Eddie Lacy

[HaroldSeattle]

I'm a fan of read-option in moderation as well. Most of the time in sport, the more you use something, the less effective it becomes. It's already happened across the league with the r/o. The "wildcat" had a pretty short lifespan as well.

RW is a different animal though. Few QBs -- even the "running" ones -- can do what he can do. Use his talents to help the team win. And it's not that he isn't fantastic pocket passer, because he's proven that he is. But when the OL is as bad as ours has been, you gotta try to compensate by taking advantage of other strengths.

Yeah RW isn't the typical mobile QB. I think of Fran Tarkenson as the closes thing to him. Once read where a defender told another defender to get up after missing tacking Fran, because Fran would be back shortly. Still as good as RW is on the move, time to learn how to navigate moving within the pocket and time to have some hot reads for when the pass rush is coming on strong, evolve to a more sophisticated offense.

 

[Uhsplit]

As long as he he is healthy? Is that wise? A QB running the ball is for the young, eventually they got to evolve to a passing QB or fail IMO. RG, Kaep, Cam, Mariota to name a few running QBs should serve as examples, evolve or fail. Remember Steve Young? He wasn't great until he evoked. RW is very capable of being a pocket passer and excelling at it. At the age of 28 I think it's time. For sure the Seahawks can't count on his running abilities long term. There is a reason some QBs last close to 40, but you start worrying about RBs at 28. It's about the punishment you take carrying the rock.

I'm sure there is a good reason why I m not the HC, but if I was I am using every weapon I have to win a game.

 

[JMR]

Yeah RW isn't the typical mobile QB. I think of Fran Tarkenson as the closes thing to him. Once read where a defender told another defender to get up after missing tacking Fran, because Fran would be back shortly. Still as good as RW is on the move, time to learn how to navigate moving within the pocket and time to have some hot reads for when the pass rush is coming on strong, evolve to a more sophisticated offense.

Well, I don't think it's a matter of RW not understanding how to play well enough from the pocket. He has proven already he can do that at an elite level. The issue, in my opinion, is that there isn't a pocket to pass from often enough. We have to have a line that can pass pro well enough for him to trust the protection and not bail. It's easy to sit here and type it on a screen, but when you are a sitting duck with 300 pound men trying to smash you to bits.....

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

No matter, you carry the rock enough times the odds catch up with you. RW is perfectly capable of being a pocket passer and excelling at it. A running QB is for the young, name one running QB that lasted into his thirties, then think of those that last damn near to 40. Always a pocket passer. Yeah I get how much smarter RW is over say a RG, but at the end of the day you carry the rock enough the odds catch up with you. Is RW as nimble as he was as a rookie? I don't think so myself and that nimbleness is only going to decrease. Let's not wait until injuries force the Seahawks hand, get ahead of the curve and run a more traditional offense. They got the weapons, let's make use of them.

I agree RW is very capable of being a great pocket passer but makes him more dangerous is his ability to move the pocket. Our weapons are more dangerous when RW and the offense is unpredictable. Yes he could get hurt on the run but he could/has gotten hurt in the pocket. PC can't game plan the unknown (when injuries strike) but he can game plan the known and we know what RW is. Probably 5 yrs from now we'll be thinking differently but as of today RW is still young, nimble and effective when he runs.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Well, I don't think it's a matter of RW not understanding how to play well enough from the pocket. He has proven already he can do that at an elite level. The issue, in my opinion, is that there isn't a pocket to pass from often enough. We have to have a line that can pass pro well enough for him to trust the protection and not bail. It's easy to sit here and type it on a screen, but when you are a sitting duck with 300 pound men trying to smash you to bits.....

Guess I disagree some what. I don't think RW has shown great pocket awareness myself. Think he could work on that area a lot. Yeah the bad OL is given for the reason for him bailing, but honestly I've seen plays where if he simply moved up in the pocket, rather then bail he could of made a play from the pocket. Seemed like Packers were on the TV a lot last year. Watching Rogers work the pocket was eye opening. He seemed to be able to look down field and still, be aware of where the pass rusher was and simply keep the OL between him and the rusher. He often had time enough to eat a sandwich, due to his pocket awareness.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I agree RW is very capable of being a great pocket passer but makes him more dangerous is his ability to move the pocket. Our weapons are more dangerous when RW and the offense is unpredictable. Yes he could get hurt on the run but he could/has gotten hurt in the pocket. PC can't game plan the unknown (when injuries strike) but he can game plan the known and we know what RW is. Probably 5 yrs from now we'll be thinking differently but as of today RW is still young, nimble and effective when he runs.

No he's not nearly as nimble as he was as a rookie. Time is right to evolve now, got the weapons, use them.

 

[JMR]

Guess I disagree some what. I don't think RW has shown great pocket awareness myself. Think he could work on that area a lot. Yeah the bad OL is given for the reason for him bailing, but honestly I've seen plays where if he simply moved up in the pocket, rather then bail he could of made a play from the pocket. Seemed like Packers were on the TV a lot last year. Watching Rogers work the pocket was eye opening. He seemed to be able to look down field and still, be aware of where the pass rusher was and simply keep the OL between him and the rusher. He often had time enough to eat a sandwich, due to his pocket awareness.

So you don't think RW making an early decision to leave the pocket has anything to do with not trusting the crappy OL? He's the #2 rated passer in the history of the NFL. You cannot get to that point without being a superior pocket passer. And with GB, completely different level with OLs. It's not even close.

 

[JMR]

No he's not nearly as nimble as he was as a rookie. Time is right to evolve now, got the weapons, use them.

Well, having 2 leg injuries may have something to do with that. I don't think were saying this a year ago.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

No he's not nearly as nimble as he was as a rookie. Time is right to evolve now, got the weapons, use them.

First 4 years he looked the same, and last year it took a Suh stomp to slow him down. Now fully healthy lets see how he does.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

So you don't think RW making an early decision to leave the pocket has anything to do with not trusting the crappy OL? He's the #2 rated passer in the history of the NFL. You cannot get to that point without being a superior pocket passer. And with GB, completely different level with OLs. It's not even close.

Oh GB had a better OL last year then the Seahawks no doubt, but that hasn't always been the case for Rogers. He's had some pretty crappy OL over the years. Same for Brady. So I'm done with using a poor OL as a excuse. Frankly the majority of NFL teams could use the same excuse, it's a league wide problem ( crappy OL) their are ways to compensate with out bailing from the pocket. Good pocket awareness ( see Rogers as a example) getting the ball out of QB hands quickly ( like the 2015 season). Love RW, but moving within the pocket to avoid a pass rush is a weakness for him IMO.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

First 4 years he looked the same, and last year it took a Suh stomp to slow him down. Now fully healthy lets see how he does.

You didn't hear how he looked a bit chunky last off season? He was you know. Getting married and older does that to you. Not to say he's over the hill, but he's definitely not the rookie who could spend all his time at the office. Time to evolve, he's up to it.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

You didn't hear how he looked a bit chunky last off season? He was you know. Getting married and older does that to you. Not to say he's over the hill, but he's definitely not the rookie who could spend all his time at the office. Time to evolve, he's up to it.

If he put on a few pounds he can easily shed them, that's what they're conditioned to do.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

If he put on a few pounds he can easily shed them, that's what they're conditioned to do.

Sure he can shed the pounds, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking RW can cheat Father Time. Let's not look at RW being a pocket passer as a negative. Dang just look at all the weapons he has, becoming apocket passer should be seen as a good thing IMO.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Sure he can shed the pounds, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking RW can cheat Father Time. Let's not look at RW being a pocket passer as a negative. Dang just look at all the weapons he has, becoming apocket passer should be seen as a good thing IMO.

You're looking at this as if RW is in his early thirties. Why take away a part of his game when its still successful in winning games? I would feel different if RW was putting himself in harms way trying to get that extra yard but he doesn't. His all around game of scrambling, passing on the run and passing inside the pocket is what makes him dangerous. No need to change it until we see a serious decline in his play.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You're looking at this as if RW is in his early thirties. Why take away a part of his game when its still successful in winning games? I would feel different if RW was putting himself in harms way trying to get that extra yard but he doesn't. His all around game of scrambling, passing on the run and passing inside the pocket is what makes him dangerous. No need to change it until we see a serious decline in his play.

Personally feel the offense will/would be better if RW became a pocket passer. Seeing him get damaged last season was distressing. Not smart to wait until his physical abilities decline to have him him take the obvious step to being a more complete QB . Better that he becomes a pocket passer that still has the ability to bust a game winning run if necessary. Seahawks have the weapons, use them.

 

[chf]

RW will not always be the 'beat linebackers around the edge' guy. But he will always be mobile barring catastrophic injury. A great example of that would be Doug Flutie. He was moving around in the pocket LATE in his career too. He played a LONG time. Thankfully for us, Russel didn't get exiled to Canada to prove he could play the game and see over linemen.

Does he need to continue to get better at staying home? Sure. (see 2015 second half) Will he still demoralize the shit out of opponents by taking off and running for 1st downs when there's no receivers open? Absolutely. And that's a good thing.

There's not only 2 choices, (statue pocket guy and runner).

Wilson is pretty unique.

 

[JMR]

Russell's unique ability to scramble out of trouble to keep plays alive, throw on the run to make big gains, or keep drives going by ripping off big chunks of yardage on the ground is one of the main reasons teams fear him so much and why he's so difficult to stop. So yeah, let's go ahead and take that part of his game away from him now because in 5 or 6 years he won't be as good at it. Makes total sense.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Russell's unique ability to scramble out of trouble to keep plays alive, throw on the run to make big gains, or keep drives going by ripping off big chunks of yardage on the ground is one of the main reasons teams fear him so much and why he's so difficult to stop. So yeah, let's go ahead and take that part of his game away from him now because in 5 or 6 years he won't be as good at it. Makes total sense.

Guess I'll just agree to disagree.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Personally feel the offense will/would be better if RW became a pocket passer. Seeing him get damaged last season was distressing. Not smart to wait until his physical abilities decline to have him him take the obvious step to being a more complete QB . Better that he becomes a pocket passer that still has the ability to bust a game winning run if necessary. Seahawks have the weapons, use them.

Can't worry about injuries and the decline of his play is still years off. Don't force his hand in being a pocket passer until the time is right and right now his abilities still keep him unpredictable which keeps defenses on its heels.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Can't worry about injuries

I've heard that chestnut from several posters. Can someone tell me why? The risk is real, almost every running QB last year ended with serious injuries.

. Don't force his hand in being a pocket passer until the time is right

Better to do it while he still has his mobility and teams still have to scheme for it and at age 28 think it's overdue already. Being a elite QB means throwing the football, not running with. Heard Wilson say many times he's rather not run with the ball. Heard Pete last off season talking about Wilson taking the next step. I do believe he too was planning for RW to become more of a passer then runner, but things just didn't pan out right with the number of injuries to the RBs and the OL.

Lastly I firmly believe the offense will be better with RW staying in the pocket. Not every single time, but bailing from the pocket should be the exception not the rule.