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Do you agree with the selection committee's make up?

4down20

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Two different things really.

Rules for the committee to have to follow isn't the same as change how we pick our 4.

I'm not married in any way to the committee and have said as much. I simply find some of the extreme 'solutions' troubling. I don't want to see an expansion of playoffs, but I'm entirely open to looking at improving how we get those 4.

I wanted to keep the BCS formula and just use those top 4 and didn't like the committee idea at all.

But I can't complain until they actually fuck up and I'm sure as hell not going to support things that are worse.
 

WizardHawk

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Don't you mean "come up with something that is better" THAT THEY WILL ACTUALLY DO?

There have been many, many suggestions that would make it better, but the conferences/schools/CFP, etal would rather keep status quo.

Hell, one of 'em is even your suggestion and I'm all for it. Do away with divisions! That'd be a good start.

Mine is do away with cupcake games.

I see absolutely no movement toward either or any other ones that just might work..
If we are in fantasy land I'd go back to no conferences larger than 10 teams. Fixes a lot of issues quite simply.

Won't happen though so we are left with all sorts of issues that won't be solved.

We can't say 'never' either as the inevitable crash of the current economic system when ESPN and the cable TV market implodes will for sure leave every change possibility on the table. Still doubt the conference shrink at that time. More like an end or entire blow up of the NCAA organization potentially and should lead to a redo of the playoff organization (as their money will be dead) and likely quite a few of the bowls.
 

WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE

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Two different things really.

Rules for the committee to have to follow isn't the same as change how we pick our 4.

I'm not married in any way to the committee and have said as much. I simply find some of the extreme 'solutions' troubling. I don't want to see an expansion of playoffs, but I'm entirely open to looking at improving how we get those 4.

Very fair. We need to avoid passing the buck principle here. That's my big problem with people wanting to expand. So how are we going to pick the teams? That still becomes the question. People complain about the committee's bias, but at the time, they want them to pick the G5 CC and determine when a G5 program is worthy. Before the Auburn-Central Florida game for example, pretty much nobody thought (other than me. I picked UCF to win) the Knights had a shot at beating Auburn. The Knights ended up getting 10th place by the Coach's Poll and AP, and 12th by the playoff committee. It's pretty clear that the "experts" thought they were good, but never playoff caliber.

A better four team solution would be to do what the Big-10 wanted: Go with the four highest CCs, if ranked in the top 6. That means in 2016, the teams would have been Alabama, Clemson, Washington, and Penn State. I know Ohio State fans would get upset, but people would get it: All four won their conference. All four played a strong schedule. All four beat elite college football programs. In 2017, it would have meant, Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia, and Ohio State. If it was done in 2011, where we had LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma State, Stanford, Oregon, and Arkansas in the top 6. We would then have LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma State, and Oregon. That's definitely an idea on how to improve on the final four.
 

Deep Creek

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I enjoy them.

In fact, if I were to ever go to an Alabama game it would most likely be Alabama vs FCS as odd as that might sound.
Evidence says you are in the majority and me in the minority...because the stands are full of people that like to watch those slaughters.
 

NolePride

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I will agree with you here then. I am a big fan of conference championship status, but not a slave to it.

If we only did CCs, then my Notre Dame Irish would never get an opportunity to play for a National Championship.

We would be arguing that 8-5 Wisky would be more worthy than 11-1 Oregon in 2012. Yeah, I know it's a subjective view, but why would a team rated by the computers in the 5-7 range be more playoff worthy than a team rated in the 24-30 range.



Yes. No team should get a special tag. Everybody has to meet benchmarks.

In the NFL, NBA, NHL, College Hoops, College Baseball, College Volleyball, and so forth, allows in wildcards or at-large teams. It's not REALISTIC to take only conference champions.

Noles argument would be STRONGER if we went the Jim Harbaugh route. He suggests 16 teams and no conference championship game. In that case, all conference champions would be in, and we would put in 6 wildcards.

My apologies if I misunderstood your debate with Noles.

The remarks about your beloved ND were at the beginning. They and the rest of the Independents
need to find themselves a league to join if they want to compete for the NC.

What rivalries do you have that you would have to give up? Navy? That's the biggest charade
in CFB History. This "respect" you have for them because of how you two worked hand-in-hand
together in WWII, allowing them to use your campus to train Naval Officers. Spin at its finest.
You rented your campus to them and the Government built half the buildings on it at taxpayer
expense. And the only reason you have the respect for the Naval Academy is because Army was
offered your deal first and turned it down. And you did all of that so you could finance your
own football team. At a time when 40% of schools suspended their football programs you people
were traveling coast-to-coast playing.

Just join a league and you won't have to worry about being excluded.
 

WizardHawk

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The remarks about your beloved ND were at the beginning. They and the rest of the Independents
need to find themselves a league to join if they want to compete for the NC.

What rivalries do you have that you would have to give up? Navy? That's the biggest charade
in CFB History. This "respect" you have for them because of how you two worked hand-in-hand
together in WWII, allowing them to use your campus to train Naval Officers. Spin at its finest.
You rented your campus to them and the Government built half the buildings on it at taxpayer
expense. And the only reason you have the respect for the Naval Academy is because Army was
offered your deal first and turned it down. And you did all of that so you could finance your
own football team. At a time when 40% of schools suspended their football programs you people
were traveling coast-to-coast playing.

Just join a league and you won't have to worry about being excluded.
If ND joined the ACC their annual rivalry games with USC and Stanford wouldn't count at all toward a title run in your world because OOC games are entirely fine with you to ignore and not count toward finding who is the best team.
 

NolePride

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If ND joined the ACC their annual rivalry games with USC and Stanford wouldn't count at all toward a title run in your world because OOC games are entirely fine with you to ignore and not count toward finding who is the best team.

So what?

The playoffs will show me who the best team is.

I don't need to know who the best team is in September...Just after the final game of the
season.

And you are hung up on this crap.

If I win my league title...I'm better than everybody in my league. That's why they are giving
me the trophy. If I win the playoffs...I've proven I'm the best in the Country and I've proven
it on the field.

You don't need these artificial stats to discover S.O.S. What the hell does that matter? It means
nothing in a true playoff system. I win my league title I'm going into a playoff with the other
Champs of 9 leagues and we're going to decide it on the field of play.

I don't understand what you are afraid of. Could it be, that you are terrified that Boise State
might kick your ass in week 2 of the playoffs?
 

WizardHawk

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So what?

The playoffs will show me who the best team is.

I don't need to know who the best team is in September...Just after the final game of the
season.

And you are hung up on this crap.

If I win my league title...I'm better than everybody in my league. That's why they are giving
me the trophy. If I win the playoffs...I've proven I'm the best in the Country and I've proven
it on the field.

You don't need these artificial stats to discover S.O.S. What the hell does that matter? It means
nothing in a true playoff system. I win my league title I'm going into a playoff with the other
Champs of 9 leagues and we're going to decide it on the field of play.

I don't understand what you are afraid of. Could it be, that you are terrified that Boise State
might kick your ass in week 2 of the playoffs?
So fear to you is the ONLY reason anyone could ever disagree with you? :L

I've clearly stated why at least a dozen times. I guess you either just aren't reading or don't get simple concepts.

I'm entirely more concerned with the intensity of the regular season than who or how we crown a champion. My agenda is preserving the edge of your seat feeling in big time college football. Your agenda would make every big time cross conference match ho hum as they have zero impact and zero reason to care. They become irrelevant exhibition games.

Your idea entirely and completely ruins the regular season of college football. Period. Stop. It ends there for me.

And you have to get over this notion that winning your league means you are better than everyone in that league because that's not true as it stands right now. And it's a pipe dream that any sort of re-balancing of conference schedules is coming.

Last year Oregon and Washington didn't have to face USC in their regular season. The other 4 in the north did. There are examples in every one of these mega conferences of teams that have to face the harder teams from the other division, and those that skate by. That's not a minor point. You do not get a true champion that way. At all. Period.

Your ideas are dead in the water. It's funny you claim only people in fear of change don't agree with you as your agenda is purely driven out of some disdain over a system you can't even cite has done anything wrong to begin with. THAT'S coming from irrational fear. And the solution you want for a problem that doesn't exist is so extreme as to entirely blow up what makes college football so intense to begin with.
 

4down20

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Evidence says you are in the majority and me in the minority...because the stands are full of people that like to watch those slaughters.

It's cheap tickets for people who wouldn't be able to afford the bigger tickets. Good games to take kids too as well.
 

WizardHawk

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How many of those do we get a year?
If you include the yearly ones like ND vs USC and Stanford etc, normally quite a few. I really look forward in the early season to those gems in the sea of bullshit. If we had auto bids that entirely goes away and I likely wouldn't turn on a TV until the 4th week of the season. And since you can win a division with 2-3 losses easily in some years I just wouldn't have the same worry and drive I do now.

I'm not nearly as big of an NFL fan because of it. I do love the Seahawks, but there aren't many games I'm on the edge of my seat. You can lose 7 game and still win a SB. Losses just don't mean that much so the pressure doesn't feel the same at all. Maybe that's preferable for non adrenaline junkies. It's safer. More like watching a movie.

That decline has already happened. It's not nearly as intense as it was when one loss was almost a sure death nail. With an auto bid all but a handful of games will be nearly as dreary as most NFL games are.
 

WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE

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The remarks about your beloved ND were at the beginning. They and the rest of the Independents
need to find themselves a league to join if they want to compete for the NC.

What rivalries do you have that you would have to give up? Navy? That's the biggest charade
in CFB History. This "respect" you have for them because of how you two worked hand-in-hand
together in WWII, allowing them to use your campus to train Naval Officers. Spin at its finest.
You rented your campus to them and the Government built half the buildings on it at taxpayer
expense. And the only reason you have the respect for the Naval Academy is because Army was
offered your deal first and turned it down. And you did all of that so you could finance your
own football team. At a time when 40% of schools suspended their football programs you people
were traveling coast-to-coast playing.

Just join a league and you won't have to worry about being excluded.

No, no, no, no, no.

Notre Dame challenges the best every season, and joining a conference would only produce less profits and weaken our SOS.

I have no clue why you people moan about Notre Dame. Here's the fact: Notre Dame being independent and constantly "over-scheduling" puts us at a great disadvantage when it comes to the rankings.

We have already given up our rival to Michigan, now you want us to give up our rival to Navy, Stanford, and USC.

No thank you.
 

WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE

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If ND joined the ACC their annual rivalry games with USC and Stanford wouldn't count at all toward a title run in your world because OOC games are entirely fine with you to ignore and not count toward finding who is the best team.

:clap:

Exactly. He wants my Irish to play weaker competition and get rid of our rich cross-country scheduling. F that.
 

Deep Creek

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If you include the yearly ones like ND vs USC and Stanford etc, normally quite a few. I really look forward in the early season to those gems in the sea of bullshit. If we had auto bids that entirely goes away and I likely wouldn't turn on a TV until the 4th week of the season. And since you can win a division with 2-3 losses easily in some years I just wouldn't have the same worry and drive I do now.

I'm not nearly as big of an NFL fan because of it. I do love the Seahawks, but there aren't many games I'm on the edge of my seat. You can lose 7 game and still win a SB. Losses just don't mean that much so the pressure doesn't feel the same at all. Maybe that's preferable for non adrenaline junkies. It's safer. More like watching a movie.

That decline has already happened. It's not nearly as intense as it was when one loss was almost a sure death nail. With an auto bid all but a handful of games will be nearly as dreary as most NFL games are.
No we don't. Those good cross country games are few and far between. Not nearly enough. 2:1 or 3:1 "sea of bullshit" games versus good interconference games.

And I ain't on the edge of my seat for the frickin' slaughters they subject us to.
 

WizardHawk

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No we don't. They are few and far between. Not nearly enough. 2:1 or 3:1 "sea of bullshit" games versus good interconference games.

And I ain't on the edge of my seat for the frickin' slaughters they subject us to.
I tend to watch 3-4 games a day on a typical saturday that I'm home and never have a problem finding solid match ups to watch, even during the early season.
 

Deep Creek

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I tend to watch 3-4 games a day on a typical saturday that I'm home and never have a problem finding solid match ups to watch, even during the early season.
You might find one good cross country game versus 16 shitty ones.
 

potzer25

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no
 

NolePride

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You might find one good cross country game versus 16 shitty ones.

It's just smoke, Creek.

A CC Playoff would encourage more good match-ups not lessen them.

And OOC traditional rivals don't face each other worrying about a NC...they worry about
"Bragging Rights." Beating the people that you live with or work with everyday is far
more important than this other crap.
 

4down20

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It's just smoke, Creek.

A CC Playoff would encourage more good match-ups not lessen them.

And OOC traditional rivals don't face each other worrying about a NC...they worry about
"Bragging Rights." Beating the people that you live with or work with everyday is far
more important than this other crap.

What makes you think conference champions = best team in the conference?
 

WizardHawk

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It's just smoke, Creek.

A CC Playoff would encourage more good match-ups not lessen them.

And OOC traditional rivals don't face each other worrying about a NC...they worry about
"Bragging Rights." Beating the people that you live with or work with everyday is far
more important than this other crap.
So it encourages more good match ups (no evidence of that at all of course)

But rivalry games don't matter toward a championship anyway, it's just bragging rights.

You want to throw out at least 25% of all games as though they don't happen. And somehow suggest we will get better games. No, no we won't. Exhibition games will get you backups and JV sort of development at best. That's not better football, nor better games. And that is factually what would happen with your system.

So far you've not provided a single thing to back up your claims. It's all accusing people that are using sound logic and actual history of fear about blowing entirely up the game as we know it because YOU have unfounded biases against a current system you have yet to support a need for such drastic measures. More or less explain how you would get schools and the investors that currently prop up the bowl system to go along with all of the changes that would surely drop football revenue by at least 30%.

What you suggest is pure and total insanity.
 
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