: Edgar Martinez deserves HOF honors

Awesome! I saved it so I have something to read later.