Eddie Lacy

[Tech_God]

Wilson will never be a good pocket passer until we can get an O-line that can at least perform at a semi-pro level.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Wilson will never be a good pocket passer until we can get an O-line that can at least perform at a semi-pro level.

He's already shown he can be a good pocket passer even with a bad OL...in the 2015 season.

 

[Screamin12th]

Personally feel the offense will/would be better if RW became a pocket passer. Seeing him get damaged last season was distressing. Not smart to wait until his physical abilities decline to have him him take the obvious step to being a more complete QB . Better that he becomes a pocket passer that still has the ability to bust a game winning run if necessary. Seahawks have the weapons, use them.

We need Wilson to be a weapon not only in passing. What the Hawks need though is a MUCH BETTER OLINE and THAT will keep him healthy. He was in the pocket when Suh stepped on him as he tried to roll away from the pressure. He hurt his Knee because he couldn't run on that flat tire allowing a defender to grab him where he would have normally got away. Wilson is not a fast guy but fast enough ( 4.55 ) and i believe he will still run around a 4.55-4.6 when he is 35. It's not his speed that gets him out of trouble it's his knack of avoiding people. He will be even MORE deadly if he isn't avoiding someone on 80% of his drop backs.

You want Wilson to be a pocket passer and when the pocket holds up he is. The ISSUE is not Wilson the issue is the oline and Cable. He is one of the top rated Pocket passers in the league and that says a lot for someone that rarely has a pocket to pass out of. Unless Cable finds some coaching magic or the team brings in a Oline coach that can teach these kids we may suffer watching Wilson run for his life his whole career and retire early because of injuries.

In 2015 the hawks went to a quick passing game and the oline held up well enough to allow that to work. Last season not even the quick passing game was allowing him to avoid pressure. People were on top of him before he planted his back foot. Can't use a quick passing attack if the defense is ontop of your QB even quicker.

 

[chf]

He got hurt in the first fucking game. Don't re-invent the history please.

 

[PolarVortex]

Personally feel the offense will/would be better if RW became a pocket passer. Seeing him get damaged last season was distressing. Not smart to wait until his physical abilities decline to have him him take the obvious step to being a more complete QB . Better that he becomes a pocket passer that still has the ability to bust a game winning run if necessary. Seahawks have the weapons, use them.

I think the offense will be better if Wilson stops rubbing shoulders with celebrities and remembers that he is a football player.

 

[chf]

I think the offense will be better if Wilson stops rubbing shoulders with celebrities and remembers that he is a football player.

Meh. Is there a guy who works harder than Wilson does? If he'd gone all Hollywood, and was boozing it up and not putting in the work, then yeah, sure.

He doesn't have to be a monk. NFL history is littered with QB's who were 'stars' off the gridiron too.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

In 2015 the hawks went to a quick passing game and the oline held up well enough to allow that to work. Last season not even the quick passing game was allowing him to avoid pressure.

Yes the OL needs to better then last year for any thing to work, but don't recall the Seahawks trying the quick passing game last year.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I've heard that chestnut from several posters. Can someone tell me why? The risk is real, almost every running QB last year ended with serious injuries.



Better to do it while he still has his mobility and teams still have to scheme for it and at age 28 think it's overdue already. Being a elite QB means throwing the football, not running with. Heard Wilson say many times he's rather not run with the ball. Heard Pete last off season talking about Wilson taking the next step. I do believe he too was planning for RW to become more of a passer then runner, but things just didn't pan out right with the number of injuries to the RBs and the OL.

Lastly I firmly believe the offense will be better with RW staying in the pocket. Not every single time, but bailing from the pocket should be the exception not the rule.

If you game plan for injuries, the offense is going to be scaled way back to vanilla and that doesn't cut it in the NFL. There's a risk on any pass play or hand off that RW could get hurt but you can't think like that. He's only 28 and that's still young so use his full potential.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

If you game plan for injuries, the offense is going to be scaled way back to vanilla and that doesn't cut it in the NFL. There's a risk on any pass play or hand off that RW could get hurt but you can't think like that. He's only 28 and that's still young so use his full potential.

I don't think asking him to be more a pocket passer equals game planning for injuries. Pocket passers are the norm. The NFL changed their rules to make passing a advantage......

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I don't think asking him to be more a pocket passer equals game planning for injuries. Pocket passers are the norm. The NFL changed their rules to make passing a advantage......

Asking him to be more a pocket passer is not using his full abilities. I saw it first hand with Mcnabb when Reid turned him into a pocket passer and wasn't as dominate as he was when he was a scrambler/passer.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Asking him to be more a pocket passer is not using his full abilities. I saw it first hand with Mcnabb when Reid turned him into a pocket passer and wasn't as dominate as he was when he was a scrambler/passer.

RW would be much better then McNabb as a pocket passer IMO. You can't point at McNabb and use that for others. Each is a different and I s casecby case.

 

[Screamin12th]

Yes the OL needs to better then last year for any thing to work, but don't recall the Seahawks trying the quick passing game last year.

wasn't time for any quick passing haha. Wilson last season was getting the ball out of his hands at his fastest rate to date. That had a lot to do with injuries to him and the chain link fence they tried to use as a dam. I wouldn't call it a quick passing game i would call it a panic passing game for the 2016 season. Now in 2015 that was a nice quick passing game.

*edited to show numbers i JUST found.
Russell Wilson time to throw (snap to release):
2012: 3.37
2013: 3.18
2014: 3.20
2015: 2.98
2016: 2.54

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

RW would be much better then McNabb as a pocket passer IMO. You can't point at McNabb and use that for others. Each is a different and I s casecby case.

Mcnabb is an example of what I don't want the Seahawks to do to RW. Maximize is talents while they still can.

 

[JMR]

Yes the OL needs to better then last year for any thing to work, but don't recall the Seahawks trying the quick passing game last year.

This may be it -- you're just not recalling very well. RW had his lowest air yards per attempt, tied for lowest yds/att, and 2nd highest comp % in his career last year.

At some point you need to bring some facts to the table to support the anecdotal evidence and hyperbole, or it just seems like you're saying stuff just to say stuff.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

At some point you need to bring some facts to the table to support the anecdotal evidence and hyperbole, or it just seems like you're saying stuff just to say stuff.

Pretty dead time of year for NFL fans. I was in fact just shooting the breeze on something I'd like to see happen ( see RW focus more on staying in the pocket and if needed get the ball out quickly ). Didn't realize I needed a bunch of stats and things, but I'll work on that.

This may be it -- you're just not recalling very well. RW had his lowest air yards per attempt, tied for lowest yds/att, and 2nd highest comp % in his career last year.

I see your stats and fail to see how they show that the Seahawks were using a quick passing attack last year, sounds more like dump off passes to me...short throws, low yardage per attempt obviously you get a high % of completions.

However I was intrigued by your stats about air time and such, so I googled them ( been nice if you had provided a link).

Quarterback Air Yards: 2016 NFL Season

Turns our RW was #7 in the league in air yards. What's that mean? IDK. All I know is that 2016 offense looked nothing like the offense in 2015 when they switched to using a passing offense that focused on getting the ball out quickly. I rather liked what I saw RW do in 2015, but that's just me I guess.

 

[Screamin12th]

Turns our RW was #7 in the league in air yards. What's that mean? IDK. All I know is that 2016 offense looked nothing like the offense in 2015 when they switched to using a passing offense that focused on getting the ball out quickly. I rather liked what I saw RW do in 2015, but that's just me I guess.

No you are right the 2015 Offense was better but heck that has a lot to do with Wilson exploding in the second half, he was with out a doubt the NFL MVP in the second half of the season in 2015 and in my eyes was WAY better than Cam all season long. I think we all would like to see him play at that level but some times we need to understand that players wont always play at a MVP level all the time lol. The 2015 Offense was scoring 26.4 PPG #4 in the NFL, where as the 2016 offense had 22.1 and was #18 HUGE difference. This is more because of the massive pile of crap we had for protection and Russell's injuries in 2016. Just goes to show you how important even having a average Oline is. In 2015 from something like game 9 on the line was ok. Ok not good not great but ok last season they were the worst oline we have ever seen, and since Cable has been here we have seen probably the 3 or 4 WORST olines in Seahawks HISTORY!

 

[JMR]

Pretty dead time of year for NFL fans. I was in fact just shooting the breeze on something I'd like to see happen ( see RW focus more on staying in the pocket and if needed get the ball out quickly ). Didn't realize I needed a bunch of stats and things, but I'll work on that.



I see your stats and fail to see how they show that the Seahawks were using a quick passing attack last year, sounds more like dump off passes to me...short throws, low yardage per attempt obviously you get a high % of completions.

Doesn't it just seem logical that shorter passes would be coming out of the QB's hands quicker than longer ones? Lots of fans say we changed to a quicker passing O in 2015, but I disagree with that. There was just much better pass protection as the season went on, and RW wasn't having to bail as much. He was able to sit in a pocket and let it fly. He had his highest YPA of his career that season. He also wasn't hobbled with 2 leg injuries. I really don't think the offense changed much at all that year. It was certainly more effective, but that doesn't necessarily mean we were executing a different strategy. We had street free agents carrying the ball in the back half of that season after Rawls went down, so of course it was all on RW.

 

[blstoker]

Pretty dead time of year for NFL fans. I was in fact just shooting the breeze on something I'd like to see happen ( see RW focus more on staying in the pocket and if needed get the ball out quickly ). Didn't realize I needed a bunch of stats and things, but I'll work on that.



I see your stats and fail to see how they show that the Seahawks were using a quick passing attack last year, sounds more like dump off passes to me...short throws, low yardage per attempt obviously you get a high % of completions.

However I was intrigued by your stats about air time and such, so I googled them ( been nice if you had provided a link).

Quarterback Air Yards: 2016 NFL Season

Turns our RW was #7 in the league in air yards. What's that mean? IDK. All I know is that 2016 offense looked nothing like the offense in 2015 when they switched to using a passing offense that focused on getting the ball out quickly. I rather liked what I saw RW do in 2015, but that's just me I guess.

Year - Yards - YAC - AIRY - AY/A - AIR% - YAC%
2012 - 3118 - 1317 - 1801 - 4.58 - 57.8 - 42.2
2013 - 3357 - 1553 - 1804 - 4.43 - 53.7 - 46.3
2014 - 3475 - 1960 - 1515 - 3.35 - 43.6 - 56.4
2015 - 4024 - 1818 - 2206 - 4.57 - 54.8 - 45.2
2016 - 4219 - 1776 - 2443 - 4.47 - 57.9 - 42.1
Tot - 18193 - 8424 - 9769 - 4.28 - 53.7 - 46.3

Other than 2014, the numbers weren't that different than in years past. Actually, his air yards per attempt were down from 2015. Yes, his % of total yard being air yards was a career high, but that doesn't mean much more than the possibility that our receivers weren't as effective in getting YAC. Personally, I thought the offense did a decent job of mixing short yardage passes with attempts downfield.

My feelings about Wilson running are that I would think it counterproductive to handcuff one part of his game. Don't make him into something he isn't. Yeah, cut back on designed runs (don't do away with them, but maybe only 1 or 2 a game), but give him free reign to take off if it looks like the thing to do. He still ran nearly 6 times a game during him historic stretch to close out 2015.

 

[chf]

What allowing Russ to freelance does is simply demoralize defenses. The D can play nearly perfectly, coverage downfield, pass rush that's going to get there, and BOOM, Wilson escapes and runs 20 yards on 3rd and 10. The D starts to get frustrated, starts to press, starts to burn too much energy, and takes themselves right out of the game by the 4th quarter.

The other QB that's surprisingly good at this is Aaron Rodgers. He doesn't run much, but he's good at it when he does, and he always seems to pick times when the extended drive is vital to a win.

Nobody ever says that Rodgers ain't a pocket QB.

The other element that gets overlooked is the beat or two that doubt in D lineman's minds gives the offence. That beat or two that can lead to the WR coming open over the middle for a big gain. That beat or two that allows Wilson to check down to an outlet target resulting in a big gain.

That comes because they don't 'pin their ears back,' and just rush. They have to think about Wilson escaping and running.

Works the other way too. Our D has a WAAAY easier time in late down long yardage against a statue like Romo, than against a guy like Newton. Now imagine how hard it would be to play against Newton if he had Russ's ability to throw the ball with touch and accuracy too.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

My feelings about Wilson running are that I would think it counterproductive to handcuff one part of his game. Don't make him into something he isn't. Yeah, cut back on designed runs (don't do away with them, but maybe only 1 or 2 a game), but give him free reign to take off if it looks like the thing to do. He still ran nearly 6 times a game during him historic stretch to close out 2015.

I won't want RW to never take off, would just like it to be the secondary part of his game. What I remember about that historic stretch was the passing.

Pete Carroll: Russell Wilson is “best he’s been” from the pocket

“I think the pocket being so consistently solid for him makes a huge difference,” Carroll said. “The rhythm, since the (bye week), we’ve really tried to feature a fast rhythm and making sure he’s really got a chance to get the ball out fast to keep the pressure off of the guys up front. All of that has happened with more earnest because of how the start was. I think it’s a combination, but I really think the guys up front are really improving and that’s what’s made the difference for us.”

The part in bold is something I'd like to see this season. Feel if the Seahawks do that again there won't be the big need to bail out of the pocket so quickly. I don't think the offense really had a chance to function last year with all the injuries, especially to RW, but also the entire RB corp and the OL which required constant shuffling.

Hoping for a big season from the Seahawks this season. It's important, because very soon ( year or two ) a lot of the key defensive players could be gone. Need that offense to pick up the slack, if need be.