Eddie Lacy

[JMR]

I won't want RW to never take off, would just like it to be the secondary part of his game. What I remember about that historic stretch was the passing.

Pete Carroll: Russell Wilson is “best he’s been” from the pocket

“I think the pocket being so consistently solid for him makes a huge difference,” Carroll said. “The rhythm, since the (bye week), we’ve really tried to feature a fast rhythm and making sure he’s really got a chance to get the ball out fast to keep the pressure off of the guys up front. All of that has happened with more earnest because of how the start was. I think it’s a combination, but I really think the guys up front are really improving and that’s what’s made the difference for us.”

The part in bold is something I'd like to see this season. Feel if the Seahawks do that again there won't be the big need to bail out of the pocket so quickly. I don't think the offense really had a chance to function last year with all the injuries, especially to RW, but also the entire RB corp and the OL which required constant shuffling.

Hoping for a big season from the Seahawks this season. It's important, because very soon ( year or two ) a lot of the key defensive players could be gone. Need that offense to pick up the slack, if need be.

You notice in that quote from PC that he says the key to the whole thing was improvement of the pass pro? They didn't just decide to be in a better rhythm or pass better from the pocket during that stretch. It was enabled because there was a better pocket to pass from.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You notice in that quote from PC that he says the key to the whole thing was improvement of the pass pro? They didn't just decide to be in a better rhythm or pass better from the pocket during that stretch. It was enabled because there was a better pocket to pass from.

Well sure, for any offense to function you need the OL to at least be functional. Counting on the OL to be a tad bit better then 32nd this season. The OL needs to get near the middle of the pack at least this season. However the talk about the OL is a deflection. I want to see that quick rhythm passing once again.

 

[JMR]

Well sure, for any offense to function you need the OL to at least be functional. Counting on the OL to be a tad bit better then 32nd this season. The OL needs to get near the middle of the pack at least this season. However the talk about the OL is a deflection. I want to see that quick rhythm passing once again.

Yikes man, so I guess you're more or less saying PC was full of shit in that quote. I think this convo has jumped the shark.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Yikes man, so I guess you're more or less saying PC was full of shit in that quote. I think this convo has jumped the shark.

No not at all. 2015 the OL went from putrid to just piss poor. Enough of a change when combined with the quick rhyme passing change to really rev up the offense. You seem to claim there never was a change to a quicker get the ball out offense, it was all about the better OL. That OL still sucked, which is why the Seahawks blow it up and started from scratch in 2016.

 

[JMR]

No not at all. 2015 the OL went from putrid to just piss poor. Enough of a change when combined with the quick rhyme passing change to really rev up the offense. You seem to claim there never was a change to a quicker get the ball out offense, it was all about the better OL. That OL still sucked, which is why the Seahawks blow it up and started from scratch in 2016.

The OL we had on the field in the 2nd half off 2015 is the best one by far since the SB48 year.

 

[JMR]

No not at all. 2015 the OL went from putrid to just piss poor. Enough of a change when combined with the quick rhyme passing change to really rev up the offense. You seem to claim there never was a change to a quicker get the ball out offense, it was all about the better OL. That OL still sucked, which is why the Seahawks blow it up and started from scratch in 2016.

And this is just anecdotal subjective jargon that doesn't mean a thing.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And this is just anecdotal subjective jargon that doesn't mean a thing.

Pete basic offense is to pound the ball then go deep, similar to Al Davis in some regards, except he incorporated a mobile QB in the equation. In 2015 Pete made a fundamental change in his offense, he changed the passing offense to quickly get the ball out of the QB hands. If the OL was up to it, I believe he would like to revert to his go to offense and go deep. I don't think the OL is up to that, just hoping they perform noticeably better then last season and think the quick rhythm passing needs to be a part of the offense.
Sorry if you think that quick rhythm offense is a fairy tale.

 

[chf]

And this is just anecdotal subjective jargon that doesn't mean a thing.

In fairness, at the time Pete said a LOT about getting the ball our faster and in rhythm. And he was quite careful to make EVERYONE responsible, QB, receivers, and O line.

 

[JMR]

Pete basic offense is to pound the ball then go deep, similar to Al Davis in some regards, except he incorporated a mobile QB in the equation. In 2015 Pete made a fundamental change in his offense, he changed the passing offense to quickly get the ball out of the QB hands. If the OL was up to it, I believe he would like to revert to his go to offense and go deep. I don't think the OL is up to that, just hoping they perform noticeably better then last season and think the quick rhythm passing needs to be a part of the offense.
Sorry if you think that quick rhythm offense is a fairy tale.

Yeehaw. Go Hawks.

 

[JMR]

In fairness, at the time Pete said a LOT about getting the ball our faster and in rhythm. And he was quite careful to make EVERYONE responsible, QB, receivers, and O line.

Well, Pete also said the key to it all was the improvement of the OL, but I've been told talking about the OL was just deflection.

 

[dude82]

In fairness, at the time Pete said a LOT about getting the ball our faster and in rhythm. And he was quite careful to make EVERYONE responsible, QB, receivers, and O line.

I think there needs to be a distinction made between getting the ball out quickly and getting it out quicker. That might be where the communication breakdown is on this thread. The Seahawks have had trouble getting the ball out of Wilson's hands on passing plays at a consistent pace, whether it's due to terrible pass protection or Wilson trying to make plays on his own because he doesn't trust his protection to be there, even when it has shown improvement over the course of a season. Rhythm is just another word for consistent pace and I think, given the issues that the Hawks have had with getting the ball out with any rhythm, that when they have had rhythm in the passing game, the passes looked quick compared to when they had no rhythm. I'm sure Carroll wants the ball out in a certain amount of time, but I don't think we're gonna be looking at a New England Patriots/early 90's Bills type of quickness. It just has to be better than it has been for most of the last three seasons and it has to be consistent.

 

[chf]

I think there needs to be a distinction made between getting the ball out quickly and getting it out quicker. That might be where the communication breakdown is on this thread. The Seahawks have had trouble getting the ball out of Wilson's hands on passing plays at a consistent pace, whether it's due to terrible pass protection or Wilson trying to make plays on his own because he doesn't trust his protection to be there, even when it has shown improvement over the course of a season. Rhythm is just another word for consistent pace and I think, given the issues that the Hawks have had with getting the ball out with any rhythm, that when they have had rhythm in the passing game, the passes looked quick compared to when they had no rhythm. I'm sure Carroll wants the ball out in a certain amount of time, but I don't think we're gonna be looking at a New England Patriots/early 90's Bills type of quickness. It just has to be better than it has been for most of the last three seasons and it has to be consistent.

I think Pete's philosophy is always to at least TRY big chunk plays, which can irrevocably change game momentum. They also take longer to develop.

I think it's fair to say that even those big chunk plays can be called within the rhythm of the game (ie: on 2nd and short on play action)

What the last half of 15 showed me was that Wilson was not only CAPABLE of running a quick throwing Offence, but that he could excel at it (he was putting up alltime #'s.) Was the time out his hand lower or equal to Brady's or Kelly's? Have no idea. It was certainly out faster than it had ever been before.

 

[JMR]

I think Pete's philosophy is always to at least TRY big chunk plays, which can irrevocably change game momentum. They also take longer to develop.

I think it's fair to say that even those big chunk plays can be called within the rhythm of the game (ie: on 2nd and short on play action)

What the last half of 15 showed me was that Wilson was not only CAPABLE of running a quick throwing Offence, but that he could excel at it (he was putting up alltime #'s.) Was the time out his hand lower or equal to Brady's or Kelly's? Have no idea. It was certainly out faster than it had ever been before.

When the O is going good, the ground game is effective enough to set up the play action to take those big shots down field. When it's clicking, RW can stand in the pocket for a couple beats and hit the 1st or 2nd guy without having to bail. The OL is the enabler in both circumstances.

 

[chf]

When the O is going good, the ground game is effective enough to set up the play action to take those big shots down field. When it's clicking, RW can stand in the pocket for a couple beats and hit the 1st or 2nd guy without having to bail. The OL is the enabler in both circumstances.

I know we've had versions of this conversation before. I think it's kinda' a chicken/egg deal. O line hold their blocks a bit longer, Russ makes quicker decisions (taking the swing pass to Procise right away). O starts to get some rhythm, and off we go.

I'm quite optimistic we'll see the team get back to that this year.

 

[JMR]

I know we've had versions of this conversation before. I think it's kinda' a chicken/egg deal. O line hold their blocks a bit longer, Russ makes quicker decisions (taking the swing pass to Procise right away). O starts to get some rhythm, and off we go.

I'm quite optimistic we'll see the team get back to that this year.

Yeah, I guess I just feel -- and maybe I'm in the minority -- that "getting it out quicker" is an output and not an input. The input is better pass protection and overall line play. I think the OL is poised to do that with the experience gained last year, return of 4 of the 5, and add of Joeckel (not a world beater but more talent than Gilliam for sure). And I share the optimism about getting back to the offense we want to see.

 

[chf]

Yeah, I guess I just feel -- and maybe I'm in the minority -- that "getting it out quicker" is an output and not an input. The input is better pass protection and overall line play. I think the OL is poised to do that with the experience gained last year, return of 4 of the 5, and add of Joeckel (not a world beater but more talent than Gilliam for sure). And I share the optimism about getting back to the offense we want to see.

I remember listening to Pete wax poetic (ESPN morning show podcast?) on how everyone had to do their part. He was putting onus on Russ to make faster decisions, be more decisive, and obviously , trying to get the O line to do their part too.

What you said upthread about a beat or two is exactly right, and that beat can come from either side of the equation. But in the main, I don't disagree, the Oline is the biggest single factor.

 

[JMR]

I remember listening to Pete wax poetic (ESPN morning show podcast?) on how everyone had to do their part. He was putting onus on Russ to make faster decisions, be more decisive, and obviously , trying to get the O line to do their part too.

What you said upthread about a beat or two is exactly right, and that beat can come from either side of the equation. But in the main, I don't disagree, the Oline is the biggest single factor.

yeah, I think it's good leadership on Pete's part to spread the blame and not just browbeat the usual suspects. Russell will of course put blame on himself when things don't work for the same reason. It's what good leaders do.